Time to Rogue CDS as fake watchdog

[brucake]

I had made small mention of this prior but it is very much time to quit acting like this is a legitimate entity. They are clearly not a watchdog group or even interested in helping the player. They are there to trick players into THINKING that there is a watchdog but it is false beyond reason. "Victor", whom supposedly is the final word for this mess of a site is a foolish liar. The site doesn't properly work and they bloody well know it. They have been getting a free pass here, per se, for too long. They must be thrown into the rogue pit as they are not real and are not a watchdog, in fact, they are quite the opposite.

Victor takes months to respond, then when he does it is nonsensical and always in the casino's favor. My latest case in point was LOCK casino. I PaB'd and was accused by lock of being part of a dishonest group. That was false and agreed on but lock did not fix the situation regardless of the PaB. Then another affiliate from this forum attempted to contact them and they said that I was a fraudulent player but would not tell him why. Then I contacted Gambling Grumbles and they told that man "IF they tried to contact me to verify my documents and identity that I probably wouldn't even know what they were talking about" (insane). They also ignored Gamblng Grumbles inquiry as to what documents they would want in order to prove identity and such.
Apparently they offered up a blackjack bonus then claimed all the winners were part of a group that came in and played blackjack. It is ridiculous to say the least but that is another issue altogether.

During this entire time I had submitted a complaint to CDS but they were unresponsive and even forced me to open new complaints just to respond or add to the old complaint. How they can have software that doesn't work is also just ridiculous. This whole time, my PaB, the other affiliate here and gambling grumbles all agreed they were wrong. They all were told in some form or other that I was part of some ring or that I was fraudulent. What does Victor and CDS come back with months later?

Dear Mr. Robinson, After careful review of the evidence presented by the Operator, we have reached our final conclusion. The evidence does point to activity that is forbidden in the casino under their Terms and Conditions: 
h. If you are found cheating or if it is determined by Lock Casino that you have used a system or machine, be it an additional computer, additional software or otherwise used to circumvent the natural randomness of our systems. As such, we have decided to rule in favour of Lock Casino. We thank you for the opportunity you've given us to review this case. Sincerely, Victor CDS

Victor lookes so deeply into this situation that he didn't realize that I am a MRS. not MR. firstly.
So now, I went from a ring, to a fraud to a cheat. Victor apparently did not even look into this situation and just made up some random excuse. How the heck could I manipulate the randomness of an online casino? I would be filthy rich if I could!
Regardless, this is just the kind of nonsensical answer that I would expect from him. He has also spent over half of a year "investigating" how Cleopatras is not paying me with the only update being that they are not hearing back from the casino. They just aren't real and they have no way of making a casino act accordingly so they find something to side with the casino about. It is an embarrassment to the industry and to this site that they are not rogue. They should be and surely no player should be advised to waste their time and efforts contacting these clowns.

[chuchu59]

Anything initiated by RTG is fake and that dates back to the Safebet era where false seals of approval were handed out to rogue casinos including the vegas strip casinos and windows casino (of tony friedman fame). Then there was Hastings and now CDS. Gambling Grumbles might just not be as forceful now than when under the care of Julie Sidwell (Gopd bless her) and gambling.com. To sum it up, I think you won and they didnt pay you by claiming you are a fraudster. In fact, I believe Lock wouldnt pay anyone so it's just a matter of finding an excuse. As long as the casino is unwilling to pay CDS will side with them. Dont waste your energy with them.

[vinylweatherman]

If you are found cheating or if it is determined by Lock Casino that you have used a system or machine, be it an additional computer, additional software or otherwise used to circumvent the natural randomness of our systems.

So, CDS (on behalf of RTG) have just ADMITTED that it is possible to "circumvent the natural randomness of our systems", so therefore BELIEVE casinos who present playlogs showing that the "randomness has been manipulated", thus allowing the wins to be voided.

Safebet was rogued here under "fake watchdog site". Although CDS, unlike Safebet, actually have a complaints process, it seems set up to "rubber stamp" decisions made by casinos, rather than give a fair and independent route of appeal for the player.

Despite the weight of opinion from a number of respected mediators that the casino was wrong, it stuck to it's guns and decided it didn't have to "play fair" because being based in a country that offers no recourse to players other than CDS, it simply doesn't have to.

Lock have had problems even playing legitimate players, so it seems they CAN'T pay, rather than "won't pay" those players who they believe are out to win in the short term, rather than stick around for the long term and make money for the casino (they need all their available cash to keep the losing players coming back for more by NOT delaying payments on those occasions where they recover some losses and withdraw).

Simply playing Blackjack is NOT evidence of membership of a "group", but merely an indication that the player is out to WIN, rather than piss their money away playing those notoriously tight RTG slots. If casinos don't want this type of player, they should give only SLOTS bonuses out in order to send a clear message to players who chase down possible +EV table game bonuses that there is no point in playing there.

To offer Blackjack bonuses with the intent of not paying those who win "too cleverly" is rogue behaviour. If a Blackjack bonus is offered with a set of rules, players who manage to win despite them should get paid, and then be offered no more "easy" Blackjack bonuses.

In order to rogue CDS, there needs to be analysis of the complaints they have been asked to deal with, along with the outcomes. This will mean looking for evidence that the process is fair, rather than always being decided in favour of the casino.

eCogra finds for the player in around 40% of cases, so a similar figure should be found with CDS. If CDS for example, only find in favour of a player 2% of the time, it would be an indication that they are "fake".

I don't believe CDS are a "watchdog" site at all, but merely a subsidiary of RTG. They are some kind of "trade body" set up for operators, rather than players. They CANNOT be considered to reach their decisions in a "fair and independent manner" as we see with eCogra.

Given that the CDS website has developed a "convenient fault" that prevents players from appealing the initial findings, and that despite being notified to them via Bryan has STILL not been fixed, it seems they consider dealing with player complaints an unwelcome intrusion into their working day, which is to operate a kind of "club" for operators. Had dealing with player complaints been their main function, they would have given TOP priority to fixing the website problem that prevented many players from conducting their complaints through the proper channels.

Another "club" aspect to CDS is that only SOME RTG casinos can even have complaints submitted against them. Others can opt out of CDS altogether, leaving players ONLY with the "Costa Rican gambling authorities" for protection Casinos opting out of CDS are also going to ignore PABs and representations from other player representation bodies.

[SlotMonster]

LOL, I saw "Viktor" and thought you are talking about me

[greasemonkey]

Yes, lets please out these fraudsters for what they really are!

I had submitted a claim against Cleopatras/Royal Sands and they didn't even bother making up some far fetched excuse for me. They simply said that they worked out a deal to return my deposit (winning deposits only of course). That was 6 months ago and I have not seen the money. It took almost a full year for them to "reach their conclusion"....which Victor did not care to mention what they found that I had done wrong. LOL. Actually, he didn't even say there was an accusation that I did anything wrong, just that he decided to opt on the casinos side and return my deposits which he conveniently has not done. Also, he openly lies about his software "glitch".

I had 2 other complaints with CDS. One has went unanswered for over a year after a few initial questions, then they would say they would close the case if I didn't respond (even though the site will not allow you to respond) then I would open a new case just to reply to the old case and it was a vicious cycle. They finally just stopped responding or doing anything about it. The 2nd they simply came back with stating that I broke the terms and thus would lose all bonus and deposit moneys. The funny part was that I didn't use a bonus. When I opened a new thread with them to dispute it they said that the case was closed and never responded again... they are pure BS.

There was a conversation about the silliness of CDS here: http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/...41931-cds.html

They truly are fake and should be rogued. Victor takes us all for idiots as he stalls and never helps the player. Obviously from the OP, he doesnt even keep the same theme or Lie going on behalf of the casino.

I think it makes THIS site look bad to not have them rogued.

[vinylweatherman]

Yes, lets please out these fraudsters for what they really are!

I had submitted a claim against Cleopatras/Royal Sands and they didn't even bother making up some far fetched excuse for me. They simply said that they worked out a deal to return my deposit (winning deposits only of course). That was 6 months ago and I have not seen the money. It took almost a full year for them to "reach their conclusion"....which Victor did not care to mention what they found that I had done wrong. LOL. Actually, he didn't even say there was an accusation that I did anything wrong, just that he decided to opt on the casinos side and return my deposits which he conveniently has not done. Also, he openly lies about his software "glitch".

I had 2 other complaints with CDS. One has went unanswered for over a year after a few initial questions, then they would say they would close the case if I didn't respond (even though the site will not allow you to respond) then I would open a new case just to reply to the old case and it was a vicious cycle. They finally just stopped responding or doing anything about it. The 2nd they simply came back with stating that I broke the terms and thus would lose all bonus and deposit moneys. The funny part was that I didn't use a bonus. When I opened a new thread with them to dispute it they said that the case was closed and never responded again... they are pure BS.

There was a conversation about the silliness of CDS here: http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/...41931-cds.html

They truly are fake and should be rogued. Victor takes us all for idiots as he stalls and never helps the player. Obviously from the OP, he doesnt even keep the same theme or Lie going on behalf of the casino.

I think it makes THIS site look bad to not have them rogued.

This would be enough to expose this as a fake watchdog site. Despite there being no accusation, let alone evidence, that you did anything wrong, the fact that the casino could decide not to pay, and CDS simply had to roll over and accept this, and try (and then fail) to "cut a deal" that merely saw the return of your deposit, shows that they are NOT a genuine mediation service. Even if they wanted to be, they have NO powers whatsoever to back up any decisions, so for an "easy life" they have a vested interest in backing the casino. They make the LGA look good

If the LGA can get TWO Casinomeister awards for regulatory incompetence, I think we should nominate CDS to ensure Malta have a real fight on their hands this year, rather than have them smugly retaining their award for the third year running

What we need now is a few "case studies" in order to get the hard evidence needed to back this assertion that CDS are deliberately "faking it" as did Safebet before them, or are merely incompetent. It DOES make a difference, it's two separate awards categories

[Nifty29]

AFAIC anyone who plays at royal sands, cleopatras etc deserves what they get.....especially when they've been around long enough to know.

CDS is a joke, we all know that, but to suggest that THIS site looks "bad" for NOT listing them as rogue is an even bigger joke.

Funny how most players never need CDS or complaint resolution services, and others seem to need them quite frequently. I wonder why?

[jetset]

The burden of empirical evidence we see here from time to time on CDS appears to me to suggest that this body has very serious shortcomings which reflect badly on its parent group (?) RTG.

That being the case, I'm surprised that the (safe) RTG sites representatives here have not joined the conversation or begun a dialogue with RTG to try and at the very least sort out some of the more obvious shortcomings of this so-called player service.

I doubt that CDS will come right by being named on the Casinomeister 2011 worst list, although that's a good start. A serious complaint by the better RTG-powered casino owners on the other hand may have a better chance of making RTG consider the present inefficiency and general uselessness of CDS.

[vinylweatherman]

The burden of empirical evidence we see here from time to time on CDS appears to me to suggest that this body has very serious shortcomings which reflect badly on its parent group (?) RTG.

That being the case, I'm surprised that the (safe) RTG sites representatives here have not joined the conversation or begun a dialogue with RTG to try and at the very least sort out some of the more obvious shortcomings of this so-called player service.

I doubt that CDS will come right by being named on the Casinomeister 2011 worst list, although that's a good start. A serious complaint by the better RTG-powered casino owners on the other hand may have a better chance of making RTG consider the present inefficiency and general uselessness of CDS.

This is the main problem. They are NOT independent, and have clearly been set up with NO powers in order to allow the "whitewash" of RTG casinos' reputations who use CDS as a vehicle to legitimise their decisions. The reputable casinos have been quiet on the matter, but also seem to have "voted with their feet" by engaging with the PAB process here, and probably similar processes at other forums.

If CDS make a decision the casino doesn't like, there is nothing they can do to enforce it. Here at least, failure to take heed of a PAB resolution can lead to a casino being thrown in the pit, and whilst many may act like CM is so unimportant that they don't care, they suddenly DO care when they find Bryan has followed through and made a formal rogue announcement.

The pit isn't only there to bring operators to their senses, it is to warn players where NOT to play, hence those casinos that use CDS to get away with rogue actions are themselves in the pit. Roguing CDS under "fake watchdog" may not bring RTG to it's senses, but it will warn players that they are NOT as protected as the CDS seal leads them to believe, and that they should look for a casino that offers alternatives, such as being licensed where there is actually a gambling regulator that offers proper gambling licenses and gives players access to an INDEPENDENT mediation service, such as the PAB process here and similar services elsewhere in the online gambling community.

Malta's LGA have effectively been rogued through the awards process, and whilst it has done little to bring them to their senses so far, it has taught the player community that they cannot rely on the LGA if they have a problem. Kahnawake WERE eventually brought to their senses after years of being seen as a "fake watchdog/regulator" so dependent on the income from license fees that they dared not rule against one of it's licensees in favour of a player.

[greasemonkey]

AFAIC anyone who plays at royal sands, cleopatras etc deserves what they get.....especially when they've been around long enough to know.

CDS is a joke, we all know that, but to suggest that THIS site looks "bad" for NOT listing them as rogue is an even bigger joke.

Funny how most players never need CDS or complaint resolution services, and others seem to need them quite frequently. I wonder why?

Why would you even post something that you KNOW will offend?
You just lure people in to flame wars with off based, devoid of facts, comments like this. Of course, I am sure that you are aware of that already as it seems to be your purpose here. I wonder why that is?

Regardless, I will explain to you that perhaps I played at these sites PRIOR to joining casinomeister. Have you even thought of that prospect or considered it? Probably not as your posts to me are always quick to offend and slow to reason.
I care how this site looks for your information. Perhaps that is also why I think it looks bad to have content on this site that actually tells people to contact them. They are fake and a "joke" as you put it. Then if that is the case it DOES make this site look bad for recommending them. I am here in logicville. Come visit some time.