What to do for help against Lock?

[reda]

i have read this entire thread and i may be naive but for some reason i believe smittyville and the others that came on here and complained.
when lock was removed off the accredited list here i imedialtley deleted them off my computer and have never looked back. now i know i made the right choice. its a shame players have to deal with this type of circumstances. this player is accused of being guilty of fraud and the player here( smittyville) is almost begging for some sort of proof from the casino to show this to him but yet the casino wont even respond. then CDS didnt even ask for proof of any sort. seems you just have to throw in the towel and give up. 2.000 dollars is a lot of money . and its hard to just walk away . in feb smittyville recieved his winnings. and lock has been taking his money since then. how come 6 months later they never told him he couldnt dep anymore?? why not tell him in this space of time they were closing his account due to fraud? At least then there would be no real money at stake in his account. but NOOO it wasnt until he had a 2.000 dollar withdrawl then it all comes out. Thats just my opinion. rant is over.

[smittytime]

i have read this entire thread and i may be naive but for some reason i believe smittyville and the others that came on here and complained.
when lock was removed off the accredited list here i imedialtley deleted them off my computer and have never looked back. now i know i made the right choice. its a shame players have to deal with this type of circumstances. this player is accused of being guilty of fraud and the player here( smittyville) is almost begging for some sort of proof from the casino to show this to him but yet the casino wont even respond. then CDS didnt even ask for proof of any sort. seems you just have to throw in the towel and give up. 2.000 dollars is a lot of money . and its hard to just walk away . in feb smittyville recieved his winnings. and lock has been taking his money since then. how come 6 months later they never told him he couldnt dep anymore?? why not tell him in this space of time they were closing his account due to fraud? At least then there would be no real money at stake in his account. but NOOO it wasnt until he had a 2.000 dollar withdrawl then it all comes out. Thats just my opinion. rant is over.

Thank you Reda! You are one of the few people who seem to "get it".

I have said from the beginning that I am willing to go live on webcam, to let them virtually look at my computer and see that there is only one casino account from me and as a matter of fact, while I am typing this I just thought:

I have a IP address that has never changed!! My IP has always been the same for months and months. So it would be IMPOSSIBLE for someone else to even have the same IP address correct? That should be proof in the bag right there! I have been using the same IP address forever and nobody would have used the same IP address unless they broke into my home and hooked up their pc to my modem and played at Lock just to screw me LOL! What a joke. This proof MUST be easily available to them. This makes me even more angry when I think of the obvious theft that is going on here with me. The proof that I am only one person and have not committed fraud should be undisputable at this point now that I think of it.

[vinylweatherman]

Thank you Reda! You are one of the few people who seem to "get it".

I have said from the beginning that I am willing to go live on webcam, to let them virtually look at my computer and see that there is only one casino account from me and as a matter of fact, while I am typing this I just thought:

I have a IP address that has never changed!! My IP has always been the same for months and months. So it would be IMPOSSIBLE for someone else to even have the same IP address correct? That should be proof in the bag right there! I have been using the same IP address forever and nobody would have used the same IP address unless they broke into my home and hooked up their pc to my modem and played at Lock just to screw me LOL! What a joke. This proof MUST be easily available to them. This makes me even more angry when I think of the obvious theft that is going on here with me. The proof that I am only one person and have not committed fraud should be undisputable at this point now that I think of it.

Well, you are in the USA, so the casinos has also "acted illegally" in taking your deposits, and allowing you to play. In the eyes of your government, they are criminals, yet in the eyes of the government from where they operate, they are doing nothing wrong.

What I can't understand is how an EXISTING player is no fraud for 6 months, and even gets paid several times, and is suddenly a fraud when they win again after a losing run.

I too have been investigated a few times, and in each case it was a MISTAKE. These fraud detection systems are seriously flawed, and there is little real comeback for players if the "official" adjudicators side with the operator.

CDS are not really independent. eCogra take on player disputes, and find for the player almost 50% of the time, and deal with REPUTABLE casinos.

CDS deal with RTG casinos, among them many rogue operators, yet they side with the player hardly at all. I simply don't believe that eCogra sealholders can get it wrong 40% to 50% of the time, and RTG casinos barely get it wrong 10% of the time, rogues included.

Most RTG casinos are not even licensed properly, they operate on a "company license", rather than a GAMING license, from Costa Rica.

UIGEA has driven almost all the reputable casinos out of the US, leaving RTG with a huge slice of the action.

[Kenny Lingus]

Two points here.

First of all, this is exactly why players should support up-front documentation. Any casino that required docs up-front before, say, the second deposit (or cashout on the original deposit) would eliminate most of the problems of the type experienced by the OP.

Secondly, this is really troubling to see from a previously accredited casino:

"Lock Casino Terms & Conditions:

Lock Casino reserves the right, in its total discretion, to void any winnings and withhold any balance in Lock Casino account under any of the following circumstances:

j. If the player is found to be using practices that have been deemed to be "Promotion Abuse"."

In the "Standards for Accredited Casinos" section of this website, in the "Operational Standards" list, it says:

"Must not confiscate winnings for vague & unclear reasons, such as "irregular playing patterns" or "bonus abuse", without specific T&C violations."

So how did they ever become accredited, considering their T&Cs?

[takethemoney]

I have read a few sites which have rogued or blacklisted Lock. Seems they are not getting better.

[smittytime]

What I can't understand is how an EXISTING player is no fraud for 6 months, and even gets paid several times, and is suddenly a fraud when they win again after a losing run.

.

Thank you.

[vinylweatherman]

Thank you.

Well, I have PERSONAL experience of this. Prime casino (where I have played for YEARS) paid my penultimate withdrawal for £6000+ without problems, as they have always done. I then cashed in my comps, got £30 & managed to work it up to £500 ON SLOTS ONLY, and withdrew having met WR. I heard nothing, and got nothing, for over a week. I queried this, and was told I was "under investigation".

I told them they had 14 days to conclude this, or I would ask eCogra to intervene since "deadlock" would be reached (defined as 14 days or more of getting nowhere with internal procedures). I was paid the next day, and uninstalled the casino.

Before this, Spin Palace asked for more documents after I had been playing for some YEARS. I contacted the rep, who admitted it was down to a mix-up of my account with that of another player with a SIMILAR (not the SAME) name.

Rushmore was cast into the pit for making such a mistake, and then refusing to budge when it was clearly demonstrated that a mistake HAD been made.

The casino has this "information", but none of it is 100% reliable. It is all based on probability flagging, and NOT 100% accurate data & verifiable documentation.

An example might be where they consider the probability that the same geographical location will generate more than x new players in a period of y weeks. If so many new players (x) sign up that the probability of this happening "by chance" gets too low, the accounts are flagged for further study in case there are players opening multiple accounts.

This can work pretty well as an INDICATOR, but what about when this happens in the same place as a long standing existing player, who has presumably already been verified. WHY do they ASSUME this loyal player is involved, rather than this being a number of fraudulent, but UNCONNECTED players, scamming the casino.

There is NEVER any proof presented in such cases, and "hearings" are held in secret, with the accused barred from hearing the evidence, let alone challenging it. We have to trust the adjudicators, who often DO get to see the evidence.

This works well for casinos, because if they had such cases heard in the courts, they would have to show their evidence to the accused (or their lawyer), and the accused could offer explanations to the presiding judge as to why he was NOT a fraud, even though the evidence suggested he might be.

My concern is that in my case I was FULLY VERIFIED, and even a VIP at Spin Palace Group, yet this offered NO protection from being tangled up in fraud investigations involving NEW players.

When players are "verified", we want a GUARANTEE that the casino now trusts us 100%, and will forever more honour our winnings, as they would take our losses, so long as the relationship lasts.

Casinos seem "hurt" when it seems that however hard they try, however accredited they become, there remain those players who say they will NEVER trust them. It is therefore hypocritical that they NEVER 100% trust their EXISTING players, no matter HOW verified they are, and how long they have been playing.

[all4greed]

...And this is why nobody trusts online casinos.

I got a reply back from Hastings disputes finally

They say that they have gotten documentation from the casino operator to support their claim and that they are ruling in favor of them....

I've reread this complete thread. Before I write anything else, did Hastings tell you exactly what the documentation showed?

[smittytime]

I've reread this complete thread. Before I write anything else, did Hastings tell you exactly what the documentation showed?

No not at all.
Actually, I tried to respond to them and when I attempt to via the website it will not submit my response. It is when you click on the "button" to hit send it doesnt respond. So I sent an email reply. Basically I outlined that their findings are just wrong and asked what they needed from me for proof. I also wanted to mention that if they actually investigated truly they would find that I have no link possible from my ewallet to my bank to my Ip to my mac to myself to any other account. However, since ruling on Lock's word they have yet to respond again. The bottom line is that if they or anyone else does a real investigation I will be proven innocent 100% no doubts, I'll bet anything on it because I know it to be for a fact.

[all4greed]

I honestly don't understand the fact that you can't get specifics on what the allegations were. Where's their proof? They need to prove to you that something indeed happened beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Are you not the customer?