Complain - no tourney prize

[vinylweatherman]

Well, they have not just stiffed one player, they have stiffed EVERY player, since whoever won the tournament would have ended up being the one player stiffed, and making the complaint.

How about if a player deposited and played $50, but then said, oops - didn't mean to do that, I'll contact my card company and have it back. This would easily be a "rogue player" without question.
This seems to be the argument this poker room has put forward for the action they have taken - they ran the tournament, but then decided they didn't mean to, and unwound it. The only proper resolution would be to stand by their word, honour the prizes, and make certain that internal procedures get a thorough overhaul to avoid finding themselves in a similar position later on.
Casinos and players alike must expect to he held to the same set of standards. ANY kind of reneging on a bet is a big NO! - be it by a casino OR a player. Once casinos start to get away with reneging on bets, then there is going to be LESS pressure on players to stick to THEIR word, and THEIR bets. Once it is allowed to become "socially acceptable" to renege on bets, the industry is in one hell of a lot of trouble. At present, there are many tales of casinos seeking ways to renege on bets, either directly, or by manufacturing reasons for non payment, yet it is much rarer to see rogue players, as those that appear are summarily shown the door, whereas casinos are given every chance to make amends and explain, and if their explanation is good, they can move on.

It's happening already. This year, it seems player fraud is endemic, yet when I started out it was rare. Something has gone badly wrong that has made it far more aceptable for players to attempt fraud, and indeed for players to seek ways they can turn back the clock when their bets don't win, be this via chargeback, or a bogus complaint, or even blackmail. Maybe increased rogue behaviour on the part of casinos has taught players that they are at a disadvantage if they are honest, and that they have to fight "dirty" with casinos in order to restore balance in the relationship.
Maybe a survey among known fraudulent players should form part of some research, after all, there has been research among the general and honest player base. It may be hard to encourage participation, although anonynimity can be assured.

[maxd]

Well, they have not just stiffed one player, they have stiffed EVERY player, since whoever won the tournament would have ended up being the one player stiffed, and making the complaint.....

Admirable mental gymnastics there VWM! It is my understanding that the runners-up were also compensated when the tourney was canceled.

[trade]

Admirable mental gymnastics there VWM! It is my understanding that the runners-up were also compensated when the tourney was canceled.

Max, I know you often are dealing with very frustrating situations and people... but when dealing with people who have English as a 2nd language, please be aware that idioms and expressions that you have used in this thread as an example, would potentially just confuse them further, or at the very least make them 2nd guess what you are saying.

Working with ESL people everyday who are highly educated and professional in their career, even though they may have lived in North America for 10 or more years, I have learned not to take communication for granted. I find that misunderstandings can happen and even be common- whether it is a language thing or due to cultural differences. Just a heads up, to help you reduce some avoidable frustrations that you might encounter if you aren't vigilent about using simple and clear language. ... at least in a thread which was started by someone such as this OP who was looking for guidance.

[maxd]

Thanks for taking the time to mention that, as someone from North America now living in Europe I do in fact deal with this very often, but I'm not sure what you are specifically referring to. Can you be more specific?

FWIW, I am aware that my speech (and writing) is full of idiomatic expressions. When I'm speaking to someone who may be in an ESL situation I do try to take that into account and speak in plainer terms.

On the other hand I think it's fair and proper to speak your language as you normally would when:

• - you are speaking to someone for whom English is their mother tongue (as much as VWM and I may differ we do have that in common), or
• - the idiomatic expressions are 'colour' and your point is made in plainer language elsewhere in the text and,
• - your audience may actually want to hear those idiomatic expressions as part of their ESL experience.

I would respectfully submit that all of the above apply here, and to most of what I post. If you disagree, or I have misunderstood your point, please feel free to elaborate.

[vinylweatherman]

Admirable mental gymnastics there VWM! It is my understanding that the runners-up were also compensated when the tourney was canceled.

How was it cancelled? Didn't the OP actually WIN

You can only cancel something that has not yet taken place, you cannot cancel something that has already happened. The only compensation due is the prizes as stated, since the event took place.
If this behaviour is deemed acceptable once, they will do it again as and when it suits them, this will add to the general decline in the integrity of the industry, and onlooking players are less likely to be indignant when it is a rogue PLAYER that stiffs a CASINO (or poker room). This may perhaps lead to a "Robin Hood" culture among players who see casinos getting away with all sorts of things, and admiring the few "Robin Hood" (or rogue/fraudulent) players that even the score on behalf of players.
Even now, what if there was such a "Robin Hood" figure that waded in and managed to shut down the whole Virtual group (pretty unlikely), would anybody shed a tear for Virtual, and would this person be condemed, or feted as a player hero, for ridding the industry of them. I am sure I would admire them for this good deed, but only for as long as they left the reputable casinos alone. The US Government want to be "Robin Hood" and shut them ALL down, although their motives are not so pure as our legendary Robin is portrayed as having.

[trade]

Thanks for taking the time to mention that, as someone from North America now living in Europe I do in fact deal with this very often, but I'm not sure what you are specifically referring to. Can you be more specific?

FWIW, I am aware that my speech (and writing) is full of idiomatic expressions. When I'm speaking to someone who may be in an ESL situation I do try to take that into account and speak in plainer terms.

On the other hand I think it's fair and proper to speak your language as you normally would when:

• - you are speaking to someone for whom English is their mother tongue (as much as VWM and I may differ we do have that in common), or
• - the idiomatic expressions are 'colour' and your point is made in plainer language elsewhere in the text and,
• - your audience may actually want to hear those idiomatic expressions as part of their ESL experience.

I would respectfully submit that all of the above apply here, and to most of what I post. If you disagree, or I have misunderstood your point, please feel free to elaborate.

Most of your communication with the OP is pretty straight forward... I think when you and VWM continued on, the OP would be pretty confused. With the exception of "Sorry bud, this issue ain't gonna be setting anybody's hair on fire" said to the OP might just not work so well on those language translators though!

[Casinomeister]

Most of your communication with the OP is pretty straight forward... I think when you and VWM continued on, the OP would be pretty confused. With the exception of "Sorry bud, this issue ain't gonna be setting anybody's hair on fire" said to the OP might just not work so well on those language translators though!

For shits and giggles I translated the following: "Sorry bud, this issue ain't gonna be setting anybody's hair on fire."

from English to Danish
from Danish to French
from French to Japanese
from Japanese to Serbian
from Serbian to German
from German to English and came up with this:

"Sorry bud, my hair is not firing all the problems."

Okay, everyone can go back to work now.

/derail

[maxd]

Ok, where's the emoticon for "too much wacky tabacky"?