Eurolinx, BetOnBet, and Linx Casino gone into liquidation!!!

[nenad]

microgaming owns eurolinx?je remme is owner of eurolinx?and what i shoold do as betonbet sportsbook player?

[spiderlegz]

Marc"myst"Karam, Eurolinx sponsored player, recently posted his story at 2+2. Very interesting and gives a hint when EL started to go downwards. In June 2008, so way before they bought BetOnBet and started Linx Casino.
Can be found here: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...62&postcount=1

Also one affected player actually got a response from MG which was the following:

Thank you for your e-mail.

We are shocked and saddened that this has happened to one of our licensees.

We are currently unable to discuss anything regarding the situation as we are still waiting on further information ourselves. Information will be released as and when it becomes available.

Please understand that Microgaming’s activities are limited to providing software and poker network services. In keeping with the practises of other service providers, whether software or otherwise, Microgaming does not manage the business activities of its operators. Microgaming does not have any right to see the financial records or accounts of its operators.

Microgaming does not (and is not permitted to) hold player funds. We recommend that you lodge a claim directly with the liquidator as and when information becomes available. Microgaming will be taking this course of action, as should all creditors.

Thank you once again for your e-mail.

Microgaming

So they say they are shocked. Really? Several players reported months ago about problems with EL/BOB.

They say they just provide the network and software. And whats the BS about not being permitted to hold player funds? That should be the practice for every poker network. Still they handle the site to site transfers, banning etc.
And about not being permitted to see any finacial records of their licensees. So basically every non-traded casino or poker room can go bust the next day without MG having a clue. Just start a casino or poker room and start to scam people. And EL/BOB would probably still be operating if they hadnt "invited" MG to their offices.


And to those that have their rolls there. There probably will not be any liquidation. Because theres apparently so little money left that it wouldnt be enough to pay the liquidators.
Have a "semi"friend that managed to dump his entire roll of ~8k. Wonder how much dumping went on over the summer?

Edit: so if you want to be safe playing at MG choose a PLC. 32Red, Unibet or Ladbrokes.

It seems that the above assumption was right. Its over 2 months since they went belly up and no sign of any liquidators.

Does anyone know if theres been any progress with LGA (any former BetOnBet player)?

And I didnt keep my own word "Had" to reopen my 32Red account.

[paul02085]

This industry is full of criminals. If you want to keep your money i suggest staying away from ALL online casinos and poker rooms.

[vinylweatherman]

Have a "semi"friend that managed to dump his entire roll of ~8k. Wonder how much dumping went on over the summer?

This has me thinking, none of the money actually existed at Eurolinx, they were bust. If balances were dumped from Eurolinx to other SOLVENT skins in the network, how did THESE skins get their money, and are THEY hurting from the money arriving from Eurolinx players to theirs having no actual value in the real world. When players come to cash the money out, it had better have value, but who is going to pay?

IF MGS argue that the money in balances at individual operators is NOT protected by any kind of "ring fencing", yet expect DIFFERENT operators to trust in the network when this money moves BETWEEN the different operators, how exactly is this working so that OPERATORS are protected, yet PLAYERS are NOT.

Something isn't adding up here, or does money NEVER move between different operators, so this is never an issue.

[Webzcas]

IF MGS argue that the money in balances at individual operators is NOT protected by any kind of "ring fencing", yet expect DIFFERENT operators to trust in the network when this money moves BETWEEN the different operators, how exactly is this working so that OPERATORS are protected, yet PLAYERS are NOT.

I have blogged about this on my forum. Here is a snippet.

Now as an affiliate and I might add a player, I find it incredulous that Microgaming have somehow let their once high standards drop, allowing their players and affiliates of microgaming powered online casinos which have gone to the wall left hung out to dry.

The casino that has gone to the wall most recently is EuroLinx.

Microgaming charge a high percentage on profit of all their operators each and every month. They have a moral obligation to ensure the players at Eurolinx get paid out in full. They also could have stopped Grand Prive stealing the monies from all their affiliate partners. Yet they have done nothing, absolutely nothing.

Shame on you Microgaming. Your inaction is a bad reflection on your decent upstanding operators. Who should be mortified that your lack of leadership on these issues is indirectly affecting them.

[spiderlegz]

This has me thinking, none of the money actually existed at Eurolinx, they were bust. If balances were dumped from Eurolinx to other SOLVENT skins in the network, how did THESE skins get their money, and are THEY hurting from the money arriving from Eurolinx players to theirs having no actual value in the real world. When players come to cash the money out, it had better have value, but who is going to pay?

IF MGS argue that the money in balances at individual operators is NOT protected by any kind of "ring fencing", yet expect DIFFERENT operators to trust in the network when this money moves BETWEEN the different operators, how exactly is this working so that OPERATORS are protected, yet PLAYERS are NOT.

Something isn't adding up here, or does money NEVER move between different operators, so this is never an issue.

MG obviously holds part of the money to ensure the site to site transfers goes smoothly. In TUSK they held some 300k+ which was returned to TUSK after the termination of the license.
And as there arent any games at nosebleed level thats not a problem. At that level a single player can lose over 1 million/day.

MG apparently takes 17% of the rake generated. I know some players had earned MG far more rake than they are owed, in both cases (TUSK and Linx).

And MG will never step up, its not worth it. In TUSK players are owed 5,3 million AUD and in Eurolinx/BetOnBet the numbers are most likely much higher. Checked at one Finnish RB affiliate, a quick estimation gave some 300-400k (€) owed to those players already.

So I think Im not exaggerating when I believe the total owed is well over 10 million. Given how little publicity both cases have got you will never see MG bailing them out. Even if they are to blame quite much in both cases.

[vinylweatherman]

MG obviously holds part of the money to ensure the site to site transfers goes smoothly. In TUSK they held some 300k+ which was returned to TUSK after the termination of the license.
And as there arent any games at nosebleed level thats not a problem. At that level a single player can lose over 1 million/day.

MG apparently takes 17% of the rake generated. I know some players had earned MG far more rake than they are owed, in both cases (TUSK and Linx).

And MG will never step up, its not worth it. In TUSK players are owed 5,3 million AUD and in Eurolinx/BetOnBet the numbers are most likely much higher. Checked at one Finnish RB affiliate, a quick estimation gave some 300-400k (€) owed to those players already.

So I think Im not exaggerating when I believe the total owed is well over 10 million. Given how little publicity both cases have got you will never see MG bailing them out. Even if they are to blame quite much in both cases.

Take my argument to the extreme; what if EVERY player had somehow got wind of this, and ALL balances at Eurolinx were "dumped" to accounts at other, fully solvent, operators. These OPERATORS would be EXPECTING the money to be "good", as they would be required to pay it out to their players. If MGS do not have the money in a "ring fence" somewhere, this scenario could lead to complete DISASTER, with SOLVENT operators being dragged into insolvency through being unable to make good the money won from players in the insolvent operator.
Since this keeps on happening, and TWICE now with MGS, we will see more players getting "twitchy" when things just don't seem right, and MORE in the way of this "dumping" taking place. This could actually CREATE a problem when the issues causing the initial "twitchiness" were NOTHING to do with another operator going bust, but purely down to the "twice bitten, thrice shy" attitude of players to some operational issues, like the operator losing it's internet connection for a while, then it returning with "problems".

[spiderlegz]

Take my argument to the extreme; what if EVERY player had somehow got wind of this, and ALL balances at Eurolinx were "dumped" to accounts at other, fully solvent, operators. These OPERATORS would be EXPECTING the money to be "good", as they would be required to pay it out to their players. If MGS do not have the money in a "ring fence" somewhere, this scenario could lead to complete DISASTER, with SOLVENT operators being dragged into insolvency through being unable to make good the money won from players in the insolvent operator.
Since this keeps on happening, and TWICE now with MGS, we will see more players getting "twitchy" when things just don't seem right, and MORE in the way of this "dumping" taking place. This could actually CREATE a problem when the issues causing the initial "twitchiness" were NOTHING to do with another operator going bust, but purely down to the "twice bitten, thrice shy" attitude of players to some operational issues, like the operator losing it's internet connection for a while, then it returning with "problems".

Chipdumping isnt that easy, if you dont wanna get caught. The player I mentioned did it over a period of two weeks, and he played pretty much his normal limits. Altough if you were caught it was definitely an EV+ situation to at least try.

And MG surely was watching the action at tables more carefully, they must have been aware that players were desperate.

The funds arent actually immediately withdrawable, at least not at Ladbrokes. Edit: Someone who knows better could comment.

Its interesting what you mentioned if in future there would be, lets say GENUINE processing problems. How would players act? Altough I dont see why anyone would still play at MG network.

One site was most likely quite close to bust recently (at least they were bleeding heavily), they recently changed ownership. But what I know they would have had the players money ringfenced.

[vinylweatherman]

Chipdumping isnt that easy, if you dont wanna get caught. The player I mentioned did it over a period of two weeks, and he played pretty much his normal limits. Altough if you were caught it was definitely an EV+ situation to at least try.

And MG surely was watching the action at tables more carefully, they must have been aware that players were desperate.

The funds arent actually immediately withdrawable, at least not at Ladbrokes. Edit: Someone who knows better could comment.

Its interesting what you mentioned if in future there would be, lets say GENUINE processing problems. How would players act? Altough I dont see why anyone would still play at MG network.

One site was most likely quite close to bust recently (at least they were bleeding heavily), they recently changed ownership. But what I know they would have had the players money ringfenced.

If MGS had ACTED as though they knew, they could become liable for damages for failing to use their "knowing" to step in & protect players' funds. MGS, in the case of TUSK, claim they acted as soon as they knew, which they claim was when the licencee informed them that they intended to go into liquidation.
There are a few other non-MGS poker rooms that have "disappeared" without notice, and players fear that these too have gone bust. Every time this happens, and players get screwed, the trust in online poker is chipped away. Eurolinx seems to be the first time an MG CASINO has gone bust, and NOT been swiftly taken over by another group who honoured players' balances. The two cases before, Integrity & Casino Action, were both rescued by Casino Rewards, who probably have a serious case of indigestion by now, and so cannot manage Eurolinx casino for desert.

[spiderlegz]

If MGS had ACTED as though they knew, they could become liable for damages for failing to use their "knowing" to step in & protect players' funds. MGS, in the case of TUSK, claim they acted as soon as they knew, which they claim was when the licencee informed them that they intended to go into liquidation.
There are a few other non-MGS poker rooms that have "disappeared" without notice, and players fear that these too have gone bust. Every time this happens, and players get screwed, the trust in online poker is chipped away. Eurolinx seems to be the first time an MG CASINO has gone bust, and NOT been swiftly taken over by another group who honoured players' balances. The two cases before, Integrity & Casino Action, were both rescued by Casino Rewards, who probably have a serious case of indigestion by now, and so cannot manage Eurolinx casino for desert.

They definitely knew about the problems (well maybe not officially). Many had reported about them as early as in May. EL/BOB actually invited them (MG) to their offices after which the license was terminated (somewhat similar to TUSK).

And EurolinxLydia went over to MG in, I think it was June, but apparently she was later sacked. Dont know if she ever told anything about the situation over at EL/BOB, if not shame on you Lydia M.

Once again just shows that MG doesnt have any clue whatsoever what their licensees are doing. As long as they get their cash everything is fine.

And I see it very unlikely that anyone wants to take over the casino, the player base is likely small and of little value. Your account at Casino Action probably was worth more than all the Linx accounts together