Joyland Casino: Problem withdrawal request

[schankwart]

Interesting insight, John. Lets hear the winners side of view.

Definetely though the Casino needs to correct its behavior. There is NO doubt.

[TrixSlice]

I too played this deal, I made about over 1,000 in comps, but I didn't make thousands like the OP has. I made around 100 at this casino. They paid me back my deposit and will pay my winnings as soon as I send my driver's license. However, after checking, my account is still open and they did not change my transaction history. I find it disturbing that actual transaction history was changed as the original poster implied. If that's true, then any PlayTech casino can change the winnings of a big winner and the public would scream 'liar' when the winner cried. If we can get some kind of proof that actual transactions have been changed (since this might very well be a lie), maybe someone can contact PlayTech and let them know that Crown Solutions and Management are athorizing the changes of actual transaction logs! Highly undignified. Has any of Crown Solutions other casinos done something of this sort in the past? What other casinos does Crown Solutions own/operate?

[Vesuvio]

Altering transaction logs is pretty stunning, even for a Playtech casino. They must have realised they'd made a huge mistake and then desperately tried to sweep it under the carpet - somehow I think they might fail

As for the comp points - it's an interesting issue. They can't claim software error as all that's happened is a member of their staff put in the wrong conversion rate. You can't retroactively decide to pay out the "correct" number of comp points as that'd be like letting someone play BJ all evening with it paying out at 3:2 for a BJ. They finish off in profit and then you tell them actually you meant to pay out 6:5, so it turns out you owe us money instead.

I think a reputable on-line casino would just have to accept that they'd made a stupid error and take the losses, but it's going to be one hell of a fight to persuade an outfit like this of that. I suppose it depends whether they value their reputation or not.

Comp points can be debated but two certainties are: 1) altering transaction logs is unacceptable and has to be put right & 2) anyone who won without taking comp points into account must be paid those winnings.

[JohnGalt]

So just out of curiosity Vesuvio, if after I realized the casino's mistake I had started playing there non-stop for the entire week that this lasted and made almost $1 Million (which I easily could have done) would you feel they should pay me those winnings (converted comp points, that is)?

[Vesuvio]

Originally Posted by JohnGalt

So just out of curiosity Vesuvio, if after I realized the casino's mistake I had started playing there non-stop for the entire week that this lasted and made almost $1 Million (which I easily could have done) would you feel they should pay me those winnings (converted comp points, that is)?

Yes, just as a casino which offered the "wrong" odds on one of its games would also have to pay out. I don't see why the level of their incompetence or the amount of their losses makes any difference, unless they're poorly enough funded not to be able to pay (I doubt you'll find anyone's taken them for anything like $1 million).

[Cmaster]

I am in a similar boat with some of the posters in this thread.

On August 4th I signed up at Joyland Casino, deposited $500 and got a $808 signup bonus. I played aggressively, betting $50-$100/hand on Blackjack, played the wagering requirements a few times over, and ended up ~$2000. I was pretty happy with this -- it would've been my highest online casino win to date (I've played online only for a few months) and headed to the cashier. Went to comps section, clicked "Convert comps", and to my pleasant surprise saw something like $800 added to my balance. Ok, I admit it seemed weird, but hey -- who is going to complain about Christmas in August! I then went back, played a bit more, and cashed out a $3k profit (including probably another $300 in comp point conversions).

Well, apparently hitting the "Convert comps" points voided all my BJ winnings. Joyland casino returned me my $500 deposit saying that "I abused my gaming privileges". You see, it was my fault that some bonehead at Joyland entered a wrong conversion rate. Very clever -- I can see other casinos following their lead: "let's make some deathtrap button somewhere in the software, if a winner clicks on it, we'll just say he abused his gaming privileges! We don't have to pay him anything then!"

I am very angry right now. I did not break any rules, I played wagering requirements several times over, I didn't play any forbidden games, I didn't play any "risk-free" games. I put my money at risk, won with or without their screwup, and apparently had my winnings voided. They are the ones who are playing a no-risk game -- I would bet my house that they didn't void losses on that day and return the deposits to those who lost them.

I was called by Joyland, but told them that I will only correspond with them over email. I am awaiting for an email reply from them before I take this any further. If anyone from Joyland is reading this: I know you screwed up, and by now you probably know you screwed up, but it's not too late. Deal with me fairly and honestly, and you can fix this. I don't know if I am entititled to my comp points, I can see arguments for and against, but you have to pay my BJ winnings at least. If you don't I sincerely hope this will drive you out of business.

[BJesus]

Any reason why my PAB has not registered. They have since been in touch and promised to ring back today but I am still waiting.

I to have non comp related winnings that they have removed and altered transaction logs for this is not a lie.

They also denied my winnings from comp points. I was unaware of any problem 1% or 4% I would not notice. Also the bonus I took up was a high roller bonus which could well of entitled me to a higher rate of comp points.

I will be avoiding Playtech casino's until this is resolved. Also I hope other Playtech casino operators read this and see what damage has already been done to their reputation.

[jek187]

I'd just further like to add that I am owed well into 5 figures from Joyland. They locked my account, and I have been given no reason for why this is. I have saved all my emails with them, but nothing material has been stated. I do not know how many comp points I cashed, as I can't get into my account to check.

I am holding off until the 25th to PAB since Bryan is on vacation, but just thought I'd add yet another POed customer to this thread.

[ScurvyDog]

Be interesting to see how this plays out.

Given that online casinos' sole purpose is to prey on the weak and addicted, I hope that Joyland does the right thing, admits all of the issues were of their own doing, and pays out players what is owed to them, in full.

That said, I wouldn't hold my breath. Plenty of online merchants have mistakenly posted products on their websites that are listed at a fraction of what they would normally be, obviously listed in error. Those "deals" get posted and distributed widely, everyone and their monkey buys 30 of them, and the merchant ultimately says "Look, no deal, that was an obvious error and we're simply not going to honor it." and returns everyone money and possibly throws a $5 gift certificate their way.

It's more complicated than that, though, as I'm sure the size of the withdrawals in question are also directly related to the problems with the comp system, as savvy players could essentially freeroll with the comp money and be much more aggressive than normal with their targets.

If I deposited $1,000 into a Scottrade account, a computer glitch turned it $1,000,000, and I immediately invested it in some volatile stock (knowing I'd never be on the hook for the non-existent $1,000,000 no matter what happened), and flipped it an hour later for a $50,000 profit, I wouldn't expect to be allowed to keep the profit when Scottrade eventually discovered the error. It wouldn't mean that I wouldn't try to flip it, or squawk when they took it away, but it's hard to argue that I'm somehow rightfully owed that $50,000 in "profits".

Like I said, though, hope everyone gets paid. Good luck.

[Johnny Empire]

Some of my draw was comp obviously, how much I'm not sure.

As for the rate itself, I've seen Playtech casinos offer different amounts based on how much the casino thinks I'm worth to them. It can be adjusted to the casinos preference.

So this is NOT a computer glitch. Joyland entered in the rate themselves.

If Joyland can be let off claiming an incorrect comp rate, I should get a "do-over" too whenever I bust a deposit.