Joyland Casino: Problem withdrawal request

[Joyland]

To All Joyland players participating in Casinomeister's forums and all players in general.

I have read all of this thread and was keeping track on your replays and complaints. I hope this will be an answer to all of those.

A few weeks ago, Joyland casino had a problem, which we couldn't quite trace, until this situation. The problem was that our comp points system had a problem with calculating the amount of comp points per wager, crediting more then $1 to a $10 bet. This is unreasonable.

On August 7th we have received a few e-mails from concerned players, explaining us the situation. Those players were pointing out, that it looks like there is a bug in the software, crediting quite a lot of comp points (and therefore real money). When we found out about it, we made a decision about what to do.

Players who did not abuse the system, and accidentally "used" the comp points system got their withdraw (if they made any) without a problem.
Players who DID abuse the system, thus used the comp points system to keep on playing and playing (until, eventually they hit and withdrawn), we have decided to remove their winnings, and refund their funds back to their choice of deposit method.

We are aware of the fact that the comp points error was posted in forums on August 2nd and 3rd (and earlier), resulting a lot of players who read about it to log in and abuse the system. Most of those forums have already removed this thread (surprisingly) , but you can still locate some forums discussing about Joyland comp points system.
I Find it hard to believe that players converted more then $1000 (!) worth of comp points at one time (they later converted more and more), and didn't think it was a problem.
We have the comp system explained completly on our website (It was always there) at : http://www.joylandcasino.com/en/comppoints.html. The comp point system until august 7th was not working according to what stated at the website due to this software problem.

Those players, who abused the system, will not receive their withdraws, because they used a breach, instead of letting us know about it.
I am aware of the fact that this should had been traced by us, and it was, but only after a few players though they could take enormous amounts without even "winning" anything.

We had a player, who used a weird way of gambling. He was playing roulette, and his wager was Black-Red and 0 (Green) at the highest possible bet he could place. I am not sure what can be won this way, but he sure wagered enough to convert quite a lot of comp points.

We have Video poker players that played and wagered, until they have lost their initial deposit and bonus, but had quite a lot of comp points to convert and keep on playing, until, eventually, they won (naturally). Those players used a bug in the software to gain winnings, and eventually withdraw what they consider to be their winnings, but we consider as an abuse of the system.

We had players who were playing for more then 13 hours in a row, with a very unique way of playing - every 15 minutes of playing they would have converted the comp points (probably because they didn't know when the bug will be fixed) and kept on playing. 13 hours every day, 3 days in a row, without letting us know.

We have tried contacting (by phone and e-mails) and explaining all players involved in this case what had happened and why we have made this decision. If anyone was not contacted, we urge you to contact us at our toll free number - 1-866-516-0607, or our international phone number - 1-268-481-2265.

Please be assured that players who did not abuse the comp points system did receive their winnings. Players who won using their own deposit and bonus have already received their winnings. We are a respectful casino, and we will honor any win and withdraw our satisfied players have. But as a casino, we will not tolerate abusing a system. We thanked and rewarded players who have told us about the problem.

If any of Joyland players who did not receive his winnings think that we have made a mistake with his account (and again, mistakes do happen, and we are sorry if they did), please make sure to contact us, explaining the situation.
Any case will be investigated and handled again, to be sure that we haven't made a mistake with any specific player.
If you feel that you are not a part of the people who have used the problem, and are eligible to your winnings and any other player who wish to be contacted or contact us, please do so.

We are available at the phones i have entered, and available through e-mail at support@joylandcasino.com or management@joylandcasino.com .
You may also send me a private message in this forum, and I will replay.

We are not suggesting, and never suggested that these players are bonus abusers.

Thank you for the understanding in this matter.

Joyland casino.

[jon593]

Originally Posted by Joyland

To All Joyland players participating in Casinomeister's forums and all players in general.

I have read all of this thread and was keeping track on your replays and complaints. I hope this will be an answer to all of those.

A few weeks ago, Joyland casino had a problem, which we couldn't quite trace, until this situation. The problem was that our comp points system had a problem with calculating the amount of comp points per wager, crediting more then $1 to a $10 bet. This is unreasonable.

On August 7th we have received a few e-mails from concerned players, explaining us the situation. Those players were pointing out, that it looks like there is a bug in the software, crediting quite a lot of comp points (and therefore real money). When we found out about it, we made a decision about what to do.

Players who did not abuse the system, and accidentally "used" the comp points system got their withdraw (if they made any) without a problem.
Players who DID abuse the system, thus used the comp points system to keep on playing and playing (until, eventually they hit and withdrawn), we have decided to remove their winnings, and refund their funds back to their choice of deposit method.

We are aware of the fact that the comp points error was posted in forums on August 2nd and 3rd (and earlier), resulting a lot of players who read about it to log in and abuse the system. Most of those forums have already removed this thread (surprisingly) , but you can still locate some forums discussing about Joyland comp points system.
I Find it hard to believe that players converted more then $1000 (!) worth of comp points at one time (they later converted more and more), and didn't think it was a problem.
We have the comp system explained completly on our website (It was always there) at : http://www.joylandcasino.com/en/comppoints.html. The comp point system until august 7th was not working according to what stated at the website due to this software problem.

Those players, who abused the system, will not receive their withdraws, because they used a breach, instead of letting us know about it.
I am aware of the fact that this should had been traced by us, and it was, but only after a few players though they could take enormous amounts without even "winning" anything.

We had a player, who used a weird way of gambling. He was playing roulette, and his wager was Black-Red and 0 (Green) at the highest possible bet he could place. I am not sure what can be won this way, but he sure wagered enough to convert quite a lot of comp points.

We have Video poker players that played and wagered, until they have lost their initial deposit and bonus, but had quite a lot of comp points to convert and keep on playing, until, eventually, they won (naturally). Those players used a bug in the software to gain winnings, and eventually withdraw what they consider to be their winnings, but we consider as an abuse of the system.

We had players who were playing for more then 13 hours in a row, with a very unique way of playing - every 15 minutes of playing they would have converted the comp points (probably because they didn't know when the bug will be fixed) and kept on playing. 13 hours every day, 3 days in a row, without letting us know.

We have tried contacting (by phone and e-mails) and explaining all players involved in this case what had happened and why we have made this decision. If anyone was not contacted, we urge you to contact us at our toll free number - 1-866-516-0607, or our international phone number - 1-268-481-2265.

Please be assured that players who did not abuse the comp points system did receive their winnings. Players who won using their own deposit and bonus have already received their winnings. We are a respectful casino, and we will honor any win and withdraw our satisfied players have. But as a casino, we will not tolerate abusing a system. We thanked and rewarded players who have told us about the problem.

If any of Joyland players who did not receive his winnings think that we have made a mistake with his account (and again, mistakes do happen, and we are sorry if they did), please make sure to contact us, explaining the situation.
Any case will be investigated and handled again, to be sure that we haven't made a mistake with any specific player.
If you feel that you are not a part of the people who have used the problem, and are eligible to your winnings and any other player who wish to be contacted or contact us, please do so.

We are available at the phones i have entered, and available through e-mail at support@joylandcasino.com or management@joylandcasino.com .
You may also send me a private message in this forum, and I will replay.

We are not suggesting, and never suggested that these players are bonus abusers.

Thank you for the understanding in this matter.

Joyland casino.

i think it has been pretty well figured out that it was not a "software bug" it was more like a casino employee entering the wrong conversion rate

[largeeyes]

More than $1 per $10 bet? I believe it was actually a 4% comp rate. I would find it somewhat incredible that a representative of the casino could be so wrong. All then again, maybe I shouldn't. Perhaps exagerating the situation to make the player look bad?

[jon593]

Originally Posted by largeeyes

More than $1 per $10 bet? I believe it was actually a 4% comp rate. I would find it somewhat incredible that a representative of the casino could be so wrong. All then again, maybe I shouldn't. Perhaps exagerating the situation to make the player look bad?

perhaps meant more then 1 comp point per $10 bet

[Vesuvio]

Originally Posted by Joyland

Those players, who abused the system, will not receive their withdraws, because they used a breach, instead of letting us know about it.

You offered a generous comp point conversion rate - there wasn't any breach or software error. Perhaps you entered the wrong number, but that's your fault and you can't transfer any blame onto players. No-one "abused" your system, they just used it. Yes, it was favourable for players, but it's up to you to choose and monitor your systems, not players. If you are a "respectful" casino, as you claim, then you should accept it was your error and pay all involved. You might also want to explain why you deleted player logs and transaction records.

[jon593]

Originally Posted by Vesuvio

You might also want to explain why you deleted player logs and transaction records.

yes, yes please do i couldnt help but notice this was never mentioned in either post by joyland representatives

[thelawnet]

Originally Posted by Joyland

To All Joyland players participating in Casinomeister's forums and all players in general.

I have read all of this thread and was keeping track on your replays and complaints. I hope this will be an answer to all of those.

A few weeks ago, Joyland casino had a problem, which we couldn't quite trace, until this situation. The problem was that our comp points system had a problem with calculating the amount of comp points per wager, crediting more then $1 to a $10 bet. This is unreasonable.

You couldn't quite trace it? Why not? The only way the comp points ratio could have got this way is if you set it like that. This doesn't ring true.

And unreasonable is a matter of opinion. 4% is quite a lot (40 cents per $10 bet), enough to give players at best a 3.5%+ edge. I don't see how it's unreasonable if you set a certain comp point ratio that people will play for it. Any more than it's reasonable for players to play keno, complain there's an 8% edge to you, the casino, and then ask for their money back when they lose.

On August 7th we have received a few e-mails from concerned players, explaining us the situation. Those players were pointing out, that it looks like there is a bug in the software, crediting quite a lot of comp points (and therefore real money). When we found out about it, we made a decision about what to do.

Players who did not abuse the system, and accidentally "used" the comp points system got their withdraw (if they made any) without a problem.
Players who DID abuse the system, thus used the comp points system to keep on playing and playing (until, eventually they hit and withdrawn), we have decided to remove their winnings, and refund their funds back to their choice of deposit method.

We are aware of the fact that the comp points error was posted in forums on August 2nd and 3rd (and earlier), resulting a lot of players who read about it to log in and abuse the system. Most of those forums have already removed this thread (surprisingly) , but you can still locate some forums discussing about Joyland comp points system.
I Find it hard to believe that players converted more then $1000 (!) worth of comp points at one time (they later converted more and more), and didn't think it was a problem.
We have the comp system explained completly on our website (It was always there) at : http://www.joylandcasino.com/en/comppoints.html. The comp point system until august 7th was not working according to what stated at the website due to this software problem.

It seems disingenuous to describe this as a software problem. The software can behave in only one way - the way it was set by the operator.

It was set to pay out one comp for every $0.25 set, with 100 comps converting to $1, and then later to 150 comps to $1.

Did the software change itself to 150 comps to $1? I don't think so.

A casino employee set it to $0.25/1, 100/$1, and then again set it to 150/$1.

That's not what I would call a software problem.

Those players, who abused the system, will not receive their withdraws, because they used a breach, instead of letting us know about it.
I am aware of the fact that this should had been traced by us, and it was, but only after a few players though they could take enormous amounts without even "winning" anything.

We have Video poker players that played and wagered, until they have lost their initial deposit and bonus, but had quite a lot of comp points to convert and keep on playing, until, eventually, they won (naturally).

Naturally? We have already seen one poster in this thread say that he lost, so there is certainly no guarantee whatsoever that you will win.

I'm sure we've all experienced times when we've lost all our money in rates well over 4% as well.

I'm not sure why you would expect people to contact you. Your software behaves in a certain way, because you set it that way.

Those players used a bug in the software to gain winnings, and eventually withdraw what they consider to be their winnings, but we consider as an abuse of the system.

Again, this was not a bug. The software behaved exactly as designed.

The comp rate was set a particular way, and the software paid out accordingly.

We had players who were playing for more then 13 hours in a row, with a very unique way of playing - every 15 minutes of playing they would have converted the comp points (probably because they didn't know when the bug will be fixed) and kept on playing. 13 hours every day, 3 days in a row, without letting us know.

Please be assured that players who did not abuse the comp points system did receive their winnings. Players who won using their own deposit and bonus have already received their winnings. We are a respectful casino, and we will honor any win and withdraw our satisfied players have. But as a casino, we will not tolerate abusing a system. We thanked and rewarded players who have told us about the problem.

This is not a very good attitude. Players played because you offered a generous comps ratio. Playtech displays this comp ratio clearly in the software. People will have played purely because of the comps. Some will have lost. Some will have won. One player indicated that he hit a large Royal Flush win very quickly ($20,000). Obviously with such a win you would normally cash out straight away, but he continued to play I can only imagine purely because of the comp point ratio that you had set.

Given this, it's not very fair to say that: given (a) player wins, (b) player keeps playing knowing that generous comps are being given, and only because of that reason keeps playng (c) player forfeits winnings.

It's impossible to fairly withhold winnings from people who had every right to claim and redeem the comps you offered, and to somehow claim this is abuse. When a casino doesn't like the player counting cards while playing blackjack, it has every right to ask him to leave, but no right to wait till he has won $10,000, and then take him to the back room before taking his chips from him and kicking him out the back door.

We are not suggesting, and never suggested that these players are bonus abusers.

Really? So why do you use the word 'abuse' in your post so much?

[BJesus]

Players who won using their own deposit and bonus have already received their winnings. We are a respectful casino, and we will honor any win and withdraw our satisfied players have.

Does this mean I get my £1K+ sign up win no dispute you are going to pay me.

Not happy that every customer is obliged to tell you it is not that obvious. I for one did not notice anything unsual I just thought I was very lucky and went to bed very happy.

[boogaooga]

On August 7th we have received a few e-mails from concerned players, explaining us the situation. Those players were pointing out, that it looks like there is a bug in the software, crediting quite a lot of comp points (and therefore real money). When we found out about it, we made a decision about what to do.

Those players, who abused the system, will not receive their withdraws, because they used a breach, instead of letting us know about it.

We thanked and rewarded players who have told us about the problem.

I'm a neutral observer in this whole mess. But the thing that strikes me most (other than Joyland's utter lack of an explanation as to why they falsified player logs), is the underlying tone that players have an obligation to report the fact that they are winning to the casino, and that if they don't, then the casino is perfectly within their rights to take their winnings(!).

[casinomike]

Originally Posted by Joyland

We have the comp system explained completly on our website (It was always there) at : http://www.joylandcasino.com/en/comppoints.html. The comp point system until august 7th was not working according to what stated at the website due to this software problem.

I believe it has been all but proven this was no software problem.

about your comp points terms page
quoted from your page:

At Joyland Casino, the more you play, the more comp points you accumulate.
The more Comp points you accumulate, the more money you will have available to win!

This is exactly what I was doing

And the best thing of all, is that once you are in a VIP Club, you get more money, for less Comp points... Therefore you win more, even if you play less...

By taking your high roller signup bonus and and wagering highly risky bets at video poker and blackjack, and I wasnt even playing very good basic strategy? for my VIP welcome I was given a locked out account, erased history and to this day have not been contacted. Nor will I continue to call an unanswered phone