Vegas2Web Unacceptable Delays

[Mousey]

Look, uh. This might not be a popular thing to say, and don't take it the wrong way, because I think they must pay you no matter what the rules are. But, have you thought about that you're basically asking them to commit a crime for you? You assume they're going to break the law of the richest & most powerful country in the world to send you a check, a country where for the last ten years, one congress after another has put out laws banning exactly what you're doing. But they're going to have the honor to hold up their end of the bargain you made when you won their money. Why? If a casino is still doing business in the US, it's already rogue. At least, that's what American law says.

I still think what they're doing is a joke, but the more I think about this stuff -- and as an American expatriate -- why do Americans think it's OK to keep breaking the law in their own country and then taking no responsibility for the law being the way it is? Every city around the country right now has Occupy Wall Street protesters outside the banks. Ron Paul is 3rd in the polls although you'd never know it if you watched the debates or the MSM. It's fine for a guy at Goldman Sachs to gamble billions of dollars of taxpayer money, he doesn't wait for his check, and meanwhile you're having to deal with what's basically the mafia and months of lies and bullshit to get back a couple hundred bucks. I know you want your money and I agree you have a right to it, but maybe you should get out in the street in the meantime and tell the government how pissed off you are about this state of affairs, because all of this comes from the corruption that lets a few fat cats run the world and nickel-and-dime the rest of us to death!

Point 1: Casino processors break the law by accepting our deposits. Turn about fair play. They take our money, they must pay out withdrawals. Donations should be made to charities -- not casinos. If casinos have any concerns about breaking the UIGEA 'law', they should not accept USA deposits, nor encourage them with bonuses and promos.

And if casinos accept USA deposits, there must be reasonable methods of withdrawal for same USA players in place.

I found all the hoop jumping extremely tiring long ago and quit.

Point 2: As a player, I do not feel that gambling online is illegal (unless specified by state laws). I am not a bank or processor. (Gotta love that stupid UIGEA). I personally take no responsibility for 'the way things are' as I voted and the majority of the people I voted for are not in office. I have written numerous letters and made phone calls to local and state politicians -- as have many, many others on this board. That IS what this thread is about (gambling).

(Political rants have their own section. :-)

And, frankly, online gambling isn't something most voters consider when voting.

You want to get out in the streets. Come back and then go right ahead. (I did my part in the '60's/'70's)

And if a mod wants to break these posts off to the political section... have at it... before it turns into the equivalent of a high school food fight. LOL

[jstrike]

And if casinos accept USA deposits, there must be reasonable methods of withdrawal for same USA players in place.

I totally agree, and I'm not trying to say they don't have a responsibility to hold up their end of the deal. I mean, they have a moral obligation that goes beyond the law in this case, to provide a withdrawal. And I'm not saying players are committing crimes here. All I'm sayin is, a snake is a snake. Depositing with a casino that's already breaking the law of the land is asking for trouble. It's basically like mailing $100 to a drug dealer and hoping they mail back weed. Shockingly enough, if you look at what's been going on with Silk Road, they actually do mail back weed enough of the time for Congress to start investigating it. But it wouldn't be too surprising if they just ran off with your money because hey, they're drug dealers.

I shouldn't have turned this into a political rant, that's just my frustration with the system, 'cause the system's corrupt. But we don't live in a free-and-open market where the best casino with the fairest games and the best RTP gets your business. We live in one where the best and most respectable casinos wouldn't touch the US with a ten foot pole, so what's left are the ones that were shady operators to start off with. That's all I'm really saying. And I'm not blaming the victim -- she has every right to her money if they have to deliver it to her personally. I'm agreeing with you they shouldn't be in a business where they take people's money and can't pay back.

Hell, I don't even know what I'm saying. Whole thing just makes me angry is all.

[Mousey]

I totally agree, and I'm not trying to say they don't have a responsibility to hold up their end of the deal. I mean, they have a moral obligation that goes beyond the law in this case, to provide a withdrawal. And I'm not saying players are committing crimes here. All I'm sayin is, a snake is a snake. Depositing with a casino that's already breaking the law of the land is asking for trouble. It's basically like mailing $100 to a drug dealer and hoping they mail back weed. Shockingly enough, if you look at what's been going on with Silk Road, they actually do mail back weed enough of the time for Congress to start investigating it. But it wouldn't be too surprising if they just ran off with your money because hey, they're drug dealers.

I shouldn't have turned this into a political rant, that's just my frustration with the system, 'cause the system's corrupt. But we don't live in a free-and-open market where the best casino with the fairest games and the best RTP gets your business. We live in one where the best and most respectable casinos wouldn't touch the US with a ten foot pole, so what's left are the ones that were shady operators to start off with. That's all I'm really saying. And I'm not blaming the victim -- she has every right to her money if they have to deliver it to her personally. I'm agreeing with you they shouldn't be in a business where they take people's money and can't pay back.

Hell, I don't even know what I'm saying. Whole thing just makes me angry is all.

I fully understand. The whole insane situation makes me so mad I could spit. When the DOJ ran off the best, licensed, most reputable casinos with the NETeller fiasco and the UIGEA, they threw us (usa players) to the wolves. I stayed with it for awhile... They weren't gonna stop ME from throwing away $25 at online casinos.... LOL But the risks (money seized, etc., etc.) outgrew the enjoyment level.

There is indeed risk playing online now... unfortunately, for those who stick with reputable casinos... the risk primarily comes from our own government seizing funds and arresting processors.

We are in a pickle. Between a rock and a hard place ... etc.

Personally, (and this isn't going to be a popular notion, either) I think it would be better for all USA players if ALL online casinos locked us out. Done. Kaput. But, you know what? There would still be the Virtuals and rip off joints from the Ukraine or Ministering Angels types that would happily take any desperate player's action.

At any rate... back on topic... if a casino takes our bet, they are obligated to have a method to pay us.

[cpdnd31]

OK Here is latest. I finally received check who hooo. However had to go on grid and open actual checking acct. Why you may ask. It's a foreign check. ROFL yep it's Canadian Bank. I tried everywhere to cash it and they laughed at me lol..So had no choice but to open and deposit.. Well I got paid but after talking to Canadian bank they said there banking rules are different then ours. To play it smart and not touch the funds for at least 30 business days.. That's ok I can wait it out..


Now Jstrike I have thought about how I wanted to respond to your statements..

At first I was like hey no fair, you know there are casinos out there that don't pay no matter what country your from. Example Nifty in this same thread.

I agree with you. Yes I deposit, yes I play, yes I should no better. However they took my money by doing this they are saying it's OK we know where you are from and we will pay you. They advertised and marketed me. I didn't hunt them down. I was completely happy with the other places I play. (they were in the wrong holding payments I wasn't the only one they did it too and I hope you agree).

My next comment is WHY SHOULD I BE HELD TO A HIGHER STANDARD THEN MY OWN GOVERNMENT? When the politicians in my country quit defrauding cheating and just being asses then I will quit gaming. But hey if they can break the law why can't I. I know 2 wrongs don't make a right but is what I'm doing any worse then the scandals that have rocked our nation?

Look at what has happened with our banking system? Let's look at those scandals. How many people have lost homes, been hit with fee's for them to hold our money. Let's look at the million dollar paychecks and parties that they throw. So in perspective me charging 50.00 a week or what ever amount really so bad.

Bottom line yes I know what I do is wrong hell it sucks what we have to do but compared to the bigger picture it's really not that bad is it?

My final thought is if your a casino and you know I'm from America, if you take my bet you need to pay my winnings. It's an unwritten contract of yeah what were doing is wrong and what your doing is wrong but hey if you don't mind neither do we.

This message is not to offend it's just my thoughts please don't bash TY.

[jstrike]

Hey, I'm not saying you're in the wrong at all! I'm definitely not trying to bash you. I really hope you didn't take what I said the wrong way.

I don't think there's anything wrong with gambling, just like I don't think there's anything wrong with running a fair casino. You can't compare gambling at all to the illegal, immoral thievery that happens in Washington and Wall Street. Gambling's an agreement between consenting adults, as long as the player knows what they're getting. I don't think it's a question of right or wrong at all, actually. The law against it is just a way for banks and government and Vegas to control and steal your money. The law is wrong. This casino was wrong to take your bet if they couldn't pay you out. They acted immorally and illegally. But immoral and illegal, in this case, are two separate things.

See, although I think what they did was both immoral and illegal, it didn't have to be both. It's a bad law, it's unconstitutional and it's anti-liberty, it takes away your freedom and it puts more money in the pockets of corrupt state lottery officials. There's nothing immoral about breaking a bad law. Sometimes it's actually the right thing to do. On a practical level, though, it does say something about a company that's willing to do it. It says they aren't worried about getting caught. And all I was really getting at in my original post was, how can you ever completely trust someone that isn't worried about being caught for breaking a law? What can you actually do to them, if the US government can't even do anything to them? At that point, you're counting on them to be honorable criminals. And here, "criminal" does not mean "bad person", it just simply means someone who broke a law, good or bad. I can be a criminal in China just for saying "screw the communist party", that don't make me a bad person. I'm not even saying there aren't some honorable criminals out there, I mean a lot of casino sites take US players and really do put in a good faith effort to pay them out. Because they know where their bread's buttered. What gets me is that these laws make the situation less fair for players, and just like drug laws or gun bans, or like Prohibition did in the 1920s, they let all kinds of unethical people move in to fill the vacuum when legitimate, law-abiding businesses are banned, and suddenly you can't tell anymore who to trust and who not to. Take guns away from people and only criminals will have guns...why, because it's criminal to have a gun then, so automatically you can't trust people to do the right thing anymore. Take away casino's right to do business and you're left with unlicensed, unregulated, underground joints where you have to depend on the mafia's good will to pay their debts. In NYC, if a player wins too much, it could be cheaper to just throw 'em in the river.

The gov't bans all this stuff knowing full well that it's gonna give rise to a criminal element. That's the whole point, because when you have a criminal element everyone's afraid of, you can keep taxing the hell out of everybody and stuffing your pockets with it, and the taxes you take from the crooks doesn't get traced. It's total corruption.

I hope you see what I was getting at now, and that it wasn't meant as a knock on you. If I was still in America, I'd be looking for places I could trust to play at, too, and not feeling bad about it at all. It's just a sad fact that probably anyone you can play with from the US now is gonna be shady by definition, and the government's to blame for that.

[samoas]

OK Here is latest. I finally received check who hooo. However had to go on grid and open actual checking acct. Why you may ask. It's a foreign check. ROFL yep it's Canadian Bank. I tried everywhere to cash it and they laughed at me lol..So had no choice but to open and deposit.. Well I got paid but after talking to Canadian bank they said there banking rules are different then ours. To play it smart and not touch the funds for at least 30 business days.. That's ok I can wait it out..


Now Jstrike I have thought about how I wanted to respond to your statements..

At first I was like hey no fair, you know there are casinos out there that don't pay no matter what country your from. Example Nifty in this same thread.

I agree with you. Yes I deposit, yes I play, yes I should no better. However they took my money by doing this they are saying it's OK we know where you are from and we will pay you. They advertised and marketed me. I didn't hunt them down. I was completely happy with the other places I play. (they were in the wrong holding payments I wasn't the only one they did it too and I hope you agree).

My next comment is WHY SHOULD I BE HELD TO A HIGHER STANDARD THEN MY OWN GOVERNMENT? When the politicians in my country quit defrauding cheating and just being asses then I will quit gaming. But hey if they can break the law why can't I. I know 2 wrongs don't make a right but is what I'm doing any worse then the scandals that have rocked our nation?

Look at what has happened with our banking system? Let's look at those scandals. How many people have lost homes, been hit with fee's for them to hold our money. Let's look at the million dollar paychecks and parties that they throw. So in perspective me charging 50.00 a week or what ever amount really so bad.

Bottom line yes I know what I do is wrong hell it sucks what we have to do but compared to the bigger picture it's really not that bad is it?

My final thought is if your a casino and you know I'm from America, if you take my bet you need to pay my winnings. It's an unwritten contract of yeah what were doing is wrong and what your doing is wrong but hey if you don't mind neither do we.

This message is not to offend it's just my thoughts please don't bash TY.

I admire your patience and will be keeping my fingers crossed that all goes well and funds clear with no hassles.