Before I PAB - Club World

[hippo925]

Frankly I don't give a damn how senior a member you are here if you take it upon yourself to slag the site, willfully attempt to ridicule and belittle what it is we do and how we do it, and present nothing as evidence or supporting material.

Criticism based on facts can and will be addressed. Attempts to smear the site without actual evidence or specific supporting references -- yes, that's how it looks like from where I'm sitting -- will be decidedly less respectfully received, regardless of your rep points or whatever.

I respect your opinion on the membership here. I don't agree with it, but it is certainly your perogative as to how you view us. Over time, many members will disagree with you and even other members, but rest assured, it will usually be because a topic is important or interesting and there is a sincere intention to create dialogue or improve something that can be improved.

I have been a big and loyal supporter of this site for a while, and that doesn't change just because you say so, with all due respect. You can TRY to make it look otherwise..... that is your perogative.

Again, i don't play at clubword, i don't care about their bonuses, have nothing against clubworld, etc....

But the issue remains:

Clubworld used advertisements on their site to entice players to sign-up / play. A player saw this advertisement, and reasonably so, assumed they would receive the advertised bonus. They were of course, denied since the particular advertisement was not running at that moment. The rep clearly states that you must continue to another link to find the "current" promotions. Multiple statements regarding the availability of promotions to players have been shown to be inaccurate and false since not all players are eligible for the same promos even though the rep stated otherwise. There is no clarity on why certain players don't get promotions (yes, it is the casino's right to refuse promotions), but doing this contradicts the casinos position that all players receive promotions and that they are not restricted or by invitation only, as stated by the rep.

In other words, for example.... can a casino put up a banner that says "free coffemaker if you sign up!!!" but it is only available on the 3rd day of every other month and you have to go to another link to learn that?

Or can a casino say things like "you never need to make a deposit without a bonus" but then not make bonuses available?

Even more drastic, can a casino advertise a great bonus with a link "click for availability!" .... the link goes to another bonus and the advertised one is never available... is that honest and acceptable?

Where is the line between acceptable and not acceptable, especially for an accredited casino.

I was under the impression that because club world was accredited, this would be a simple issue to resolve. I honestly had no idea that it would get this blown out of proportion. All I see is one statement by the rep not even truly addresing the issue and then the moderators jumping all over the membership in defense of club world, again, without really addressing the issue.

[clubworld]

Hi All,

OK, this thread has raised a few issues – I hope I can address them all:

Special Promotions Page

We have a range of special promotions and events that we run from time to time in the casino. We provide details of these events on the special promotions page of our website so that our players know what they can expect and what they should be looking out for in their emails and on the promotions schedule.

I realise that although the wording that explains this was at the top of the page it was quite small and not terribly clear so I have updated the special promotions page to improve this.

These events are open to everyone except the very small minority of players who have been restricted from claiming any of the promotions in our casinos, which leads me onto...

Bonus Statuses

We do restrict the bonuses available to certain players to the Continual Bonuses only. The algorithm we use to identify accounts that may require restricting looks at a wide range of factors and only a tiny proportion of our players are affected.

As you will have guessed VWM has had his account restricted in this way and is not terribly happy about it. While I cannot post details from his account in a public forum I can let you know that this is not the result of a single big win.

I have noticed that a lot of the more vigorous posts in this thread are coming from players who have been restricted from claiming promotions. I realise that this has cut off a source of income and therefore there will be some bitterness involved, but we play this as fairly as we can – paying the balance in full before restricting access to further promotions.

If any of you feel that you have been restricted from claiming bonuses in error just PM me your username and I will review the situation.

Feedback

I do welcome feedback from the player community, especially the CasinoMeister regulars. This does need to be constructive however. Just calling me a liar and pointing out how rubbish you think we are does not help anyone.

You guys have been around this industry for a long time and I value your opinions so it is a shame when the opportunity to make improvements is lost amongst fruitless arguing.

Regards
Tom

[tat00]

thank you club world thanks for the info-
i play lots on your casino and i like it but promos should be a little better understanding in my opinion ty

[maxd]

I respect your opinion on the membership here. I don't agree with it, but it is certainly your perogative as to how you view us. Over time, many members will disagree with you ....

Again, disagree with what, exactly? You think the membership wants to see other members "given a pass'' (to use your terms) simply because they are senior? That's like saying "I have seniority here so I get to do what I like". Not a good way to run things IMHO and certainly not the way I see things being run here.

Seniority is a tricky thing. In some cases senior members are folks who've contributed copiously to the site, have been around through thick and thin, and have comported themselves in such a manner as to have earned wide-spread and well-founded respect. In other cases a senior member may simply be someone with a lot of posts. Seniority is something but it certainly isn't everything. Like most other things it's gotta be taken with a pinch of salt.

All I see is one statement by the rep not even truly addresing the issue and then the moderators jumping all over the membership in defense of club world, again, without really addressing the issue.

And therein lies our problem. What "jumping all over the membership"? I see exactly three posts from a moderator (me) and three posts from site owner (CM).

My posts are: one to help out at the beginning of the thread and two addressed specifically to you for the reasons clearly spelled out above. That constitutes "jumping all over the membership"? I think not. Not unless you are calling yourself "the membership".

Furthermore nowhere in those posts was anything said "in defense" of CW. In fact I was the first one in this thread to say that it looked like a screw-up and furthermore I posted the (possibly) offending page section so everyone could see what was at issue. The OP even thanked me for doing so.

Were my posts, in general, directed at the CW issue? No because, for the nth time, they were specifically directed at you and your attempts, as I saw it, to slag and discredit the site. I see that as an issue well worth addressing and did so believing the CW issue would get sorted in due course.

So, again, your claims and insinuations seem to me to be quite unfounded: there has been no "jumping all over the membership" nor any "defense of CW". This is the third or fourth time we've been through this so at this point I believe it's safe to say that the person doing the distortion of truths and invention of scandal here is you, repeatedly, which seems rather at odds with your self-proclaimed loyalty to and admiration of the site.

For the last time: if you've got a problem, spell it out and back it up with specific, relevant references to material that supports your position. So far you've done none of that. Instead you've made one vague, hyperbolic, destructive and insulting post after another. Sounds pretty trollish to me.

CM's posts here pretty much came after the events you're presumably referring to so I'm assuming their not part of your criticism. If they are say so and I'm sure Bryan will speak for himself.

[hippo925]

So, again, your claims and insinuations seem to me to be quite unfounded: there has been no "jumping all over the membership" nor any "defense of CW". This is the third or fourth time we've been through this so at this point I believe it's safe to say that the person doing the distortion of truths and invention of scandal here is you, repeatedly, which seems rather at odds with your self-proclaimed loyalty to and admiration of the site.

For the last time: if you've got a problem, spell it out and back it up with specific, relevant references to material that supports your position. So far you've done none of that. Instead you've made one vague, hyperbolic, destructive and insulting post after another. Sounds pretty trollish to me.

Again, like i said.... if it is your perogative to try to paint a certain image of me, by all means...it is your choice. I'm not sure if you expect me to be baited into some irrational barrage, but i am confident that members of this forum will concentrate on the issues raised in this thread and will have a hard time swallowing what you are trying to do. I can also use a play on words to "create" an image of you.... for example (just an example, i actually don't believe this)... as an arrogant, biased, rude, forum moderator too self-absorbed with his own perceived power that he can't objectively see any side of an argument besides his own.... OF COURSE, i wouldn't say it directly like that. i would use a play of words that don't actually mean or say anything... much like what you have written above. But of course, that would not be a nice thing to do.... to ANYBODY.

To completely ignore all the posts in this thread by so many different people, and then make it seem like there is nothing going on and that i am just being "vague," is really disrespectful to everyone who participated in the thread. I am not the only one in this thread.

Certainly, Tom, from clubworld, has addressed some of the issues and has stated that he has taken steps to avoid future problems by changing / clarifying the promotional banners. I'm sure other members will be able to attest to that shortly. I don't know if the issue of promotional restrictions will be made clearer on the website. i'm sure, that too, will be addressed by someone who plays there. As an accredited casino, i would expect clubworld to do their best to be clear and to avoid misleading / confusing promotions and/or statements.

I don't know what the underlying issues are that caused this thread to become so strange. What i do know is that more and more, there is less reason to post, especially if it's something that may be controversial or involves an accredited casino.

The number of regulars posting in this thread now is non-existent.....not a suprise, but what does that say? Free and open discussion? Uggggh...

[WagerWitch]

SHUSH you two...

[chuchu59]

Hi All,

OK, this thread has raised a few issues – I hope I can address them all:

Special Promotions Page

We have a range of special promotions and events that we run from time to time in the casino. We provide details of these events on the special promotions page of our website so that our players know what they can expect and what they should be looking out for in their emails and on the promotions schedule.

I realise that although the wording that explains this was at the top of the page it was quite small and not terribly clear so I have updated the special promotions page to improve this.

These events are open to everyone except the very small minority of players who have been restricted from claiming any of the promotions in our casinos, which leads me onto...

Bonus Statuses

We do restrict the bonuses available to certain players to the Continual Bonuses only. The algorithm we use to identify accounts that may require restricting looks at a wide range of factors and only a tiny proportion of our players are affected.

As you will have guessed VWM has had his account restricted in this way and is not terribly happy about it. While I cannot post details from his account in a public forum I can let you know that this is not the result of a single big win.

I have noticed that a lot of the more vigorous posts in this thread are coming from players who have been restricted from claiming promotions. I realise that this has cut off a source of income and therefore there will be some bitterness involved, but we play this as fairly as we can – paying the balance in full before restricting access to further promotions.

If any of you feel that you have been restricted from claiming bonuses in error just PM me your username and I will review the situation.

Feedback

I do welcome feedback from the player community, especially the CasinoMeister regulars. This does need to be constructive however. Just calling me a liar and pointing out how rubbish you think we are does not help anyone.

You guys have been around this industry for a long time and I value your opinions so it is a shame when the opportunity to make improvements is lost amongst fruitless arguing.

Regards
Tom

Tom,

I am sure you like to listen to constructive criticisms but I really do not understand why you singling out a player (VWM) to prove your case. I was impressed by the service of CWC when I first played there but wasnt really that happy when I visited the site , liked a promo only to learn that it wasnt available to me. No problem but several weeks later I received an offer in an email from Lauren with no code mentioned. Went to live chat and asked for it. They had no clue which is still understandable but after not receiving any sort of reply when support promised to check into it I was quite pissed off.

I am concerned about the apparent hostility among members and mods. From what I read, both sides have sound arguments. However, when they boil down to personal attacks about membership seniority and the like it is not going to do a great service to the forum which has built up a great reputation over the years thanks to the concerted efforts of the many participants here including the i-gaming forum reps. If I were a lurker I would be very annoyed and ask myself 'What kind of forum is this. A slang fest or what?'. Maybe it's high time to let this thread die down though CWC should really take note of what many players have said.

[hippo925]

SHUSH you two...

Fine..... but there's no chance in heck I'm gonna stand in the corner unless max goes too!!

[hippo925]

Tom,

I am sure you like to listen to constructive criticisms but I really do not understand why you singling out a player (VWM) to prove your case. I was impressed by the service of CWC when I first played there but wasnt really that happy when I visited the site , liked a promo only to learn that it wasnt available to me. No problem but several weeks later I received an offer in an email from Lauren with no code mentioned. Went to live chat and asked for it. They had no clue which is still understandable but after not receiving any sort of reply when support promised to check into it I was quite pissed off.

I am concerned about the apparent hostility among members and mods. From what I read, both sides have sound arguments. However, when they boil down to personal attacks about membership seniority and the like it is not going to do a great service to the forum which has built up a great reputation over the years thanks to the concerted efforts of the many participants here including the i-gaming forum reps. If I were a lurker I would be very annoyed and ask myself 'What kind of forum is this. A slang fest or what?'. Maybe it's high time to let this thread die down though CWC should really take note of what many players have said.

Agree wholeheartedly!

And apparently i did a poor job of expressing my point when i brought up the issue of what kind of seniority one needs to get a respectful response. I was trying to express that everyone should get the same respect regardless of posts, rep points, etc.... Apparently i wasn't very clear and max thought that i was saying i should have more respect or something. In fact, i was trying to say the opposite by asking a rhetorical question.

I especially agree with your last sentence. That should have been the whole point to this thread....

[maxd]

Free and open discussion? Uggggh...

Not when it comes to letting you slag off the site with gross over-generalizations and sniping innuendo, no. You're not talking about "free and open discussion", you're calling for "free and open season" on what CM does and how it's done. Not welcome and it won't be tolerated.

FWIW I had considered peeling the "tussle" posts off into a separate thread so regular readers wouldn't have to wade through the muck but it turns out the divergent stuff is too intertwined with the main subject for it to make any sense on it's own. If my posts with Hippo have degraded the value of the main discussion I do apologize. But, as I've said, I do not make apologies for the intent or purpose of those posts. Just a bad place at a bad time I guess.