SUSPENSION OF eCOGRA SEALS

[jetset]

Rob, are you aware that the eCOGRA press release was widely and publicly distributed throughout the industry media?

It was carried on most of the information portals and online media websites and constitutes the nearest thing to an out and out public warning that I can think of.

That same press release is up on the eCOGRA website, too and as you point out it went out on the opt-in email system of that organisation.

There was not much more they could do to get the word out that the "Safe and Fair" seals were suspended and that these sites were no longer accredited.

I can think of several reasons why it was not possible to specify the reasons behind the seals suspension, and as a businessman I'm sure you can too, but the very fact that the seals were pulled and a public notification made suggests a cause for player caution to me.

In contrast to that, how much communication with the players have you seen from Tusk?

Edited to add:

Speaking of communication, have you seen the latest FGA report which was released to the media earlier this week? It contains some interesting statistics that I believe give the lie to those who claim that eCOGRA is "a puppet" that dances to the tune of its operators.

[chuchu59]

This case is akin to a bank consistently being able to hold enough reserves to meet the minimum threshold required against customers' deposits as required by a Banking Authority. I cannot fault eCOGRA for this because no matter how much or little they disclosed, they are bound to be in for criticism for either jumping the gun or being tortoise-slow. However, I am disappointed by MG. Unless I am mistaken ,their statement did not mention anything about the account balances of players. They must have known much earlier that the software licence was going to be terminated yet they were did not issue anything other than it is gathering all facts and will provide further announcements as and when information becomes available. Surely this isnt good enough to address players' concerns. Shouldnt they be giving at least an indication as to what steps they contemplate taking to retrieve the players' account balances for them.

[RobWin]

[QUOTE]

Rob, are you aware that the eCOGRA press release was widely and publicly distributed throughout the industry media?

Yea, I was aware that eCOGRA did release this publicly throughout the industry media, but I guess what I am trying to point out is the fact that there are so many players out there that don't get or don't know where to go and read about industry media releases. I just think that eCOGRA could go a step further in communicating these issues to the player community.

It was carried on most of the information portals and online media websites and constitutes the nearest thing to an out and out warning that I can think of.

My only rebuttal to that Jet would be that there are thousands of players out there that actually don't understand the seriousness of pulling Seals from a casino group like you and I understand them, and I guess they need to educate their-self more on this issue but at the same time I could visualize an eCOGRA organization that could help this process along.

That same press release is up on the eCOGRA website, too and as you point out it went out on the opt-in email system of that organisation.

There was not much more they could do to get the word out that the "Safe and Fair" seals were suspended and that these sites were no longer accredited.

Yes you are correct and I did find it under the "News Tab" but with an issue as serious as this one to actually pull a groups Seals I would expect as a proper player warning for that to be listed on eCOGRA's Homepage...

I can think of several reasons why it was not possible to specify the reasons behind the seals suspension, and as a businessman I'm sure you can too, but the very fact that the seals were pulled and a public notification made suggests a cause for player caution to me.

Yes, I agree that that does suggest a cause for player caution to me and like you said I'm sure there are several reasons why it was not possible to specify the reasons behind the seals suspension at the time...but now with this group apparently folding and the fact that it is two weeks later I think it would be in eCOGRA's best interest as far as the player community is concerned to come forth now and let us all in on what actually went down...

In contrast to that, how much communication with the players have you seen from Tusk?

Absolutely none of any significance other than that statement the Rep came in this thread and made about it is "Still Business As Usual"...so no rebuttal or debate from me on that point Jet...you are absolutely correct...

[jetset]

There's only so much an organisation can do to publicise this sort of thing industry-wide, and I have to admit I'm stumped to think of any further moves eCOGRA could have made to inform the public than they did.

I would hope to see a similar effort made by Tusk, or at the very least communication with their registered players advising them on what is happening here and the way forward. Perhaps Tusk players will keep us informed.

In that regard it intrigues me that eCOGRA and MGS are catching flak for doing the right thing here, whilst Tusk's culpability is virtually unmentioned.

My own view coincides with that of chuchu's, and I believe that Tusk's notification to Microgaming that it intends to seek liquidation not only confirms the value of the early suspension of the seals, but suggests that this was/is a considerable business problem from which they have belatedly realised they are unlikely to emerge.

[vinylweatherman]

I suspect eCogra did not know much more than MG did at the time. It seems that the suspension of the seals WAS INDEED a SERIOUS matter, far more serious indeed than the Jackpot Factory issue.

This is probably a rare circumstance, BUT, we will learn from this, and so will the industry. NEXT TIME eCogra suspend their seals and we experience a vacuum of information both from them and the casino other than assurances of a "minor administrative problem", it's going to be a case of "get to the lifeboats now!". There will be no continuing to play in the belief that all will be sorted out in due course.

I was cautious at first, but when I successfully cashed out last Thursday I played "properly" on Monday and Tuesday, cashing out via instant payments as usual. This also went smoothly, and my final removal of £200 on Wednesday was only hours before the announcement.

Perhaps eCogra were also fed a story by Tusk, one that made it believe they would redress the shortcomings and get their seals back, as was the case when Jackpot Factory lost it's seals.

Had the player community reacted to the loss of Jackpot Factory seals by refusing to deposit till the seals were restored, they would also have gone bust.

In future, casino groups will have to be VERY CAREFUL about keeping their seals, as even a brief suspension is probably going to drive them out of business while this incident is fresh in players' minds.

ANY casino in future that loses it's seals will NOT be given the benefit of the doubt by me again, this was a close shave, as I could have faced quite a wait for the £2200 had I decided to let it sit around for Today's tournament.

I Emailed their CS about the failure with claiming the comp points, and got the automatic receipt, but no reply, highly unlike the 30 minutes they normally take. Either they are inundated, or they have simply shut up shop to await the procedure of liquidation, and possible onward sale of the affected casinos and poker rooms, which will come with a good player base - so probably an attractive prospect for a WELL FUNDED company.

[Jody Nustedt]

experience a vacuum of information both from them and the casino

The lack of information was far-reaching. On 2p2, Battlefield and Red 9s were seemingly unaware of the situation until players reported problems to them.

[chuchu59]

Battlefield is still in operation.

[Mousey]

I uninstalled Nostalgia (the only one of these casinos I'd installed on my new computer) when I learned eCogra had pulled the seals. However.... I'm still a registered player at most (if not all) the Casino Action casinos. Excuse me, but where is my email from at least one casino in this group telling me WTF is going on?

[chalupa]

I don't quite understand the interconnections between the companies, but as I understand it Tusk is the place holding the money?

If that's the case, does anyone have any thoughts on whether it would be better to request a withdrawal, in the hope that it gets paid before Tusk goes belly-up, or to leave the balance in my account in the hopes that Microgaming makes good on it?

I'd like to avoid my withdrawal going into a "pending" state where it disappears from the Microgaming network into Tusks coffers, never to be seen again. I have $4K at one of the poker sites.

[c_note]

I am not usually against Ecogra, but if I go to any of the Casino Action sites listed in the press release, and click on the ecogra seals, according to the response the casinos are still accredited by Ecogra..

Challenge Casino website has a seal linked to :
http://www.ecogra.org/certificates/%...nge_Casino.jpg

Music Hall Casino :
http://www.ecogra.org/certificates/%...all_Casino.jpg

I think ECOGRA need a spanking email. Irrespective of everything else going on, these images should have been yanked the minute the seals were suspended.