beware PKR.com

[fatshaft]

Originally Posted by Rusty

I think you mean misstatement but a Man is entitled to his Hyphens.

But what misstatement is that?
The site is NOT licensed by the UK gambling commission, they are simply licensed to provide software by them, hence the fact the site is licensed by Alderney.
Advertising on the Homepage of this site that they are licensed by the UK gambling commission is misleading.

It's not misleading if you click the link (which you said didn't work - were you deliberately misleading?), nor is it misleading that they also have a clear AGCC logo posted above the text about the UKGC.

Originally Posted by Rusty

I wont even qualify your other question with a reply.
Play there by all means.

Nothing to back up your claims then?

[lots0]

PKR Ltd has been evaluated by Gaming Associates

Source: xxhttp://www.pkr.com/about-pkr/pkr-integrity.cfm

Gaming Associates... The same group that gave the cheaters at Absolute Poker a clean bill... really makes me want to trust pkr ltd.... NOT!

I also agree with Rusty, the way the UK Gambling Commission link is set up on PKR's main page is misleading and it looks to me to be intentionally misleading, a very bad thing.

They (PKR.com) are not licensed by the UK Gambling Commission. However at the very bottom of their main page is says on one line in no uncertain terms, "Licensed by the UK Gambling Commission". That is misleading, no doubt about it.

If pkr are willing to mislead players in this way, I would find it very very hard to trust them at all with my money.

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by fatshaft

It's not misleading if you click the link (which you said didn't work - were you deliberately misleading?), nor is it misleading that they also have a clear AGCC logo posted above the text about the UKGC.


Nothing to back up your claims then?

Look, the link is only on the word licensed in the sentence "licensed by the UK gambling commission" (Why?) and that takes you to them waffling about being the only software provider licensed in the UK, they then go on to say the site is licensed by Alderney under said link.
If you do not find that misleading then that is fine but I do for the reasons I have stated.

As for backing up my claims that it is rigged One deposit was enough but any stats would show how ludicrously often I lost to turn/river or river when infront (all in) or in other words when they needed runner,runner or river with only Two outs.
Sure that can happen over a short period of play but the game really did not feel right.
3 handed A's V 10's V 8's ...10's win on river, that sort of thing, read my other posts.
Anything could be a bad beat as an isolated incident but when this stuff keeps happening every time you have just got your balance positive it gets your attention.
Sit n Go tournies this is so I can not say about the cash games.


YOU SHOULD PLAY THERE since you are convinced it is a fair game, why is that by the way?

[Snake Eyes]

Originally Posted by Rusty

As for backing up my claims that it is rigged One deposit was enough but any stats would show how ludicrously often I lost to turn/river or river when infront (all in) or in other words when they needed runner,runner or river with only Two outs.
Sure that can happen over a short period of play but the game really did not feel right.
3 handed A's V 10's V 8's ...10's win on river, that sort of thing, read my other posts.
Anything could be a bad beat as an isolated incident but when this stuff keeps happening every time you have just got your balance positive it gets your attention.
Sit n Go tournies this is so I can not say about the cash games.


YOU SHOULD PLAY THERE since you are convinced it is a fair game, why is that by the way?

I play there too, and have no problem with it. I think claiming that a poker room is rigged with little to no evidence, other than a couple of anecdotal bad beats (particularly in sit and go tournaments) is a strong statement to make

[Rusty]

Yes they are strong words.
On reflection I should of said very, very, very, very, very dodgy

The evidence is not anecdotal though and it is a lot more than a couple of bad beats.
By saying the evidence is anecdotal you are saying that it is hearsay and untrustworthy.
Why, "particularly sit n go" do these tournaments play differently?
I have nothing to gain by expressing my concerns about this site can you say the same about the way you want to dispute what I say?
Why don't you and Fatshaft (as you seem to know each other) go and have fun playing their deal or no deal.
I wont stop you.
In fact why don't you make another thread entitled "Why I love pkr.com" and tell people it is the fairest game on the net and they are the only poker site licensed by the UK Government.

[fatshaft]

Originally Posted by Rusty

YOU SHOULD PLAY THERE since you are convinced it is a fair game, why is that by the way?

Because your claims are ludicrous, and now by your oiwn admission based on a very small sample size. From what I've played on PKR, the players are abysmal, I've seen myself raise and get five callers at $200NL (rarely anything larger running), so when you get player sthat loose, your going to see a lot of funny hands obviously.

Originally Posted by Rusty

Yes they are strong words.
On reflection I should of said very, very, very, very, very dodgy

Based on a handful of hands on sng's? Your claims are laughable.

Originally Posted by Rusty

The evidence is not anecdotal though and it is a lot more than a couple of bad beats.

That is exactly what it is

Originally Posted by Rusty

By saying the evidence is anecdotal you are saying that it is hearsay and untrustworthy.

No, he's saying they are anecdotal

Originally Posted by Rusty

Why, "particularly sit n go" do these tournaments play differently?

Wow. Well as you don't seem to understand, it is a one table tournamen where blind pressure will force players to play more borderline hands, far more often than (the already loose standards apparent) on their (or any site's) cash games

Originally Posted by Rusty

I have nothing to gain by expressing my concerns about this site can you say the same about the way you want to dispute what I say?
Why don't you and Fatshaft (as you seem to know each other) go and have fun playing their deal or no deal. I wont stop you.

I don't play casino games, but it's interesting that you point out that two defenders of their RNG 'must' in your view be connected in some way. That says all that we need about your ability to review soomething dispassionately. the first thing that pops into your mind is that there must be a connection somewhere - typical tin foil hat stuff. For the record I have no idea who snakeyes is, can;t say I've come across the name on any of the main forums.

Originally Posted by Rusty

In fact why don't you make another thread entitled "Why I love pkr.com" and tell people it is the fairest game on the net and they are the only poker site licensed by the UK Government.

As fair as any of the other rooms, until someone can provide evidence as opposed to conspiracy theories.

[Snake Eyes]

Originally Posted by Rusty

Yes they are strong words.
On reflection I should of said very, very, very, very, very dodgy

The evidence is not anecdotal though and it is a lot more than a couple of bad beats.
By saying the evidence is anecdotal you are saying that it is hearsay and untrustworthy.
Why, "particularly sit n go" do these tournaments play differently?
I have nothing to gain by expressing my concerns about this site can you say the same about the way you want to dispute what I say?
Why don't you and Fatshaft (as you seem to know each other) go and have fun playing their deal or no deal.
I wont stop you.
In fact why don't you make another thread entitled "Why I love pkr.com" and tell people it is the fairest game on the net and they are the only poker site licensed by the UK Government.

Firstly, I don't know Fatshaft, I have no idea who he is. I simply agree with him.

Secondly, you don't seem have presented any real evidence. Everyone takes bad beats - I did last night (AA vs 77 on a 554T board, river 7). If you do have any evidence, i'd be interested to see it.

Thirdly, sit 'n' go's are very different to cash games. I can't think why a poker room would decide to even bother rigging a sit 'n' go.

Finally - I don't feel the need to do anything like that. I work in the industry, and have played at a great number of poker rooms. I like playing at PKR, the software is very nice, and there are good games on there. I don't have any reason to suspect they are any less 'fair' than any other poker room. Simple as that. As regards the licensing point - all I have done on this thread is relay the facts

[fatshaft]

Playing the $12.5k Guarantee last night, we're down to 17, and it's the first hand after the third break, I'm SB and about 14th in chips, BB is last at the moment and is effectively all-in on his blind. Table chip leader mini-raises which virtually puts me all-in and covers the BB.

I wake up with QQ, so I push, BB and CL quickly call, CL has AA, and the BB has KK

BB hits a King and I go out 17th.

Must be fixed

[Rusty]

You are talking to someone who has played poker for a long long time so don't tell me about bad beats, I know all about them.
They can and do happen.
But by your reasoning it obviously follows that no poker room cheats because it can always be put down to bad beats, no matter how unlikely the outcomes?


As for me questioning that you Two are in any way connected;
You both started posting in the other PKR thread around the same time and then you both appear here around the same time.
Neither of you are prolific posters and yet you both rigorously deny that there is anything (even the licensing issue) wrong at PKR.
I think any reasonable person would suspect a connection and the fact that you say (FATSHAFT) that this is (tin foil hat stuff) says more about you than I ever would/could.
As regards sit n go tournements I thought it was obvious what I meant when I asked if these play differently.
The blinds go up in sit N go but not in cash games, really? Please.
Here is a little fact for you;

When I used to play cash tables online I was making an average of around £250 PW playing 5/10p blinds Week in Week out for around 5 Months/regular bad beats included.
Then One Day I was suddenly getting cold decked time after time after time, it was so ridiculous that I knew if I had a flush or straight and the board was paired the other Guy/Girl would have a FH for certain.Time after time.
If I had KK I knew my raise would be re-raised before I even bet.
Every over-pair I had would be cracked.
3 suited cards on board and I have K flush, no problem they would have A flush.
Flop a FH no worries I would still get beat.
My stats went down to 9% hands won on 6 seater tables from around 40% and I dare say the 9% was folds to bluffs.

Why would a site rig a game at lower stakes, including sit n go?

Here is just one theory;

Online poker was probably One of the fastest growing industries of this Decade.
In its earlier Days there were lots and lots of new blood ready to be gobbled up by hungry Sharks and the poker sites would get their rake regardless, right?
Wrong, because these people who were relatively new to poker and excited by the concept would soon get discouraged and give up on the game.
Pretty soon the sites would only be frequented by lots of sharks and the odd casual player.
Now if I was a clever person involved in the industry I might just want to find a way to protect the new players and keep them playing and what better way than to introduce a hidden handicap system?
I could code the software tomorrow, easy.
There is little or no regulation to worry about and other than a few low stake sharks leaving with disgruntled "bad beat strories" it would increase profits and every Dog would have their Day.
Also the rake will always be better on a low skill cash games.
The rake is always the same in sit N go but that is where most beginners will start.
Of course there are lots of other theories and ways and reasons for sites to cheat but whether you believe any site would cheat to increase profits comes down to;
A) Which side of the industry you are.
B) Whether you believe the US and UK invaded Iraq because of WMD's, no I mean Al Qaeda, no I mean regime change.

At no point in my original post did I say this was supposed to be a dispassionate review, it most clearly is not, so forgive me if I have no idea why you would compare it to One.

The bottom line is I would not play there again with your money but you are welcome to do so.

[Rusty]

[quote=fatshaft;247584]Playing the $12.5k Guarantee last night, we're down to 17, and it's the first hand after the third break, I'm SB and about 14th in chips, BB is last at the moment and is effectively all-in on his blind. Table chip leader mini-raises which virtually puts me all-in and covers the BB.

I wake up with QQ, so I push, BB and CL quickly call, CL has AA, and the BB has KK

BB hits a King and I go out 17th.


Only around a 20,000/1 chance at a 10 player table?
Much higher at a 6 player.
My maths could be wrong though .