AVOID THE IOG GROUP - Casino Las Vegas, Swiss Casino, Magic Box etc

[jdblingbling]

bump *ahem*

[wootchris]

IOG did the same thing to me except I am UP money which they are now refusing to pay.

IF THEY LOCK YOUR ACCOUNT FOR SOME REASON WHEN YOU ARE UP THEN YOU ARE "ABUSIVE" AND THEY DO NOT DO ANYTHING BUT RETURN DEPOSITS.

IF THEY LOCK YOUR ACCOUNT FOR SOME REASON WHEN YOU ARE DOWN THEN YOU HAVE LEGITIMATE LOSSES ACCORDING TO THEM AND THEY WON'T GIVE YOU YOUR DEPOSITS BACK.

YOU CANT HAVE YOUR CAKE AND EAT IT TOO.

[rreevy]

Sorry to hear about your situation, wootchris, though it's good to see someone posting on this thread again. I always feel it's a shame when these things go quiet without any kind of resolution being reached.

If I understand the original player's case right, he/she had losses at four of the five casinos, but still had a balance with them, from which the bonuses were deducted. My take on these things is simple:

1. Either the player's deposited funds are wagered first, or the bonus funds are wagered first. Casinos cannot choose retrospectively which of these happens, as this would clearly allow them to deal with each case in the way that works out best for them, rather than in a fair and consistent manner.

2. Casinos have the right to refuse to issue a bonus. (I may not like it, but I do accept it). However, once they've actually issued the bonus, they're bound to let the player play it out and make a withdrawal, according to the T&Cs. If the casino then wants to refuse you any future bonuses, then fine. But confiscating a bonus just because they don't like the way you use it, even though you didn't break any T&Cs, is NOT acceptable imo.

[Graham]

Our casino group always tries its best to follow the rules set down in the Terms of Use that all of our players must read and have to agree to in order to become a member of one of our casinos. The player with the issue in question agreed to all of the following statements. We have refunded his original deposit and closed his account.

Below are the specific points in our agreed upon Terms of Use.

9.6 In the event that we will suspect fraud or fraudulent activity on your part or any of your payments are charged back, we will have the right to withhold any pay-out or winning amounts due to you and if necessary, to lawfully collect any payments owed by you.

9.7 We may at any time without prior notice to you terminate your use of the Online Casino and block your Player Account if it considers that you are in breach of any of the terms and provisions of this Agreement or that you are otherwise acting illegally…

9.8 We reserve the right, at our sole discretion, to offer and advertise from time to time promotions, bonuses or other special offers and each such offer will be subject to specific terms and conditions which will be valid for a limited period of time. In connection with the specific terms of the above promotions, bonus and special offers, we further reserve the right to withhold any withdrawal amount from your account which will be in excess of your original deposit. In addition, we reserve the right to withhold or otherwise decline or reverse any pay-out or winning amount or amend any policy in the event that we suspect that you are abusing or attempting to abuse any of the following: (i) bonuses; (ii) other promotions; or (iii) specific policy or rules determined in respect of an existing game or a new game.

If anyone has any questions about our Terms of Use please direct them to me at graham@iogltd.com.

Graham

IOG Casino Group

[kwblue]

Graham....

Seriously - answer the freakin' question. WHAT ABUSE HAPPENED? What was your reasoning for closing the accounts? Nobody is going to feel IOG did the right thing until you answer that question!

I am removing all IOG casinos from my affiliate sites. I won't promote this kind of shit.

PS - I am glad that you refunded his original deposit (yay!), but how do we know this won't happen again?

[Rusty]

Could the Casinos please define exactly what a "Bonus abuser is."
I just dont get it.
It is individual casinos that advertise a first deposit bonus and not the group or software provider so what is the problem with this guy taking up more than one promotion?
Also what are the wagering requirements all about if it is not the Casinos way of making sure their promotions are not open to abuse.

"In the interests of fair gaming we ask our players to wager x amount before a withdrawal can be made."

In the interests of fair gaming I ask the Casinos to simplify a bonus in the following manner;

In the event of a player losing his/her first deposit having made no withdrawal request the Casino offers a bonus of x% of deposit lost.This bonus is cashable and has no WR.

Now of course this would never happen because the Casinos know they would be at real risk from "bonus abuse" but that is what a genuine promotion would look like.

If Casinos are so worried about bonus abuse then stop marketing bonus offers so aggresively, but you wont will you because the end result is they are good for profits, now stop the bullshit.

[sdaddy]

Graham,

You can write in your T&C that you reserve the right to confiscate winnings from a bonus offer if you feel like it, but that won't fly here. Any reputable casino group has to honor a withdrawal from a player who has met the specific wagering requirements and terms of the offer.

I think Casinomeister said it best in the Feb 9 newsletter:

Dealing with Players Who Use Bonuses

If you offer a player a bonus, and this player meets the wagering requirements - pay her (or him). Please understand, you are not being cheated if a player plays the bonus to the last cent; you are providing that player a unique service - the ability to gamble online. This is your function as a casino, and your mantra should be "Pay the player. Pay the player. Pay the player..." Repeat ad nauseum.

Providing gambling activities online may be your function, but with a bit of creativity and ingenuity you can garner loyalty from this player to keep him or her coming back. The house always wins, and if you are going to survive in this highly competitive industry, you need to see this "win" as a long term goal. Keep your players happy, whether you like their style of play or not, and you will receive your just rewards: respect and loyalty.

[rreevy]

They refunded the player's original deposit (singular). Which one? I believe he made a number of deposits at multiple casinos within their group and had winnings off one, which they've confiscated. I don't think they're returning the deposits he lost. In other words they deemed his style of play abusive when he won, but not when he lost.

imo the only 'right' thing to do is pay the player's winnings. Refunding his deposits and banning him isn't great, but it's better than nothing.

Graham, I don't see how points 9.6 and 9.7 are relevant. As far as I'm aware there's no suggestion that the player committed fraud, charged back, or broke any T&Cs.

In connection with the specific terms of the above promotions, bonus and special offers, we further reserve the right to withhold any withdrawal amount from your account which will be in excess of your original deposit.

In other words, if a player uses a bonus and wins, you don't have to do any more than give the deposit back if you don't feel like it. Have I understood that right?

In addition, we reserve the right to withhold or otherwise decline or reverse any pay-out or winning amount or amend any policy in the event that we suspect that you are abusing or attempting to abuse any of the following: (i) bonuses; (ii) other promotions; or (iii) specific policy or rules determined in respect of an existing game or a new game.

I notice you don't define 'abuse', and you reserve the right to do things based on what you suspect, thus shifting the burden of proof onto the player. I doubt this would wash in a properly regulated industry.

[paul02085]

I would call this theft and fraud. I guarantee you they couldnt get away with this if they were regulated. IMO, I would strongly suggest anyone reading this thread to stay far away from these casinos unless you want to get robbed.

What they are doing is no different from sticking a gun in someones back and stealing their wallet.

[frufrugirl]

Seems to me that that Graham's replies are saying..."hey, he was stupid enough to sign this here agreement , so there ! And ...Buh Bye!.."

Well, I apparently have signed stupid agreements but I didnt feel they were stupid because I never entered into a Casino agreement with the intent to defraud and never dreamed that the Casino would think I was defrauding them by taking their offer! I take the bonus's because they are offered and I really want to play!
How many new people are coming online to "Cheat the casinos?" not many i'd say but, 100% are there to try and BEAT the Casino because WE ALL WANT TO WIN !! We figure..Hey! Good deal! Maybe I can win! I'll put 100.00 of my money down if they will match it! Never mind that I have to risk it all by trying to make the WR..but hey..Maybe I can! Never know! It's a gamble and that goes on BOTH SIDES!!!!
Isnt that what the bonus's are supposed to do? Bring in the customers? Increase our enjoyment of the casino so we come back? Isnt that what all the razzel dazzel and bling bling on the casino banners is all about? Come on in and WIN!! RETIRE EARLY!! Sheez! I'm so sick of this Bonus crap!

Come on..tell us what rule did my Pacific NW buddy violate?

Thank you for letting me vent. I still like bonuses.