Major Absolute Poker Issue

[Swede]

Originally Posted by pokeraddict

The estimates of the money stolen by the cheats run anywhere from $300,000-$700,000.

I just finished reading the whole thread, it's getting a bit big. Isn't it possible these numbers could be even higher?

[pokeraddict]

Originally Posted by Swede

I just finished reading the whole thread, it's getting a bit big. Isn't it possible these numbers could be even higher?

Certainly, the amount stolen will be almost impossible to figure out. Adanthar is trying to gather all possible hand histories to figure out how much has been stolen. The real question is what AP will do. The players deserve their money back and every day AP hides is one more day of losing what little is left of their reputation. If it turns out AP's security is terrible then maybe they can seize some or most of these funds and redistribute them. If it turns out that Absolute Poker has been stealing then there is no telling what might happen. Who know, if they have been involved in this then they could close shop and run off with all the money. Regardless I can't think of a worse place to put your bankroll right now.

It's ironic that AP was pushing their 9% interest for Elite VIP's trying to attract the type of player that would have been taken in this scam. Many were very skeptical about that offer, now many wonder including myself if that was a way to get people into these cheating games.

[pokeraddict]

The original thread got too big and got locked so here are some good cliff notes and the new thread.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...0&fpart=1&vc=1

[lots0]

There is NO PROOF, only accusations.

The idea of a AP 'super user' account with access to their opponents hole cards, that is approved by AP management seems to me a lot like an idea that someone on crack would think up...

I think what some are calling "proof" is outrageous... a couple of play by play hands posted on forum (by who?) and it is now incontrovertibly proof? Come on...

Let me ask you all one question:
Why would AP Management allow this kind of thing to go on when as soon as it was discovered (and proven) it would all be over for AP, they would be out of business? Why would AP risk it all so one or two players (or even ten or twenty) can score big at the higher limit games??? Why risk millions and millions and millions a year in profits so a few players can make a few hundred thousand???

Now if the theory was that AP's software could be cracked by a team of hackers from Albania, that might be more believable, but only a little more...

pokeraddict, I don't understand, In previous threads where you trashed AP you said you had not played at Absolute Poker in years and years... So what's your beef with AP this month? Didn't you say last month AP was cheating on the rakes? or was that the month before that or the month before that??

[Mousey]

I know I don't stay abreast of all things Poker, but... I'm having a very strong feeling of deja vu ... Wasn't this same sort of suspicion/conclusion/accusation discussed at length at that forum a couple of months ago -- but with another poker room as the subject of concern? If so, whatever became of that?

[pokeraddict]

pokeraddict, I don't understand, In previous threads where you trashed AP you said you had not played at Absolute Poker in years and years... So what's your beef with AP this month? Didn't you say last month AP was cheating on the rakes? or was that the month before that or the month before that??

If by reading the endless hh's and seeing the PT screenshots with his infinite AF and his and other's impossible stats you are not a believer then I do not think you understand how to read hh's and Poker Tracker.

This is not a vendetta by any means. This is a VERY VERY serious problem that AP still has yet to address and has had ample time to do so. The PT screenshots are proof, if that is not convincing those accounts are cheats I can't think of what you would need to believe it. My guess is that you have never used PT and don't understand things like AF and that a 94/72 with overall AF of over 10 is never going to produce like that even over the smallest of samples. Also how did these players never lose a river after only raising, betting or folding?

My problems with AP dates back about a year. AP has cheated players on pending bonuses by changing terms while player cleared them, cheated affiliates on payments by changing agreements already entered into and cheated players on rakeback. On top of that they have been on a massive spam/shill campaign at a forum I moderate. Add to this the endless changes to the BBJ that affect players that have already contributed and you already have what I feel is a shady poker room. None of these have anything to do with posting a link to the thread at 2+2 with damning evidence that players are cheating at AP and that AP is either involved or has let it go on. They have also ignored many emails from players both before and after this came out about these players. You will see that I do not just take cheap shots at AP. Even in this forum you will see me help players with small problems with AP and even defend them to some extent. AP is mentioned all the time in a forum I moderate and I never trash them there either.

If you want to ignore the fact that a player cannot have an infinite AF in a fair game or that a player cannot win 30BB/100 while playing 94/72 and winning almost 100% at the showdown then that is your choice. Also the cheating accounts are 300ptbb/100 in $2000 NL with almost identical stats.

What is so funny is that one of the accounts just dumped $27,000 in 10/20 NL in what is a classic chip dump. In one hand he called an allin with an unmatched 34.

Whether you believe this or not I would have posted this no matter what poker room it was. The fact it involves a poker room I've called out many times for being shady really only proves I've been right about them all along doesn't it? Keep in mind I was not the first to post about it here or any other public forum (there is a small private forum I let other members know). This is a very important industry development, not just some gossip. IMO and virtually every other poker player's opinion the stats these players show in PT are impossible in a fair game and AP is at the very least incompetent and likely much worse IMO. If you don't believe there is cheating going after all the evidence posted in all those 2+2 threads then I don't think anything will ever convince you. That's the great thing about places like this, we can all speak our mind and draw our own conclusions.

[Zoozie]

Originally Posted by pokeraddict

If you want to ignore the fact that a player cannot have an infinite AF in a fair game or that a player cannot win 30BB/100 while playing 94/72 and winning almost 100% at the showdown then that is your choice. Also the cheating accounts are 300ptbb/100 in $2000 NL with almost identical stats.

I have read the whole thread. Unless the PT screenshots are fake which I doubt since they come from several known pro's - there is no shadow of doubt that rigged games is happening. Not just slightly rigged, but rigged so bad it is too obvious, which is hard to explain why they would cheat this much.

Noone can be 'crushing' the game at that impossible BB/100 hand rate with those PT stats.(or even with 'normal' PT stats) The 3 players (or same with different aliases) has been doing that both against the best FL players and NL players.

The outcome of this thread will be interesting and it seems the 2+2 forum administration (poker guru's) will look into it. It will either the be greatest hoax or poker disaster in many years.

[Casinomeister]

I've asked Absolute Poker to respond to this thread. Hopefully they will

[pokeraddict]

Originally Posted by Casinomeister

I've asked Absolute Poker to respond to this thread. Hopefully they will

For 5 days or so AP has been nagged to respond and has not. One of the suspect accounts was even playing tonight dumping insane amount of chips. One hand he called an unimproved 34 for $1700. The 34 was the worst or second worst possible hand. There were many other oddities not consistant with the player's stats. People were outing him at the table for being a cheat too. It was one of the oddest things I've seen in online poker. He dumped tens of thousands of dollars seemingly intent on dumping his stacks.

Whatever the deal is they are nuts for not locking this account or at least renaming him if they really feel nothing is wrong. To have one of these accused accounts playing with the overwhelming evidence against them leaves most of the poker community scratching its heads. This is of course a very hot topic on most poker fora. It's not going away any time soon.

[GaryWatson]

AP's style is to sweep things under the carpet. On this occasion however, I cannot see how they can respond. I dont buy into the idea that an outsider hacked into the system. AP would have flagged these accounts well before now. I cant imagine their high stakes players sticking around either way.

They really need to be investigated. I had question marks over them for other issues but this could kill online poker quicker than any gambling bill.

Mud sticks but this seems to be more than just a rumor. Ive heard all the rigged stories before and they can usually be explained away, but this?