Red Flush missing and predatory(?) T&C

[winbig]

I'm filing this under a bonus complaint, simply because it's regarding a bonus. I was going to sign up there before this happened, but have decided not to.

1: There are no terms and conditions for the 100% match bonus listed on http://www.redflush.com/promotions_terms.asp , nor http://www.redflush.com/promotions.asp (I thought only Roguish casinos did this?)

2: When I went to live chat, I asked for the link to both the details and terms for the promotion. I received neither. Rather than going on about the chat, you can read it for yourself, and be the judge.

3: Get ready for this: NEW PLAYERS = 7.5X MAX CASHOUT! With a sticky bonus!!! This is worse than RTG. And exactly what constitutes a loyal player? 2 deposits? 5 deposits? 10... ?

4: Needless to say, there is NO MENTION of ANY OF THE TERMS on their website that Gary told me about! These are quite HIDDEN (Again, Roguish?)

Chat InformationPlease wait for a site operator to respond.

Chat InformationYou are now chatting with 'Gary'

Gary: Welcome to Red Flush Casino. How may I assist you?

Brian: Hello, I was trying to find the terms for your 100% match bonus, but I can't locate them, nor any details about it on the promotions page

Brian: do you have a link I could use?

Gary: Please log on to www.redflush.com for all of the T's and Cs

Brian: I did that, and I'm on http://www.redflush.com/promotions.asp right now

Brian: there is no link for the 100% match bonus terms or details

Gary: Great, you'll notice that there is a term for "promotional money" the max you can cash in on free $ is $750 regardless on how much you win [Where?]

Brian: wow, so you're saying if I sign up, deposit $100 and take a bonus, I can only cash out $750, even if I hit a jackpot?

Brian: that's worse than real time gaming casinos

Brian: and what are the wagering requirements for this promotion?

Gary: Indeed, there is a way around that though, simply make a purchase with the casino and become a loyal player [What makes you a loyal player?]

Gary: Wagering is usually 30x the bonus but it depends on which games you play

Brian: sorry, but why would I even become a loyal player if I were to get burned on a max cashout rule....thanks for your help

[dambusted]

http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/...preciated.html

Wonder what the sticky is on the $100(No Deposit bonus ) is then?

All I can say is GoodLuck even if you do get to cashout. As you can see by my threads it was a bumpy road.
Another update--I still have had NO response regarding paying for services the Casino says they provided! I don't really think they give a rats *** about keeping long term players!

[dambusted]

Forgot...I believe Loyal Player= A player that keeps depositing and doesn't cash out...

[kmay87]

Forgot...I believe Loyal Player= A player that keeps depositing and doesn't cash out...

Probably, in casino terms, one who deposits without a bonus. Although I think with the above restrictions, I wouldn't want that bonus anyway!

[sdaddy]

Yep, I'm troubled by their T&Cs also. Found this:

12. Observations of playing patterns such as the playing for deliberate minimum risk, equal, zero margin or hedge betting may not be considered as playing in the appropriate spirit for the purposes of meeting bonus wagering requirements. Should the Casino deem that these practices have been utilized for the specific purpose of meeting wagering requirements, the casino reserves the right to withhold any cashins and/or confiscate all winnings.

Like with all similar "bonus abuse" rules, it's too vague. I'll just stick with MG casino groups that don't have such language.

[winbig]

Here's another predatory term:

If the casino deems that the autoplay feature has been used for the purpose of meeting bonus account wagering requirements, Red Flush reserves the right to void winnings.

So, if a player uses autoplay instead of sitting there clicking 'spin' every round, they're a bonus abuser?


Again, these terms are not linked, nor is any information about the 100% SUB listed on their "promotions" page. To get to the terms, you have to go to the bottom (very very very bottom, near the 'affiliates' link, etc) of a page and click on "Terms and conditons." Get real people, have your terms linked from EVERY page on the site in CLEAR view!


FWIW, it shows that the $750 cashout is the max for a ND BONUS, not the SUB. These support operators really need to get their shite together.

[LaHutti]

Here's another predatory term:





So, if a player uses autoplay instead of sitting there clicking 'spin' every round, they're a bonus abuser?


Again, these terms are not linked, nor is any information about the 100% SUB listed on their "promotions" page. To get to the terms, you have to go to the bottom (very very very bottom, near the 'affiliates' link, etc) of a page and click on "Terms and conditons." Get real people, have your terms linked from EVERY page on the site in CLEAR view!


FWIW, it shows that the $750 cashout is the max for a ND BONUS, not the SUB. These support operators really need to get their shite together.

lol...they do...and they need to have the autoplay buttons removed, if you're not allowed to use them. That has got to be the stupidest thing I've ever heard,!

[winbig]

Sorry, forgot a thought I had.....


What really irks me is that (Gary) the support operator couldn't just give me a link to the terms and conditions page and let me read it for myself. Instead, he gave me information on something totally different (ND Bonus rules vs. Match bonus rules.) How could I have made it more clear that I was talking about the Match bonus?

1st line:

Brian: Hello, I was trying to find the terms for your 100% match bonus, but I can't locate them, nor any details about it on the promotions page

By the way:

It seems that a CD mailer is where one gets the ND Bonus offer. The last paragraph on http://www.redflush.com/terms.asp leads me to believe that.

How in the world would you get their CD for a ND offer if you've never played there? Are they buying player lists from other casinos?

[vinylweatherman]

Sorry, forgot a thought I had.....


What really irks me is that (Gary) the support operator couldn't just give me a link to the terms and conditions page and let me read it for myself. Instead, he gave me information on something totally different (ND Bonus rules vs. Match bonus rules.) How could I have made it more clear that I was talking about the Match bonus?

1st line:




By the way:

It seems that a CD mailer is where one gets the ND Bonus offer. The last paragraph on http://www.redflush.com/terms.asp leads me to believe that.

How in the world would you get their CD for a ND offer if you've never played there? Are they buying player lists from other casinos?

Not directly, this would be done by buying names & addresses from a marketing company who has compiled targeted lists of people likely to fit certain profiles. They would themselves have received this information through various surveys, and statistics based on what these people have previously bought. These lists are more likely to be profiles, and not specific people, and may be generated from census data on age, salary, social category, and then worked to produce a list of those most likely to buy certain products and services. Anyone who has EVER expressed an interest in internet gambling is likely to be profiled on such lists. Naturally, there ARE unscrupulous casinos and casino employees that will DIRECTLY sell player lists to such marketing companies.

This seems to be yet another case of "poor training" of a CS operator, which has resulted in Red Flush being likened to the rogues before it becomes clear that the CS operator got mixed up between a DEPOSIT bonus, and a free chip. Many casinos, INCLUDING MG ONES, have cashout limits on these free chips, however these ONLY apply where a player NEVER deposits any of their own money. Ideally, one should claim the free chip, and then deposit for the match bonus, after which they should play "in the spirit of the offer" (eg, leave Blackjack & Roulette alone, and ideally just play slots).

While this should cause no trouble, I am now a little concerned given that another player has complained their DEPOSIT has been confiscated, as well as winnings, and without a bonus seeming to be involved. Quite possibly, this is yet another CS cock-up, and the deposit will be refunded, and only winnings held in dispute, which is more usual, although still puzzling where no bonus seems to be involved.

If Red Flush are suffering a fraud attack, they had better let Max know now, so that these complaints can be seen in context, and the "Dolphins" rescued from the "Tuna net" before Red Flush gets an adverse reputation.

[winbig]

If Red Flush are suffering a fraud attack, they had better let Max know now, so that these complaints can be seen in context, and the "Dolphins" rescued from the "Tuna net" before Red Flush gets an adverse reputation.

IMO, they're already getting this reputation, if not for the other problems they're having, but for having such predatory T&C's. Only rogues stick a "no autoplay" term in their rules; not to mention the others.