Major Absolute Poker Issue

[pokeraddict]

If it is forged why wouldn't AP be claiming that? Even in their BS statements they have never denied the facts posted, only that the facts were just a small sample. Now that there is a damaging master hh out there they still have said nothing denying it. The master hh has been confirmed by others as what AP has sent out in the past. The hh's have also been backed up by those involved in hands as legit. You seem to have ignored al this. From here on I think I will simply dismiss all this as being troll like, there is no reason for me to waste my time on the 1 person in the industry that still does not believe.

[lots0]

If it is forged why wouldn't AP be claiming that?

Oh that is a good one... some more real evidence... NOT!

Why should they reply? Are they going to be any better off after they reply? Is any response from AP going to stop the lynch mob... I don't think so.

I think AP management are being smart at this point not to discuss this until some real evidence is presented.

If they deny the accusations they give the accusations credibility, why should they do that?

The master hh has been confirmed by others as what AP has sent out in the past.

Again, so what? If you won't let me see it, it is not really evidence is it?

Other poker rooms send out complete hand histories after the game has been archived. SO again where is your evidence?

And I am not the ONLY person that does not believe these accusations, no matter how much you would like to believe otherwise.

Ya I am a troll...A fucking troll that wants evidence and not just more bullshit that don't prove anything.

BTW pokeraddict, this is at least the third time in this thread you said you were going to ignore me or insinuated I was a troll... If your not going to provide any real evidence... Please go ahead and ignore me, but I won't do the same. I will still question you and ask you to provide evidence of the accusations you are making.

[ThodorisK]

I have already posted my arguments in the threads:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/...ms-rigged.html
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/...nos-cheat.html
Anyway, I will briefly repeat them here:

Why would the pokerooms have an interest in cheating poker players since they earn a large and steady rake? Because if all the players had about the same poker skill, then in the long run all of the deposited money would end up to the rake. But if some players because of their skill have an edge over the rest of the players which is greater than the x% rake, e.g. (x+1)%, (in many cases the rake is lower than 5% because of bonuses, rakebacks etc), then these players would keep taking a considerable percentage of the deposited money, and only the rest would be going to the rake. But if the casino cheats these players, then the casino will keep the 100% of the deposited money. You might say the casino can simply cheat the winners. Yes, this can be the case too. But what really matters is who is or will be a winner in the long run.

Yeah, right, “they wouldn’t cheat because this would be exposed”. No, it cannot be exposed. A cheating of 1-3 out of 100 hands is perhaps enough to eliminate any edge a poker player can have after the rake (well, if not eliminate it, of course it decreases it) , and it is almost impossible to be statistically proven with a satisfactory degree of statistical certainty, even in the game of blackjack, imagine how impossible it is in the complicated game of poker.
SO SINCE IT IS THAT IMPOSSIBLE TO PROOVE SUCH A LITTLE CHEATING, THEN WHY WOULDN’T THE POKER ROOMS CHEAT A LITTLE?

But most pokerooms do not even bother to cheat little enough in order to hide it. Obviously because so far, no matter how much they increased the rate of cheating, this was not getting exposed by player communication in the forums, and because this poor way of communication is so far the only way this could be exposed. And the casinos also took care to fill up the forums with shills and affiliates who would quickly fill up the threads with many and long posts so any accusing arguments would be difficult to find or to read and think on them. The owners of the forums themselves are affiliates. The casino adverts in them prove this. Now you are accusing Absolute for cheating, like you discovered America. And even then, you tried to present it is as the work of hackers who were common players and had no association with the casino. And not a word that the other casinos might cheat as well. Implying that if any other casinos cheated, this would be immediately exposed like the case of Absolute.
Why did almost all of you attacked me as being out of my mind, that I lost because of my bad poker play, that “they have no reason to cheat”, etc etc, when I accused pokerooms of cheating? It is damn obvious that such arguments come from posters who have common interests with the casinos. The most amusing argument I read, is that it is we who have to prove that casinos cheat and not the casinos who have to prove to us they don’t cheat. Implying that without very strong statistical indications, the probability that they don’t cheat is almost 100% so we are out of our minds just because we give a considerable probability that they do cheat. Of course, the blinding obvious truth is that since they have an interest to cheat, and since it is not possible to statistically prove a little cheating, then the more probable case is that they do cheat a little, even if there were no statistical indications.

I have played thousands of hands at William Hill and Sportingbet.
But I have also played at 888.com, Ladbrokes, Grosvernor, and some others.
Some preflop hands (e.g. AA, KK, QQ, JJ, AK, AQ, AJ, KQ, etc ) as well as some flop hands (e.g. flopping a top pair when having such a strong preflop hand) are bound to produce profit in the long run even after a 5% rake, if you are not the most stupid player of the world. Therefore when after many hundreds of hands, exactly because of these strong hands, you end up with great losses (compared with the money you wagered) instead of great profits, then the probability of such an extremely bad luck happening is less than 5%, perhaps much less than 1%. This is statistical evidence for cheating.
No, my losses were not because of the post blinds, as I chose to play no limit where the posts were 1/50 or 1/100 of the average pot.
No, my losses were not because of the fact that I lost much when I lost and won little when I won because of my bad play. I am not the most stupid poker player of the world. Of course this thing happened, but not because of exceptional stupid play of mine, but because of cheating or very rare bad luck. But a very rare bad luck is itself the definition of statistical evidence for cheating.

[happygobrokey]

Originally Posted by lots0

What is the source of those hand histories? Why can't it be published? (you know made public). I am expected to believe these forum posts without question? Without evidence?

Really where is it, I haven't seen it. Care to post some links? Show an email header? Show an Email or even just something a little more than, "jeez look what I can post in an open forum"...

No kidding? Well where is your evidence? All I am asking is for you or one of your buddies to just show me the evidence and stop telling me all about it.

Really, then why can't you show it to me and not just tell me about it? I want to see where the information comes from... is that too much to ask? Well I guess so.

You can prove an online casino is rigged. So your argument is moot.

Again all I am asking for is to see the evidence for myself and NOT just have someone I don't know keep telling me that the evidence is there...

Why is that so hard to do?

that's jokes, pal. for one, i don't play there.

the hand histories are the evidence. they came from absolute. it has been published, by being presented openly in public.

people on the witness stand SAY what they KNOW. they can't take you back to the scene or re-enact it for the jury. the jury doesn't know the witnesses, but those are the people that have the evidence and report it. they don't bring the jury to the robbed store, or roll the dead body into the courtroom.

only the cheaters could SHOW you that they were cheating. the evidence you and we all get to see is what happened in the games, from the people who were playing.

so how do you PROVE a casino is rigged? you say it's possible, so how is it done? unless you are looking at the program code and are able to decipher it to show that it manipulates outcomes, all you have to go on is hand after hand of statistics, which is the same situation as here. the hand histories show that it is statistically impossible for the player to have done what he did without having access to more information than those that he was playing against. with casino rigging, you look at the results and when you have enough stats to prove it's statisticall impossible for the game to be fair, that's how you know it's rigged. so i don't see what you're getting at with that point.

all you ever say is show me evidence. hand histories are evidence. making the correct decision every single time without fail is evidence. if you were there at the time and witnessed the game, then you would have the evidence you seek. since you weren't, you take the evidence presented by the witnesses and go by that.

oh well. be obtuse. believe that so many people are perjoring and corroborating and fabricating hand histories and wasting all their time in concert trying to sully the name of a poker site. it's all good. fuck those whiners, they lost money and are making up bullshit to try to steal their money back. bloody ingrates.

[pokeraddict]

Watch Potripper's entire tourney in a replayer.



I'm sure shortly it will be on Youtube as there is some controversy about it being on a login site. You can view them for free but you have to sign up. It's some sick stuff.

http://www.pokerxfactor.com/servlet/pxf?a=mv&handid=90370&t=myhand2&fn=2_20071014_1907 11|2&time=1192473858401

Username: baba@baba.com
pw: bababa

[pokeraddict]

Thodo, I saw your post in BBV at 2+2. You're really just going to get flamed there trying to use one rogue poker room's behavior to make a blanket online poker is rigged statement. It won't do any good, especially in the threads about this.

[GaryWatson]

Originally Posted by pokeraddict

Thodo, I saw your post in BBV at 2+2. You're really just going to get flamed there trying to use one rogue poker room's behavior to make a blanket online poker is rigged statement. It won't do any good, especially in the threads about this.

LMAO, God loves a trier. Sendin you some more rep points Theo

[I Like Pie]

Why are people still responding to lots0? He's just being a troll. Ignore him and he might go away.
Anyone with a brain can see all this evidence is damning.

[pokeraddict]

It looks like BW has delisted AP and UB. I'm trying to find out for sure.

[ThodorisK]

What's BW and UB? AP is Absolute poker right?