Breakaway Casino stealing my winnings

[Reynier]

I don't know if I should post this here or in the non-bonus issues but I guess this forum is most appropriate seeing the way Breakaway looks at the case.

Last week I came on a promotional page of Breakaway casino trough an Google search. I had a coupon which would give me a 500% bonus on top of my 200 deposit. The max cashout would be 400 and you had to wager 60.000 before you could make any cashout.. I played there casino and ended up cashing out 400 dollars.

The next day I received an email from Breakaway casino that I used a coupon that wasn't valid unless you subscribed trough a special affiliate site. I don't know how that could be because the coupon was accepted in the casino, so was my deposit and I followed all their rules and cashed out according to the T&C. How should I have known that the coupon wasn't valid..?!?

But well, oke, my 200 deposit was returned into my account and my winnings were deleted. Exactly as the email told me, "You're deposit will be returned to your account"... When I logged in a few days later indeed my 200 deposit had been returned into my account. I felt like gambling and took my 200 to the BJ table and ended up cashing out 1.000 dollars.

I was suprised to find again the same email as before that my winnings were denied because I used an invalid promotion.. WTF?? What promotion, there was no promotion anymore, I was just gambling my own money since the rest was allready deleted from my account..

I contacted live chat at first but they weren't very helpfull. Then last night I made a call and was put trough to a supervisor called Jamy. He told me that the casino has every right to delete my winnings "just because they can when the security department decides to".. He told me also that I was using an invalid promotion which I obviously didn't..

I asked Jamy how it is possible to delete peoples winnings when they gamble with there money.. He told me my case was totally different but I don't see why...

Here are 2 screenshots from my account history showing everything that happened.. I can post the emails I received as well when somebody wants me to..

Expired Image
Expired Image

 

[Mousey]

I suppose you've already contacted the rep here?
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/members/

If the scenario is as you say, I see no reason for your withdrawal to be disallowed. **heavy sigh** However, I will say that the sci-fi group tends to be quite rigid in these situations, so I'm not very optimistic about a change in attitude.

You are probably labeled a bonus abuser, even though they negated the bonus and winnings with that bonus. Do not play with what's left, if they don't relent, cash out and uninstall the casino and its sister.

Let us know how it goes.

 

[lojo]

That sucks, Reynier.

On https://www.casinomeister.com/casino-software/rtg/ they're listed as 'proceed with care' which means they have a rep here who may be able to help you with your problems
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/members/
He's been on in the last two weeks.

Good luck.

 

[tim5ny]

If you're going to use RTG software, then you may want to consider INETBET. You wont have these problems.
And when you see an RTG giving an insane bonus like 500%, then it's a good indication that they have no intentions of paying winners.

 

[gaydave]

By them not paying Reynier I see that they are totally crooks!

This is what these criminals did to me:

Back when the left the US market I had a balance of $400. I asked for a cashout and they said that they couldnt give me money via Neteller and that they couldnt send U.S. residents checks, so there was no way to get my money out. In the meantime, I couldn't even log into my account any longer.
At this time they SUPPOSEDLY (I dont have it in my deleted box and I never get rid of any email!!) Emailed me asking for docs and fax back form so they could pay me. This already doesnt make any sense since they said they couldnt pay me!!!!! So why would they ask for docs then and why would it even matter???.
A few months later I found out that they COULD give me my money back via Eco Card! I was happy and contacted them to tell them this. They said to send in the faxback form and I did so.... then I got my $100 deposit back with no explanation. I contacted the rep here, I emailed back and forth and got no satisfactory response except that they try to say that the Americans had a "grace Period" to get thier funds out! BUT THEY COULDNT PROCESS THEM TO US! So I thought I would PaB here and that would take care of it.
BUT NOOOOO. Some how I guess it is O.K. for them to keep my money? How does WHEN I ask for it matter? Its my stinking money! They have no right to implement a time limit for me to withdraw! Its MINE not thiers. Here is the worthless reply I got from my PaB which did nothing other than to embolden them to steal other player's money obviously. They need to be rogued or something:

(Notice it doesnt seem to matter to whomever that I couldnt have cashed out anyways and that when I COULD cashout and sent my forms that somehow mattered?)

I thought I had forwarded this to you in July. Sorry about that:

After making some deep research, I found out exactly what happened here:

1) February 2007: US players were banned. Your account was obviously locked then.
2) 3/2/2007 security form requested 1st time so you could withdrawal your balance. No response from you.
3) 3/13/2007 security form requested 2nd time so you could withdrawal your balance. No response from you.
4) 3/22/2007 Balance removed. No more American players activity enabled in the casino. Accounts were zeroed out in order to adjust casino accounting books.
5) 5/2/2007 You claimed your balance 2 months after US players money was properly refunded and casino stopped receiving US customers.
6) 5/2/2007 Breakaway Management decided, as an exception, to return your deposit.
7) 5/31/2007 Documentation received towards deposit refund.
8) 6/6/2007 Deposit refunded to ecocard account.

It's pretty much in their hands. At least you have your deposit back.

Sincerely,

Bryan

So the deal with this casino group is that they will love to have you play... but they will only pay you your deposit back if you win.
They are stinking crooks obviously.

 

[chuchu59]

By them not paying Reynier I see that they are totally crooks!

This is what these criminals did to me:

Back when the left the US market I had a balance of $400. I asked for a cashout and they said that they couldnt give me money via Neteller and that they couldnt send U.S. residents checks, so there was no way to get my money out. In the meantime, I couldn't even log into my account any longer.
At this time they SUPPOSEDLY (I dont have it in my deleted box and I never get rid of any email!!) Emailed me asking for docs and fax back form so they could pay me. This already doesnt make any sense since they said they couldnt pay me!!!!! So why would they ask for docs then and why would it even matter???.
A few months later I found out that they COULD give me my money back via Eco Card! I was happy and contacted them to tell them this. They said to send in the faxback form and I did so.... then I got my $100 deposit back with no explanation. I contacted the rep here, I emailed back and forth and got no satisfactory response except that they try to say that the Americans had a "grace Period" to get thier funds out! BUT THEY COULDNT PROCESS THEM TO US! So I thought I would PaB here and that would take care of it.
BUT NOOOOO. Some how I guess it is O.K. for them to keep my money? How does WHEN I ask for it matter? Its my stinking money! They have no right to implement a time limit for me to withdraw! Its MINE not thiers. Here is the worthless reply I got from my PaB which did nothing other than to embolden them to steal other player's money obviously. They need to be rogued or something:

(Notice it doesnt seem to matter to whomever that I couldnt have cashed out anyways and that when I COULD cashout and sent my forms that somehow mattered?)



So the deal with this casino group is that they will love to have you play... but they will only pay you your deposit back if you win.
They are stinking crooks obviously.

While Reynier seems to have a case, the same cannot be said for you. Although there was no way for the casino to pay you in February, they asked for your docs on 3 separate occasions in March this year. You simply assumed that they were giving you a runaround and chose to ignore them despite the possibility that they may have found a way to pay you. You didnt bother to even ask. As the accounts were then zeroed out as accounting measures, there does not seem any way in which they could reinstate your balance.

The casino also has to be faulted (unless contrary evidence is shown) for failing to notify the customer that the pending balance in the accounts can be withdrawn within a 'grace period' especially for USA customers. The fact that they chose to ask for fax docs in a routine way arouses suspicion that they did not really hope that the docs could be returned timely and that the extra funds could be retained legitimately.

 

[The Dude]

Here is the worthless reply I got from my PaB which did nothing other than to embolden them to steal other player's money obviously. They need to be rogued or something...

You got your deposit back - wtf? You are not out a cent of your own pocket.

Worthless reply? How much did you pay me to take the time out to chase these guys down to find out what happened? Zilch - nada.

I could have been playing ball with my kids instead of dealing with thankless players like you. See what happens if you PAB again.

 

[chuchu59]

Have some beer Bryan. With these ungrateful wretches, you will be lambasted even if you got $399 back for him. He didnt admit he was in any way wrong despite ignoring three separate reminders from the casino to fax his documents nor did he wake up to the possibility that there could be an avenue for payment. When he himself realised that Ecocard was a payment option, he started to rant. So what if you helped him get back his $100 deposit. There's the gratitude for you.

 

[poser]

@ gaydave: though I can understand totally that you are angry of not getting your winnings, I think you berate the wrong one here:

First, complain to the US administration..
Second, complain to yourself for ignoring 2 vital emails...
Third, complain to god, for beeing an american (gambler theese days)...

But be thankful to someone who invests time to get the best result for you he's able to get...

Nevertheless, the case of the starter of the thread is HEAVY I think (if all has gone the way he told - I see an 800 $ gone to Neteller at last... ?? - for me it looks, as if they only devided it into 200 + 800 - or substracted 200 ?)

 

[gaydave]

You got your deposit back - wtf? You are not out a cent of your own pocket.

Worthless reply? How much did you pay me to take the time out to chase these guys down to find out what happened? Zilch - nada.

I could have been playing ball with my kids instead of dealing with thankless players like you. See what happens if you PAB again.

Yes. I did get my deposit back BEFORE I EVER PaB. I had already recieved my deposit back before I contacted you about it.
Thank you for whatever time you put into it.
I can tell you that there isnt much fact there in your reply to me. You seem to have took the casinos word and called it a day with no further investigation or questions.
I am telling you that they didnt contact me and ask for fax back. LOL, why would they?
See, the misconception from the posters here is that it was me that figured that I couldnt get paid and gave up on it. The truth is that I contacted them immediately upon being locked out of my account and asked them to send me my money. They never contacted me to tell me I had money there, or explain how to get it out. NO, they simply locked my american account and never said a word about it. I had to contact them.
THEN, They said that they had no way to pay me and that I was out of luck for the time being. Thats it! They simply told me that they could not process any transaction to pay me! They never contacted me to tell me about eco card, I found it out myself and contacted them. THATS when they first mentioned a "grace period". This supposed "grace period" would have already elapsed well before I found out about eco card and contacted them. So what a great plan they have. "you have 30 days to get your money out but we cant pay you anyways" LOL! This is silly.

You know, You say "you are not out a cent from your own pocket". To me this is crazy. Of course I am. ALL OF THAT MONEY IN THE ACCOUNT IS MINE and the casino has NO RIGHT to decide if I get it or not. That is the exact attitude that gives these casinos the courage to confiscate winnings all the time. Why would anyone condone this as appropriate behaviour? If I go to a landbased casino and win is it ok for them to keep my money? I think not! When did stealing players money become acceptable on this forum? How is this not taking money from me? It IS mine - I won it fair and square! If I lost $400 would it be ok for me to take it back? No, this is insanity.
I had $400 in that account. I asked for it right away - but that shouldn't be a point anyways. Its my dang money. If I wanted to wait, what business do they have to tell me that I cant. It certainly wasnt in their T&C! This "grace period" is a bunch of BS. Any legit company would not do this. It is MY money. If they wanted to balance their books then they should remit all outstanding balances. How does adding my $400 balance anything? They now have a surplus which is the money that they stole from me.

The bottom line is that I had $400 in that account. I want it back. I have sent the fax back forms and all other docs. Now what right would they have to steal this money?

 

[gaydave]

Have some beer Bryan. With these ungrateful wretches, you will be lambasted even if you got $399 back for him. He didnt admit he was in any way wrong despite ignoring three separate reminders from the casino to fax his documents nor did he wake up to the possibility that there could be an avenue for payment. When he himself realised that Ecocard was a payment option, he started to rant. So what if you helped him get back his $100 deposit. There's the gratitude for you.

Chuchu59,

I am not ungrateful nor am I a wretch. Bryan didn't help me get back my $100 deposit.
I am glad that bryan looked into it but I don't think he looked too hard. It appears he simply took the casinos word and ended it. That is just not how it should be. That reply is the same reply that they gave me and I already had my deposit back.
I did not admit to doing anything wrong because I certainly didn't. I didn't ignore them and even if I had then why would that be wrong if its not against their T&C?
I only "ranted" when they would not pay me. Doesnt it seem as though a legit company would either find a way to pay you right away or at the very least inform you when they did have a way? I was always looking for a way to get paid from them and when I finally realized that eco card was the way to go I immediately asked them for my money. I did NOT close my mind to them ever being able to pay me. They WISH I would have but I tried the whole time and, in fact, am still trying to get MY money. Its simply MINE. How could anyone side with the casino on this issue? It seems incredible to me: I have a $400 balance. I break no T&C. I am denied cashout because the "cant". When I finally find that they "can" I ask for it again. Then they come up with a 'grace period". Doesnt that just reek of thievery?

 

[MarcyW]

@ gaydave: though I can understand totally that you are angry of not getting your winnings, I think you berate the wrong one here:

First, complain to the US administration..
Second, complain to yourself for ignoring 2 vital emails...
Third, complain to god, for beeing an american (gambler theese days)...

But be thankful to someone who invests time to get the best result for you he's able to get...

Nevertheless, the case of the starter of the thread is HEAVY I think (if all has gone the way he told - I see an 800 $ gone to Neteller at last... ?? - for me it looks, as if they only devided it into 200 + 800 - or substracted 200 ?)

Complain to the US administration? Do you really think that is smart? Not that they would probably care but even if they did why would you want to bring more negative attention to this industry?

And to Brian, I can understand that it's frustrating that a player doesn't appreciate your help but your post about how much they paid you, etc. really rubbed me the wrong way. You put yourself in the position to be an advocate in this industry. You make large sums of money from the affiliate income on your site. Seems to me that you are getting paid quite well.

 

[chuchu59]

Chuchu59,

I am not ungrateful nor am I a wretch. Bryan didn't help me get back my $100 deposit.
I am glad that bryan looked into it but I don't think he looked too hard. It appears he simply took the casinos word and ended it. That is just not how it should be. That reply is the same reply that they gave me and I already had my deposit back.
I did not admit to doing anything wrong because I certainly didn't. I didn't ignore them and even if I had then why would that be wrong if its not against their T&C?
I only "ranted" when they would not pay me. Doesnt it seem as though a legit company would either find a way to pay you right away or at the very least inform you when they did have a way? I was always looking for a way to get paid from them and when I finally realized that eco card was the way to go I immediately asked them for my money. I did NOT close my mind to them ever being able to pay me. They WISH I would have but I tried the whole time and, in fact, am still trying to get MY money. Its simply MINE. How could anyone side with the casino on this issue? It seems incredible to me: I have a $400 balance. I break no T&C. I am denied cashout because the "cant". When I finally find that they "can" I ask for it again. Then they come up with a 'grace period". Doesnt that just reek of thievery?

OK, I take back what I said about you being an unxxxx wrxxxxxx but a couple of lessons in communications is surely in order. Worthless reply? Emboldening rogues to steal money? I cannot understand why you are venting your frustrations on a person who tries to help you. If Bryan didnt get the whole picture, tell him instead of irating him thru such a post flared by such bad tempers. Actually, how could he have known that you hadnt received the e-mails in question unless you told him explicitly. Bryan sent you an e-mail and you should simply have replied to it with your version of events.

You should note that you didnt dispute the facts in Bryan's e-mail when you first posted in this thread. If we want assistance, we must make sure others understand the facts clearly. Being more precise is definitely a start.

 

[The Dude]

And to Brian, I can understand that it's frustrating that a player doesn't appreciate your help but your post about how much they paid you, etc. really rubbed me the wrong way. You put yourself in the position to be an advocate in this industry. You make large sums of money from the affiliate income on your site. Seems to me that you are getting paid quite well.

Then you should have reread gaydave's comments. I am not obligated in any which way shape or form to contact casinos not listed on the site. I do this because I am willing to help, and it's a free service. Many people who spend time and effort to do the same sort of thing usually take a percentage of any funds received. I don't ask for diddly-squat.

And actually, I'm not siding with anyone - the casino stated that the player didn't respond to emails sent during the period that they allotted him, and the player says he never received the emails. It's one person's word against another. What am I supposed to do, invest x amount of hours to get to the bottom of this dark mystery??

The guy got his deposit back - I never claimed that this was because of what I did. I just mentioned this because he is not out of pocket. If they confiscated his deposit, that would have been a whole 'nother story.

 

[chuchu59]

In all honesty Bryan, I think your reply stating that you had made some deep research did not sit in well with Dave. Neither would I if both sides had their own side of the story. By saying that you had delved deeply into the issue to come to a conclusion means that you had decided that the casino's version of events was correct. I realise that much effort may have to be put in to reveal the truth but it did seem that this had already been done.

 

[MarcyW]

Then you should have reread gaydave's comments. I am not obligated in any which way shape or form to contact casinos not listed on the site. I do this because I am willing to help, and it's a free service. Many people who spend time and effort to do the same sort of thing usually take a percentage of any funds received. I don't ask for diddly-squat.

And actually, I'm not siding with anyone - the casino stated that the player didn't respond to emails sent during the period that they allotted him, and the player says he never received the emails. It's one person's word against another. What am I supposed to do, invest x amount of hours to get to the bottom of this dark mystery??

The guy got his deposit back - I never claimed that this was because of what I did. I just mentioned this because he is not out of pocket. If they confiscated his deposit, that would have been a whole 'nother story.

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with gaydave (what a name!) I'm just saying that you have this site here which bills itself as a "casino watchdog and player advocate". Therefore I assume you put in time as an advocate. You say you are not obligated yet if you want your site to be a watchdog and a player advocate then you actually are obligated. You say you don't take a percentage of funds, etc. I agree you should be compensated however your site has affiliate links for accredited casinos and I am sure you get money for those links. Perhaps I'm wrong and the affiliate code is in no way associated with you. Unless I am wrong then you are likely one of the largest and most successful affiliates and this is all because you have a forum of impeccable credibility and the fact that you are the industry watchdog. One hand washes another.

As for the out of pocket comment, once a player wins money isn't it theirs? It doesn't seem right to me to say that someone isn't out of pocket since they got their deposit back. Soon casinos will void winners and just give the deposit money back. Of course they will keep the losing players money and be very profitable.

 

[MarcyW]

In all honesty Bryan, I think your reply stating that you had made some deep research did not sit in well with Dave. Neither would I if both sides had their own side of the story. By saying that you had delved deeply into the issue to come to a conclusion means that you had decided that the casino's version of events was correct. I realise that much effort may have to be put in to reveal the truth but it did seem that this had already been done.

I just wanted to say that gaydave very well could be in the wrong here. I don't know and I don't want anyone to think I'm taking his side. I just didn't like the way Bryan's comments made me feel. I like this site and his comments rubbed me in the wrong way.

 

[Reynier]

You got your deposit back - wtf? You are not out a cent of your own pocket.

Worthless reply? How much did you pay me to take the time out to chase these guys down to find out what happened? Zilch - nada.

I could have been playing ball with my kids instead of dealing with thankless players like you. See what happens if you PAB again.

Any ideas about my case??

 

[chuchu59]

I just wanted to say that gaydave very well could be in the wrong here. I don't know and I don't want anyone to think I'm taking his side. I just didn't like the way Bryan's comments made me feel. I like this site and his comments rubbed me in the wrong way.

The crux of the problem does depend on whether the casino had actually told Dave to send his documents by fax on the 3 occasions as stated. Dave actually gave an earlier impression that he ignored the e-mails which did not bode well for him. Now he is disputing the casino's version of events and states that he wasnt asked for the docs. to start this off the casino should produce a copy of the e-mail sent, possibly the one sent to other players as well to show that they did it in an unbiaised fashion. If they did, why would they purposefully leave out Dave. This bit of detective work may take some time yet but if we are to discover the truth, this may have to be done.

 

[gaydave]

OK, I take back what I said about you being an unxxxx wrxxxxxx but a couple of lessons in communications is surely in order. Worthless reply? Emboldening rogues to steal money? I cannot understand why you are venting your frustrations on a person who tries to help you. If Bryan didnt get the whole picture, tell him instead of irating him thru such a post flared by such bad tempers. Actually, how could he have known that you hadnt received the e-mails in question unless you told him explicitly. Bryan sent you an e-mail and you should simply have replied to it with your version of events.

You should note that you didnt dispute the facts in Bryan's e-mail when you first posted in this thread. If we want assistance, we must make sure others understand the facts clearly. Being more precise is definitely a start.

Yes, your probably correct about me not being clear enough. sorry for that. As for the assumption that I did not respond to bryan with my version that is not correct. Not only did I give him a run down via the PaB but I sent this Email in reply to his response.
I had to ask for a response multiple times but thats not a big deal because everyone over looks things or forgets to reply some times.

Thanks for looking into this for me.

As you have probably guessed this is a crock of pucky. They never sent me these emails until I contacted them about eco card being a solution. The first and only responses were "we have no way of paying US players". Then when I found out that they had eco card I contacted them again. They reluctantly admitted that they could pay me, then they pulled this total BS move of saying I didn't have my docs in a timely manner?
In all honesty, what should that matter??? It is MY money, not theirs and it is just plain thievery. There is no legitimate reason to keep my winnings other than they feel like stealing from me. It would not create any difficutly paying out my money for them - they simply wanted to keep it.
I really hope you don't mind me posting all of this as a reminder to other players to stay away from these crooks. The online biz has become very slimy and it is disheartening that nothing can be done by anybody to make these casino operators act in an honest and responsible fashion.

As you can see I did exactly what you said - we are thinking alike here.

I would also like to add something that I am not agreeing with. I think a point should be made that even if they had asked me for documents so that I could cash out (they DIDNT!) and I waited to send them it should not make a difference if I can get my money out. I think the main point of this whole thing is that it is MY money and now I am telling them that I want it. It is NEVER theirs and they have no right whatsoever to try to steal it based on some wierd imaginary rule that they want to implement.

I think Reynier needs to be paid also. The casino is showing horribly rogue behaviour if you just look at it with common sense I think.

 

[gaydave]

BTW, I would thank MarcyW and chuchu and Reynier but I dont have the ability to do so it seems. Just wanted you to know I appreciate your posts and comments.

 

[SciFiGroup]

I don't know if I should post this here or in the non-bonus issues but I guess this forum is most appropriate seeing the way Breakaway looks at the case.

Last week I came on a promotional page of Breakaway casino trough an Google search. I had a coupon which would give me a 500% bonus on top of my 200 deposit. The max cashout would be 400 and you had to wager 60.000 before you could make any cashout.. I played there casino and ended up cashing out 400 dollars.

The next day I received an email from Breakaway casino that I used a coupon that wasn't valid unless you subscribed trough a special affiliate site. I don't know how that could be because the coupon was accepted in the casino, so was my deposit and I followed all their rules and cashed out according to the T&C. How should I have known that the coupon wasn't valid..?!?

But well, oke, my 200 deposit was returned into my account and my winnings were deleted. Exactly as the email told me, "You're deposit will be returned to your account"... When I logged in a few days later indeed my 200 deposit had been returned into my account. I felt like gambling and took my 200 to the BJ table and ended up cashing out 1.000 dollars.

I was suprised to find again the same email as before that my winnings were denied because I used an invalid promotion.. WTF?? What promotion, there was no promotion anymore, I was just gambling my own money since the rest was allready deleted from my account..

Id like to start by explaining that this 500% bonus is a limited time only promotion that has not been launched yet and therefore no promotional information has been posted anywhere. Its a special promotion for specific players that come to our casino through specific affiliates. It is not an insane bonus, just a one time opportunity.

The terms and conditions are clearly stated. A few months ago, when we launched a similar promotion for one week, many players happily received their winnings. We are a reputable casino and we would never risk our name by creating promotions and offering bonuses if we dont intend to pay well earned winnings.

Nevertheless, in this case Ruben (or Reynier), if you review the terms and conditions of this promotion you will see that it clearly states: This promotion is only valid when download is done by clicking on a banner of an affiliate web site. This is one of the few lines of the Terms and Conditions, so it is in no way hidden in the small print

In the email we sent you on October 1st, the one you refer to as the next day, our Security department said:

We will return your deposit to your NETeller account, please send the following documents in order to make the transfer

The email did not say your deposit will be returned to your account, it says to your NETeller account and in order to do that, we needed your documents. You chose not to send your documents and instead you decided to play.

Usually, we would have been happy to approve and process your withdrawal for $1,000 since, as you mentioned, you were playing with your own money.

However, while waiting for your documents, a routine background check was done and based on your history in other casinos, our Management decided to close your account.

This was explained to you in our second email. If you review our casino policies, it says: The casino reserves the right to reclaim bonuses and / or close accounts in situations of apparent abuse or fraud. Bonus hunting/abusing behavior is defined by the management on a case-by-case basis Outdated URL (Invalid)

As soon as we receive your documents, well be pleased to return your deposit to you as we initially offered.

Thank you

 

[MarcyW]

Id like to start by explaining that this 500% bonus is a limited time only promotion that has not been launched yet and therefore no promotional information has been posted anywhere. Its a special promotion for specific players that come to our casino through specific affiliates. It is not an insane bonus, just a one time opportunity.

The terms and conditions are clearly stated. A few months ago, when we launched a similar promotion for one week, many players happily received their winnings. We are a reputable casino and we would never risk our name by creating promotions and offering bonuses if we dont intend to pay well earned winnings.

Nevertheless, in this case Ruben (or Reynier), if you review the terms and conditions of this promotion you will see that it clearly states: This promotion is only valid when download is done by clicking on a banner of an affiliate web site. This is one of the few lines of the Terms and Conditions, so it is in no way hidden in the small print

In the email we sent you on October 1st, the one you refer to as the next day, our Security department said:

We will return your deposit to your NETeller account, please send the following documents in order to make the transfer

The email did not say your deposit will be returned to your account, it says to your NETeller account and in order to do that, we needed your documents. You chose not to send your documents and instead you decided to play.

Usually, we would have been happy to approve and process your withdrawal for $1,000 since, as you mentioned, you were playing with your own money.

However, while waiting for your documents, a routine background check was done and based on your history in other casinos, our Management decided to close your account.

This was explained to you in our second email. If you review our casino policies, it says: The casino reserves the right to reclaim bonuses and / or close accounts in situations of apparent abuse or fraud. Bonus hunting/abusing behavior is defined by the management on a case-by-case basis Outdated URL (Invalid)

As soon as we receive your documents, well be pleased to return your deposit to you as we initially offered.

Thank you

I'm confused. Did he deposit with Neteller? Then why did you need documents to send his money back to the Neteller that deposited it? When casinos start asking for this kind of stuff it seems to me like they are stalling or trying to not pay. Did you ask for documents when you accepted money from his Neteller?

 

[chuchu59]

Id like to start by explaining that this 500% bonus is a limited time only promotion that has not been launched yet and therefore no promotional information has been posted anywhere. Its a special promotion for specific players that come to our casino through specific affiliates. It is not an insane bonus, just a one time opportunity.

The terms and conditions are clearly stated. A few months ago, when we launched a similar promotion for one week, many players happily received their winnings. We are a reputable casino and we would never risk our name by creating promotions and offering bonuses if we dont intend to pay well earned winnings.

Nevertheless, in this case Ruben (or Reynier), if you review the terms and conditions of this promotion you will see that it clearly states: This promotion is only valid when download is done by clicking on a banner of an affiliate web site. This is one of the few lines of the Terms and Conditions, so it is in no way hidden in the small print

In the email we sent you on October 1st, the one you refer to as the next day, our Security department said:

We will return your deposit to your NETeller account, please send the following documents in order to make the transfer

The email did not say your deposit will be returned to your account, it says to your NETeller account and in order to do that, we needed your documents. You chose not to send your documents and instead you decided to play.

Usually, we would have been happy to approve and process your withdrawal for $1,000 since, as you mentioned, you were playing with your own money.

However, while waiting for your documents, a routine background check was done and based on your history in other casinos, our Management decided to close your account.

This was explained to you in our second email. If you review our casino policies, it says: The casino reserves the right to reclaim bonuses and / or close accounts in situations of apparent abuse or fraud. Bonus hunting/abusing behavior is defined by the management on a case-by-case basis Outdated URL (Invalid)

As soon as we receive your documents, well be pleased to return your deposit to you as we initially offered.

Thank you

I am confused as well. Whether this player intended to be a bonus whore/abuser does not matter in this case because his bonus was already rescinded. All this talk of we would have paid the $1k normally is total BS. If you dont want his business tell him when you had the chance but you cant just void his winnings after play especially since he didnt play with a bonus. This talk of the casino reserves the right to blah blah blah is nonsense. You could have done practically anything you wanted without this unreasonable clause anyway.

In case you wanted to close the account why was the player still able to play. You had several days to communicate this to the player. Oh yes, it must have been coincidence and you only decided on that course of action right after he won. Frankly, I doubt whether bonus abusers or fraudsters would be willing to risk their own funds like Reynier did. He would otherwise have been an exception to those 2 categories of people.

 

[lojo]

I'll just make blanket statement... play with a bonus and (fill in the blank)

 

[Keyser]

Tortured reasoning of the casino

Id like to start by explaining that this 500% bonus is a limited time only promotion that has not been launched yet and therefore no promotional information has been posted anywhere. Its a special promotion for specific players that come to our casino through specific affiliates. It is not an insane bonus, just a one time opportunity.

The terms and conditions are clearly stated. A few months ago, when we launched a similar promotion for one week, many players happily received their winnings. We are a reputable casino and we would never risk our name by creating promotions and offering bonuses if we dont intend to pay well earned winnings.

Nevertheless, in this case Ruben (or Reynier), if you review the terms and conditions of this promotion you will see that it clearly states: This promotion is only valid when download is done by clicking on a banner of an affiliate web site. This is one of the few lines of the Terms and Conditions, so it is in no way hidden in the small print

In the email we sent you on October 1st, the one you refer to as the next day, our Security department said:

We will return your deposit to your NETeller account, please send the following documents in order to make the transfer

The email did not say your deposit will be returned to your account, it says to your NETeller account and in order to do that, we needed your documents. You chose not to send your documents and instead you decided to play.

Usually, we would have been happy to approve and process your withdrawal for $1,000 since, as you mentioned, you were playing with your own money.

However, while waiting for your documents, a routine background check was done and based on your history in other casinos, our Management decided to close your account.

This was explained to you in our second email. If you review our casino policies, it says: The casino reserves the right to reclaim bonuses and / or close accounts in situations of apparent abuse or fraud. Bonus hunting/abusing behavior is defined by the management on a case-by-case basis Outdated URL (Invalid)

As soon as we receive your documents, well be pleased to return your deposit to you as we initially offered.

Thank you

1) If you were merely returning his initial deposit of $200 before he decided to play with it the second time, why do you need documents to verify his netteller account. He deposited that way, you are essentially rejecting his deposit, so there is no need for verification.

2) If you did not want to allow him to play with the $200, why did you not lock his account out so he couldnt play? Why did you not tell him that his play was no longer wanted even without bonuses? These were extremely easy steps to take if that was your true intention.

3) Why does the fact that you did not like his play in the past allow you to confiscate his winnings after the fact? Are you trying to recoup losses that you feel that you suffered unfairly because of his previous play? Brick and mortar casinos, when they throw out card counters, do not confiscate their chips after the fact. However, that is not even analogous because in this case he was playing with NO bonus so could NOT possibly have played in a manner which would warrant action of any kind on your part.

4) You quoted your own term #19, which is as follows: "19. The casino reserves the right to reclaim bonuses and / or close accounts in situations of apparent abuse or fraud. Bonus hunting/abusing behavior is defined by the management on a case-by-case basis. The maximum cash out of a deposit bonus is 8 times the amount of the deposit unless specifically stated otherwise." In this case, you neither closed his account or reclaimed his bonus (that had been done previously). Instead you confiscated his winnings. Closing an account means you return the balance and not allow the person to play again. It does NOT mean that you seize his winnings.

5) Even more explicitly, your casino has explicit terms and conditions which deliniate when you can seize someone's winnings, which is term #7: "7. Breakaway CASINO reserves the right to cancel your membership at any time without notice. Any balance in your account will be immediately return to you via one of our withdrawal methods. In addition, Breakaway CASINO reserves the right, in its total discretion, to void any winnings and withhold any balance in Breakaway Casino account under any of the following circumstances.

a. If the name on Breakaway Casino account does not match the name on the credit card(s) used to deposit money into the account.
b. If you provide false and or misleading information used to open Breakaway Casino account.
c. If you are not of legal age in the jurisdiction where you reside.
d. If you reside in a jurisdiction, where law prohibits the use and participation of such games.
e. If you have allowed or permitted (purposely or not) another party to play on Breakaway Casino account.
f. If you have reversed or charged back any of your purchases on Breakaway Casino account.
g. You are allowed ONLY ONE ACCOUNT. Winnings will only be paid to players having ONE account. If you have more than one account, all winnings and bonuses will be VOID.
h. If you are found cheating or if it is determined by Breakaway CASINO that you have used a system or machine, be, it an additional computer, additional software or otherwise used to circumvent the natural randomness of our systems.
i. The name on the casino account does not match the name of the beneficial owner of the financial instrument used to make the deposit or withdrawal. "

Are you stating that he violated one of the subclauses a-i? If so, which one? If not, how can you seize his winnings?

There must be something more to this that you are not saying. Otherwise, I hope that $800 was worth the damage to your reputation.

 

[mrracetrack]

Posted by the SciFiGroup rep:

However, while waiting for your documents, a routine background check was done and based on your history in other casinos, our Management decided to close your account.

So you admit that your casino group does indeed have a "black book" and you exchange player info with other casinos?

Would you care to tell us what other casinos you share player information with?

 

[Reynier]

First of all, I only received the email that I was marked as a bonus abuser AFTER the 800 winnings that I made with my deposit, were deleted, and AFTER (to be more precise, during) I made the call with Jamy about why my winnings were deleted..

Also, you did indeed tell me the money would be returned to my Neteller.. When I logged in it was in my account.. The SECOND time I played, won and cashed out, you did the same thing, same email, but cashed out the 200 remaining to my Neteller. You didn't do this the first time, it was just sitting in my account. No withdrawal was made. The second time the manager made a withdrawal so indeed the money would end up in my Neteller after sending in the docs...

And now that you have admitted that I won the money fair and square using my own money, please pay up!

 

[Reynier]

Here are the dates of the emails I received:

30-09: Welcome to Breakaway Casino
30-09: Neteller deposit approved
02-10: Neteller Withdrawal request received
02-10: your withdrawal (stating the bonus was not available bla bla bla)
03-10: Neteller Withdrawal request denied
03-10: Neteller Withdrawal request received (this is the 1k winnings)
03-10: Neteller withdrawal request denied
03-10: Neteller withdrawal request received (now they did request a cashout for the 200 deposit)
05-10: your withdrawal

Oke so the last email, was send during my call with Jamy about my cashout and was as followed:

Hello Ruben,

We regret to inform you that Management decided to return your deposit and immediately close your account due to possible abuse Outdated URL (Invalid) Please provide the following documents as soon as possible in order to due the transfer:

-Security Form filled out entirely and signed (hand written).
-Copy of your driver’s license, passport or any other legal documentation that states your current street/home address and signature.
-Copy of a utility bill. It has to include your name and physical address.

We appreciate your cooperation.

Respectfully,

Break Away Casino Security Department

Before my account wasn't closed (I can still log in by the way..!) and for me there was no reason that I wasn't welcome to play anymore..

 

[The Dude]

...
So you admit that your casino group does indeed have a "black book" and you exchange player info with other casinos?

Would you care to tell us what other casinos you share player information with?

Don't forget that the Sci-fi group is a member of this forum, and he can probably walk and chew gum at the same time. No one needs a "blackbook" to figure out that Reynier is a problematic player. No offense Reynier, but you have been complaining in the forum on a number of RTGs

Casino Extreme (where you even posted your name):
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/casino-extreme-pay-out-problem.16997/
Connect-to-casino
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/connect-2-casino-not-paying-resolved.17130/
Club Player
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/club-player-casino-not-paying.17483/
Palace of Chance
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/17945/
Breakaway Casino
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/breakaway-casino-stealing-my-winnings.20406/

So in essence, Reynier has created his own very "public" blackbook.

 

[Reynier]

Still that's no reason to deny me the winnings I won with my own deposit..

 

[chuchu59]

Yeah, throw this player out from these casino and forbid him from entering in future. However, the winnings are 100% legitimate and he should be paid.

 

[The Dude]

Still that's no reason to deny me the winnings I won with my own deposit..

But if you choose to constantly complain on pubic message boards, what do you expect?

 

[happygobrokey]

well in their defence, they do cite "possible abuse" not outright actual abuse.

just kidding though, if you only used your own money how could you possibly abuse?

you did try to take a bonus you apparently weren't allowed to, but in that case they should have pulled the abuse clause on you earlier for that particular event, and even in which case why would they keep you from playing there without bonus, in which case you would have done and those winnings would be fair. and they are, since they never stopped you playing and you had no bonus money to abuse.

without a doubt they should pay.

But if you choose to constantly complain on pubic message boards, what do you expect?

made a little "oopsie" in that post, meister. can you see it?

 

[chuchu59]

But if you choose to constantly complain on pubic message boards, what do you expect?

I dont get it. I remember that a rogue casino once used an excuse not to pay and that was the player made a complaint here at CM. Even if the player had been making complaints here and everywhere giving it the negative publicity the casino did not want this can only serve to close his account after all dues are paid. In this particular case, the casino decided to close his account after he won and he subsequently complained here and this is the sequence of events. So how on earth are we now saying that he complained too much and deserved this shabby treatment. They decided not to pay him before he posted.

 

[The Dude]

I dont get it. I remember that a rogue casino once used an excuse not to pay and that was the player made a complaint here at CM. Even if the player had been making complaints here and everywhere giving it the negative publicity the casino did not want this can only serve to close his account after all dues are paid. In this particular case, the casino decided to close his account after he won and he subsequently complained here and this is the sequence of events. So how on earth are we now saying that he complained too much and deserved this shabby treatment. They decided not to pay him before he posted.

Perhaps I'm being misunderstood - I'm not siding with anyone here. I'm just pointing out that casino managers monitor these boards (especially when they are members as well) and when they see individuals who have posted a number of complaints, they take notice.

It's just the way things are in this world. If you complain, normally you'll get noticed. If you complain a lot - they will notice you even more.

And I'm not saying that this pertains to Reynier's situation - I'm just illustrating a scenerio.

@ Reynier - do you have a link to the page you Googled? Check your browser history.

 

[Reynier]

Euhmz, I'm on a Mac, I have no clue as to where I can find any browser history??

EDIT: Nevermind, found it but can't find the Google search page... Maybe if I search it really thorough.. Let you know later..

About my "history" on the board.. It doesn't really have to do anything with my play, but more with the fact that I'm Dutch which caused me a lot of trouble.. See the other threads for an obvious explanation..

 

[1819]

how come they dont use these "routine checks" to verify i.d.? i mean if they run these checks for our protection. lol, as well as theirs, why do they still need people to send in docs.? cant they rely on their routine check? what a crock. and yes a 500% bonus is insane. give me 500% so i can cash out 200 bucks? thanx. get while the gettin is good fellas. when the major companies take over, these places will be the "crack dens" of the industry. will be? are? you know what i mean.

 

[Cargal]

Yes. I did get my deposit back BEFORE I EVER PaB. I had already recieved my deposit back before I contacted you about it.
Thank you for whatever time you put into it.
I can tell you that there isnt much fact there in your reply to me. You seem to have took the casinos word and called it a day with no further investigation or questions.
I am telling you that they didnt contact me and ask for fax back. LOL, why would they?
See, the misconception from the posters here is that it was me that figured that I couldnt get paid and gave up on it. The truth is that I contacted them immediately upon being locked out of my account and asked them to send me my money. They never contacted me to tell me I had money there, or explain how to get it out. NO, they simply locked my american account and never said a word about it. I had to contact them.
THEN, They said that they had no way to pay me and that I was out of luck for the time being. Thats it! They simply told me that they could not process any transaction to pay me! They never contacted me to tell me about eco card, I found it out myself and contacted them. THATS when they first mentioned a "grace period". This supposed "grace period" would have already elapsed well before I found out about eco card and contacted them. So what a great plan they have. "you have 30 days to get your money out but we cant pay you anyways" LOL! This is silly.

You know, You say "you are not out a cent from your own pocket". To me this is crazy. Of course I am. ALL OF THAT MONEY IN THE ACCOUNT IS MINE and the casino has NO RIGHT to decide if I get it or not. That is the exact attitude that gives these casinos the courage to confiscate winnings all the time. Why would anyone condone this as appropriate behaviour? If I go to a landbased casino and win is it ok for them to keep my money? I think not! When did stealing players money become acceptable on this forum? How is this not taking money from me? It IS mine - I won it fair and square! If I lost $400 would it be ok for me to take it back? No, this is insanity.
I had $400 in that account. I asked for it right away - but that shouldn't be a point anyways. Its my dang money. If I wanted to wait, what business do they have to tell me that I cant. It certainly wasnt in their T&C! This "grace period" is a bunch of BS. Any legit company would not do this. It is MY money. If they wanted to balance their books then they should remit all outstanding balances. How does adding my $400 balance anything? They now have a surplus which is the money that they stole from me.

The bottom line is that I had $400 in that account. I want it back. I have sent the fax back forms and all other docs. Now what right would they have to steal this money?

Well gaydave is not alone in this bad treatment. I too am American and I too had my account locked with money in it. I had $800 I believe and I got on live chat with them and they told me that they could not send me any payment because they had no way of getting it to me since I lived in America. They never contacted me with any explanation about my money or how to get it out and they never told me about eco card or even mentioned any possible solution about my money. They just kept it and ignored me. I had no idea what to do but I know it is wrong!! I had never heard of eco card and I have not played online casinos nearly as much since my accounts at breakaway and sci fi were closed. So I contacted again and they said that I had missed my chance and that my account was zeroed out and there is no records. This I know is a lie but I don't know how to make them pay me my money. I understand the passion that gaydave has. I am outraged at them. It was always my money and never was it theirs. How dare they steal it from me under cowardly and false reasons?
If there is any honor or reason for players to play at your casinos at all then do the right thing and pay Reynier his $1000. Then pay gaydave his $400. Then pay me the $800 that you are trying to steal. Anything else is pure theft and you will be known as a thief. Could there be any reason to believe anything you say ever again if not? People on this forum have common sense and your twisted reasons for stealing players money (sorry casinomeister, it IS the players money and it is out of pocket losses if the casino keeps any of it. To think in the direction of your response sets a very bad tone for online casinos treatment of players!).
Do the right thing and make everyone happy. Anything less is unacceptable.

 

[chuchu59]

If I am correct, 3 Dice is able to send payments to US players within a reasonable time frame. Why cant the other casinos do the same.

 

[USA2112]

This SciFi reply makes no sense.
1.) It is stated clearly the 500% is a limited time offer that is not launch yet.
2.) That no promotional information has been posted anywhere.

Then I would have to ask.
where did Reynier find the offer if it is not lauch yet.

Also how do you reveiw the terms or download through a specific banner if no information is posted anywhere.
They make this statement.
in this case Ruben (or Reynier), if you review the terms and conditions of this promotion you will see that it clearly states: This promotion is only valid when download is done by clicking on a banner of an affiliate web site. This is one of the few lines of the Terms and Conditions, so it is in no way “hidden in the small print.

I’d like to start by explaining that this 500% bonus is a “limited time only” promotion that has not been launched yet and therefore no promotional information has been posted anywhere. It’s a special promotion for specific players that come to our casino through specific affiliates. It is not an insane bonus, just a one time opportunity.

The terms and conditions are clearly stated. A few months ago, when we launched a similar promotion for one week, many players happily received their winnings. We are a reputable casino and we would never risk our name by creating promotions and offering bonuses if we don’t intend to pay well earned winnings.

Nevertheless, in this case Ruben (or Reynier), if you review the terms and conditions of this promotion you will see that it clearly states: This promotion is only valid when download is done by clicking on a banner of an affiliate web site. This is one of the few lines of the Terms and Conditions, so it is in no way “hidden in the small print”

Also the email, they make this statement.
The email did not say “your deposit will be returned to your account”, it says “to your NETeller account”

What the heck does this have to do with anything the withdrawl was refused and the money would have been held in his account anyway and for him to decide what to do with it, it was still his money. Now even though it clearly seems he should not have used the bonus this is after the fact and if he decided to play his own money and won "like he did" he should be paid.

Heres the funny part, do you think if he would have lost his $200 that this would even be taking place, the answer is simple NO.

In the email we sent you on October 1st, the one you refer to as the next day, our Security department said:

We will return your deposit to your NETeller account, please send the following documents in order to make the transfer…

The email did not say “your deposit will be returned to your account”, it says “to your NETeller account” and in order to do that, we needed your documents. You chose not to send your documents and instead you decided to play.

Usually, we would have been happy to approve and process your withdrawal for $1,000 since, as you mentioned, you were playing with your own money.

This seems to be big BS.
Casinos are now going to be able to go to the nearest forum and call that a background check! Sounds more like grasping at straws for an excuse to try and get out of paying somebody what they are owed.

And being they are not allowed to disclose personal information of their players and share information with other casinos "which we know some do" this could start a big problem for players collecting their winnings.

And it says, a routine background check was done and based on your history in other casinos, our Management decided to close your account.

However, while waiting for your documents, a routine background check was done and based on your history in other casinos, our Management decided to close your account.

This was explained to you in our second email. If you review our casino policies, it says: The casino reserves the right to reclaim bonuses and / or close accounts in situations of apparent abuse or fraud. Bonus hunting/abusing behavior is defined by the management on a case-by-case basis Outdated URL (Invalid)

As soon as we receive your documents, we’ll be pleased to return your deposit to you as we initially offered.

Thank you

Not that, a routine background check was done and based on your opinions "meaning the player" of our casino and other casinos at the nearest gaming forum, our Management decided to close your account.
Hopefully this is not what they base their background check on!
And if they do they need to make that information public in their T&C's

Don't forget that the Sci-fi group is a member of this forum, and he can probably walk and chew gum at the same time. No one needs a "blackbook" to figure out that Reynier is a problematic player. No offense Reynier, but you have been complaining in the forum on a number of RTGs

Casino Extreme (where you even posted your name):
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/casino-extreme-pay-out-problem.16997/
Connect-to-casino
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/connect-2-casino-not-paying-resolved.17130/
Club Player
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/club-player-casino-not-paying.17483/
Palace of Chance
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/17945/
Breakaway Casino
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/breakaway-casino-stealing-my-winnings.20406/

So in essence, Reynier has created his own very "public" blackbook.

I'm just using the casinomeister post as an example,"I'm sure he's doing or has done what he can for this player" But if this is how casinos do their background checks thats not good!

From reading this whole thread it sounds like this casino is trying to steal money from more than one player. They need to pay up and resolve these issues.

Have a great day!
USA2112

 

[chuchu59]

Sorry to barge in but it wouldnt make sense for them to 'steal' from one player only. They need to have done that to scores of players to compensate them for the loss of 'reputation'.

 

[Stanford]

Oh no you didn't................

Usually, we would have been happy to approve and process your withdrawal for $1,000 since, as you mentioned, you were playing with your own money.

However, while waiting for your documents, a routine background check was done and based on your history in other casinos, our Management decided to close your account.

Did you really do this? You took this man's action and then decided afterwards not to pay his winnings even when no bonus is involved?

And then you came onto the premeire watchdog site on the web and admitted it to the world? You admit that you can just not pay someone after the casino loses the wager because of .... whatever?

I can't believe it. CM? This guy just issued you a challenge.

Stanford.

 

[lojo]

Stanford, with all due respect, we don't know what those details are. If PaB Casinomeister will know.

 

[Stanford]

Don't we?

Stanford, with all due respect, we don't know what those details are. If PaB Casinomeister will know.

I suspect we should screen print Sci Fi's response before they change it.

Didn't they just say that normally they would pay the winnings because no bonus was involved but because of the guys background check they decided not to do so?

I am going to paste it here so we don't lose it. SciFiGroup posted:

"Usually, we would have been happy to approve and process your withdrawal for $1,000 since, as you mentioned, you were playing with your own money.

However, while waiting for your documents, a routine background check was done and based on your history in other casinos, our Management decided to close your account.

This was explained to you in our second email. If you review our casino policies, it says: The casino reserves the right to reclaim bonuses and / or close accounts in situations of apparent abuse or fraud. Bonus hunting/abusing behavior is defined by the management on a case-by-case basis Outdated URL (Invalid)

As soon as we receive your documents, well be pleased to return your deposit to you as we initially offered."


Stanford

 

[chuchu59]

Stanford, with all due respect, we don't know what those details are. If PaB Casinomeister will know.

True, but the comment made by Sci-Fi was stupid as it did seem to imply that they did the background check only when the player did not use the bonus for play. Unless the funds he used are illegal any play without a bonus are valid once accepted and if the player wins, he gets paid with no strings attached. The casino can close his account any time they wish but legitimate winnings must be paid.

 

[sdaddy]

However, while waiting for your documents, a routine background check was done and based on your history in other casinos, our Management decided to close your account.

Unless this background check uncovered clear evidence that Reyneir has committed fraud at his accounts within the SciFi group, then he is, by any reasonable standard of fairness, entitled to his winnings. I hope we haven't heard the end of this.

 

[The Dude]

Unless this background check uncovered clear evidence that Reyneir has committed fraud at his accounts within the SciFi group, then he is, by any reasonable standard of fairness, entitled to his winnings. I hope we haven't heard the end of this.

The last I heard was that the two US player issues were being dealt with. I'm not sure about Reynier's.

 

[Reynier]

Well I haven't heard anything from them. Are you in contact with them CM or should I give 'm another call myself?

 

[gaydave]

The last I heard was that the two US player issues were being dealt with. I'm not sure about Reynier's.

I will let you know if they contact me or pay me. Thus far they have just ignored PMs and Emails since they told me they were keeping my money. I sure wish the rep would jump in here and do the right thing