beware PKR.com

[fatshaft]

Originally Posted by Rusty

As for me questioning that you Two are in any way connected;
You both started posting in the other PKR thread around the same time and then you both appear here around the same time.
Neither of you are prolific posters and yet you both rigorously deny that there is anything (even the licensing issue) wrong at PKR.
I think any reasonable person would suspect a connection and the fact that you say (FATSHAFT) that this is (tin foil hat stuff) says more about you than I ever would/could.

.

Yup, I am a low volume poster, aound 15 a year, mainly becasue there was historically no poker content, and latterly even though there is now a poker section there are rarely any posts, and pokeraddict tends to post anything relevant that I would have to say, so there's no need for the repitition.

Go to the zoo, I have 2000 posts, or ITH, nearly 5000, or the Mob, over 1000, or AWOP 500+, and a few other sites where I have a handful of posts, most more than here. They are poker forums, so that's where I post.

As for Snake being low volume, you did notice he signed up this month didn't you? And where else is he supposed to post? This is the ONLY poker thread that has been posted on today, and only four have been active in nearly two weeks.

I'm certainly NOT denying the issue over alleged bonus abuse was anything other than totally wrong, however you weighed in with your claims on not being licensed in the UK, and on fact that there wasn't a link, both of those statements are factually wrong; and were sidetracking an issue that they deserve a whacking over the head for, whether they are being disingenious stating their claims in the way they do is a matter of conjecture, nevertheless your statements were incorrect and unhelpful with respect to the matter in question, so it's surely no surprise to anyone that you were pulled up on them?

Your 'evidence' and suppositions are as accurate as your rigged software statements.

I would suggest you take your claims to =4, where you will be shown all the respect usually given to 'zomg, it's rigged' posters.

[Snake Eyes]

Originally Posted by Rusty

You are talking to someone who has played poker for a long long time so don't tell me about bad beats, I know all about them.
They can and do happen.
But by your reasoning it obviously follows that no poker room cheats because it can always be put down to bad beats, no matter how unlikely the outcomes?


As for me questioning that you Two are in any way connected;
You both started posting in the other PKR thread around the same time and then you both appear here around the same time.
Neither of you are prolific posters and yet you both rigorously deny that there is anything (even the licensing issue) wrong at PKR.
I think any reasonable person would suspect a connection and the fact that you say (FATSHAFT) that this is (tin foil hat stuff) says more about you than I ever would/could.
As regards sit n go tournements I thought it was obvious what I meant when I asked if these play differently.
The blinds go up in sit N go but not in cash games, really? Please.
Here is a little fact for you;

When I used to play cash tables online I was making an average of around £250 PW playing 5/10p blinds Week in Week out for around 5 Months/regular bad beats included.
Then One Day I was suddenly getting cold decked time after time after time, it was so ridiculous that I knew if I had a flush or straight and the board was paired the other Guy/Girl would have a FH for certain.Time after time.
If I had KK I knew my raise would be re-raised before I even bet.
Every over-pair I had would be cracked.
3 suited cards on board and I have K flush, no problem they would have A flush.
Flop a FH no worries I would still get beat.
My stats went down to 9% hands won on 6 seater tables from around 40% and I dare say the 9% was folds to bluffs.

Why would a site rig a game at lower stakes, including sit n go?

Here is just one theory;

Online poker was probably One of the fastest growing industries of this Decade.
In its earlier Days there were lots and lots of new blood ready to be gobbled up by hungry Sharks and the poker sites would get their rake regardless, right?
Wrong, because these people who were relatively new to poker and excited by the concept would soon get discouraged and give up on the game.
Pretty soon the sites would only be frequented by lots of sharks and the odd casual player.
Now if I was a clever person involved in the industry I might just want to find a way to protect the new players and keep them playing and what better way than to introduce a hidden handicap system?
I could code the software tomorrow, easy.
There is little or no regulation to worry about and other than a few low stake sharks leaving with disgruntled "bad beat strories" it would increase profits and every Dog would have their Day.
Also the rake will always be better on a low skill cash games.
The rake is always the same in sit N go but that is where most beginners will start.
Of course there are lots of other theories and ways and reasons for sites to cheat but whether you believe any site would cheat to increase profits comes down to;
A) Which side of the industry you are.
B) Whether you believe the US and UK invaded Iraq because of WMD's, no I mean Al Qaeda, no I mean regime change.

At no point in my original post did I say this was supposed to be a dispassionate review, it most clearly is not, so forgive me if I have no idea why you would compare it to One.

The bottom line is I would not play there again with your money but you are welcome to do so.

This thread is fast becoming incredibly pointless - you've still provided no evidence for your claims. I'd appreciate it if you could please stop putting words into my mouth too - your interpretation of 'my reasoning' is wildly inaccurate

Your conspiracy theory is equally laughable. I have no affiliation with PKR, other than playing there. I don't work for them, and I don't know anybody who works for them. I think the recent 'bonus abuse' issue has done them no favours, and I totally disagree with it. You were wrong on the licensing issue. I'm perfectly happy to disagree with you on whether it should be displayed the way it is - I don't have a problem personally - but you keep returning to this issue for some reason.

Bringing up the length of time i've been posting on here is a pretty weak argument, and seems little more than an attempt to deflect attention away from the fact you haven't provided a shred of evidence for your claims.

You can carry on with such a line of argument if you wish, but I think it's beginning to make you look rather ridiculous

[Rusty]

Did you actually read my post Snake?

This thread is fast becoming incredibly pointless - you've still provided no evidence for your claims. I'd appreciate it if you could please stop putting words into my mouth too - your interpretation of 'my reasoning' is wildly inaccurate

Seems perfectly accurate to me.

Your conspiracy theory is equally laughable. I have no affiliation with PKR, other than playing there. I don't work for them, and I don't know anybody who works for them. I think the recent 'bonus abuse' issue has done them no favours, and I totally disagree with it. You were wrong on the licensing issue. I'm perfectly happy to disagree with you on whether it should be displayed the way it is - I don't have a problem personally - but you keep returning to this issue for some reason.

What conspiracy theory would that be?
I have never stated you were affiliated or connected with PKR?
Freudian slip perhaps?

I was not wrong on the licensing issue and no matter how many times you repeat that it wont make it true.
I keep returning to the issue because you keep bringing up (Cough)

Bringing up the length of time i've been posting on here is a pretty weak argument, and seems little more than an attempt to deflect attention away from the fact you haven't provided a shred of evidence for your claims.

I was not saying that your contributions were any less important than anybody elses nor did I mention the length of time you had been a poster.
Far from trying to deflect anything I was again responding to these petty attacks.

This thread is pointless because it seems the pair of you have descended into a LAUGHABLE (Is that the word of the Week or something?) attempt to send me up as crank.



I would suggest you take your claims to =4, where you will be shown all the respect usually given to 'zomg, it's rigged' posters.

Like people who claimed absolute was rigged you mean?

I think you are both "rather ridiculous" so I guess we are even.

[fatshaft]

Originally Posted by Rusty

Your conspiracy theory is equally laughable. I have no affiliation with PKR, other than playing there. I don't work for them, and I don't know anybody who works for them. I think the recent 'bonus abuse' issue has done them no favours, and I totally disagree with it. You were wrong on the licensing issue. I'm perfectly happy to disagree with you on whether it should be displayed the way it is - I don't have a problem personally - but you keep returning to this issue for some reason.

What conspiracy theory would that be?
I have never stated you were affiliated or connected with PKR?
Freudian slip perhaps?

Erm, well you in fact pointedly said as much on page 2, you seem unable to maintain even your own level of consiracy theory thoughts on one level for more than a day?

Originally Posted by Rusty

As for me questioning that you Two are in any way connected;
You both started posting in the other PKR thread around the same time and then you both appear here around the same time.
Neither of you are prolific posters and yet you both rigorously deny that there is anything (even the licensing issue) wrong at PKR.
I think any reasonable person would suspect a connection and the fact that you say (FATSHAFT) that this is (tin foil hat stuff) says more about you than
>
>
>
>
Of course there are lots of other theories and ways and reasons for sites to cheat but whether you believe any site would cheat to increase profits comes down to;
A) Which side of the industry you are.

If that first comment isn't suggesting that either of us work for PKR, your second comment implicitly says as much.

Originally Posted by Rusty

I was not wrong on the licensing issue and no matter how many times you repeat that it wont make it true.

You stated they were not licensed by the UKGC, and that they didn't even link to any info on their claim. Both of your statements are INCORRECT, they are both licensed in the UK (not for gambling, but by the UKGC nevertheless) and do link to all relevant info on the matter.

You are wrong, and it is simply proved by one click on the link they provide - these are easily proven FACTUAL inaccuracies in your posts.

Originally Posted by Rusty

I would suggest you take your claims to =4, where you will be shown all the respect usually given to 'zomg, it's rigged' posters.

Like people who claimed absolute was rigged you mean?

I think you are both "rather ridiculous" so I guess we are even.

You are claiming tinfoil hat RNG rigged rubbish that has never been proven in a single case, that has nothing to do with the UB/AP situation, which was down to CHEATING, a completely different and irrelevant situation to your supposed theory.


I repeat my request to take it to 2+2 and see what they make of your claims? They were quick enough to unravel the full extent of the recent scandals from UB/AP, so I'm sure the wealth of evidence you will supply (as you say, none of your 'evidence' is anecdotal) will have PKR running for cover minutes after this is put on show for all to see.


P.S. please use the quote function rather than italicise text, it makes it much easier to follow who is saying what exactly.

[Rusty]

Have a safe journey back to Toy town

[Snake Eyes]

Originally Posted by Rusty

This thread is pointless because it seems the pair of you have descended into a LAUGHABLE (Is that the word of the Week or something?) attempt to send me up as crank.

We're trying to send you up as a crank?

You've accused a poker room of being rigged without a shred of evidence (still happy to read anything you've got, by the way).

You've accused them of lying about having a licence from the UKGC, when it is clearly displayed on their site

You've then accused fatshaft and I of working for PKR because we disagree with you (oh no, sorry, you did nothing of the sort ) and actually deal in facts, and then said we're the ones taking part in 'petty attacks'

You've then brought the Tokwiro scandal into this discussion when it is completely irrelevant.

I think you're doing a pretty good job of the whole crank thing yourself without anyone else's help.

[vinylweatherman]

Originally Posted by fatshaft

http://www.pkr.com/about-pkr/pkr-integrity.cfm

The link from the UK Gambling Commision text (click on 'licensed') on their footer takes you through to an explanation of what is licensed, they also display the Alderney logo.

So now that we've got that mis-statement out of the way, why is it rigged? What stats do you have to back this up other than you're losing?

The link works, but here is the source of the confusion. From PKR

Licensing & Regulation


PKR Technologies Limited is the software developer that powers PKR and is the only online poker software developer anywhere to be licensed by the UK Government. To view our UK Remote Operating License, please click

This is ambiguous. A "remote operating license" is not quite what they have, they have a licence to develop, install, and amend the poker software in use at PKR POKER. If you do not read the earlier sentence, and interpret it as applying as an explanation of the "remote operating license", it is easy to think they mean the licence is for the GAMING "operating", rather than just the software.

None of this is any help to Topoor, as this only covers the poker SOFTWARE, so all discussions about their GAMING having dual regulation can cease, as it seems it is all regulated by the AGCC.

If anyone, however, believed the poker SOFTWARE to be "rigged", then the UK Gambling Commission most certainly WOULD be a place to complain to, provided you have enough evidence to back the claim up, such as a statistically significant sample. Given the scandals at AP and Ultimate, this kind of evidence will no longer be dismissed as the rantings of a losing player - this is the damage that the aforementioned pair of scandals have done to the integrity of the poker industry, and the fact that these operators went to great lengths to deny anything, and stuck to it until it was dragged out of them, will mean that denials by operators in the future are less likely to be taken at face value.

[lots0]

Originally Posted by Snake Eyes

You've accused them of lying about having a licence from the UKGC, when it is clearly displayed on their site

No your wrong, pkr.com is NOT licensed in the UK.

Obviously the misleading information that pkr.com put up on their main page is doing just what pkr.com wanted. Players like Snake eyes seem to think they are licensed by the UK Gaming Commission, I wonder how many other players have been duped like this?

The FACT that they put a link that intends to mislead players into FALSELY believing that pkr.com is licensed by the UK Gaming Commission, makes pkr.com a Rogue, in my opinion. Only a Rogue Poker Room would claim to be licensed when in FACT they are NOT Licensed.

Intentionally misleading players is a serious offense..

As we all know, weather the card room playing is rigged or not can go back and forth for a very long time with both sides trying to shoot down the other (see the threads about absolute poker cheating scandal). Without a large amount of data from the poker room itself, it is almost impossible to PROVE a poker room is cheating.

However, the FACT that pkr.com is so willing to mislead players into thinking they are licensed by the UK Gaming Commission, when in FACT they are not, makes Rusty's accusations much more plausible and believable.

The link at the bottom of pkr.com main page is misleading - PKR.com is NOT licensed by UK Gaming Commission.

Now if you folks want to play at a room that is more than willing to mislead players like that, is totally up to you...

But don't try to blow off such a serious breach of player trust as nothing...

The FACT pkr.com put up that misleading text and link means these people at PKR.com are willing to lie to get your business... If they are willing to lie to get your business, I wonder what they would do to get your money???

[Snake Eyes]

Originally Posted by lots0

However, the FACT that pkr.com is so willing to mislead players into thinking they are licensed by the UK Gaming Commission, when in FACT they are not, makes Rusty's accusations much more plausible and believable.

Complete nonsense. I don't even know where to begin with such a statement.

Originally Posted by lots0

As we all know, weather the card room playing is rigged or not can go back and forth for a very long time with both sides trying to shoot down the other (see the threads about absolute poker cheating scandal). Without a large amount of data from the poker room itself, it is almost impossible to PROVE a poker room is cheating.

Quite why the Absolute Poker situation keeps getting brought up here is beyond me. That was nothing to do with the poker room (read; RNG) being 'rigged'.

The point is, the OP has provided absolutely no evidence to his claim. Therefore I think i'm well within my rights to shoot him down. As i've repeatedly said, if he provides any evidence, i'll be happy to read it.

[lots0]

Originally Posted by Snake Eyes

Complete nonsense. I don't even know where to begin with such a statement.

Of course you don't have a response or argument, simply because I am right.

PKR.com is misleading players, no doubt about it.
The "Proof" is right on their main page for anyone to see.

The deception is so obvious, once it is pointed out....

So if I am wrong, where is PKR's UKGC License? They claim they are licensed...

Licensed by the UK Gambling Commission

source: xxhttp://www.pkr.com/

That quote from PKR's main page says it all....
Except for the FACT PKR is NOT licensed by the UK Gambling Commission.

With deceptions like that, who needs to look at their software to decide if these guys are on the level (why waste the time)... PKR's attempted deception of players says it all.

Why bring up Absolute Poker... Why not bring them up?
Absolute Poker is a great example of what online poker rooms can get away with...
But you know what? As bad as Absolute Poker is, I don't remember them claiming to be licensed in a jurisdiction where they were in fact NOT licensed.

If PKR.com were so honest and not trying to mislead players, why don't they just say that have a license to develop software from UKGC? Instead of trying to make people believe their Poker Room is licensed by the UKGC, when it is in fact NOT licensed by that agency.