Major Absolute Poker Issue

[GaryWatson]

Originally Posted by WholeBean

O.K. Here’s my nitty argument: Stop using the term chip dumping for what has happened. Chip dumping indicates a specific type of fraud. Chip dumping is a violation of a site’s terms and conditions because it is directly related with credit card fraud and account hijacking (correct me if I’m wrong). From what I’ve seen posted here the accused accounts have lost money intentionally to random opponents, not chip dumping. Although something suspicious is going on, losing money on purpose probably does not violate a site’s terms and conditions.

I hope you agree. The use of the term is inflammatory and detracts from the original accusation of hole card cheating.

WholeBean

I would say chip dumping means offloading chips. The player has intentionally misplayed the hands for whatever reason. The reason makes no real difference. Chips were being dumped. Yes, it is against the terms & conditions. Yes, it appears fraudulent. Maybe it was dumped to random players, maybe it wasnt. Maybe the security team have left town. Maybe they are out in full force responding to forum comments,

The use of the term was accurate & instead of detracting from the hole card argument, it actually adds flame to the fire.

[WholeBean]

Quote from Gary: The player has intentionally misplayed the hands for whatever reason. The reason makes no real difference.

I disagree. I'm just looking at this from both sides. There are complaints about player xyz indicating chip dumping. Security breaks out the manual and starts checking off conditions which must be met in order to prove chip dumping.
Condition 1) did player loose chips in a manner that appears deliberate? Yes.
Condition 2) did player recently deposit the dumped money using stolen credit card? No.
Condition 3) is an unauthorized person using the account to dump chips? (hopefully they call the account owner on this one) Answer: No.

Result: conditions constituting chip dumping have not been met. Account is free to play.

So, the reason the accused accounts are loosing chips in an obvious manner is to cover their obvious cheat play by playing like the donkeys their poker tracker stats suggest they are? O.K. I don't have a problem with that. It's just that that reason to loose chips doesn't meet the conditions of chip dumping as I understand them.

I kind of think I'm beating a dead horse here though. Probably I got into this discussion to late. I mean, if your going to insinuate that I work for AP, than I guess you've decided it's just easier to attack the person rather than discuss the points.

WholeBean

[jetset]

http://www.poker-king.com:80/poker-k...hp?article=258

Looks as if Poker-King has been unable to elicit a statement from Absolute in the way that Bryan has.

[jetset]

Originally Posted by SlotsWizard

Lots0 is a no-BS, opinionated kind of guy. We aren't all going to agree on everything. I happen to feel that AP is up to no good here, and just because Lots0 disagrees with me doesn't mean I'm going to bash him.

Now can we move on and try to keep this thread about Absolute...

Good post, SlotsWizard - let's try and keep the thread on track, disciplined and with respect for each other's right to an individual opinion.

[jetset]

Wholebean - btw I don't see GaryWatson attacking you - he's debating the issue of chip dumping with you.

[GaryWatson]

Originally Posted by jetset

http://www.poker-king.com:80/poker-k...hp?article=258

Looks as if Poker-King has been unable to elicit a statement from Absolute in the way that Bryan has.

IMO, AP have sent a bunch of people into forums to discredit any suggestions of dishonesty. They have made no attempt to answer in any reasonable detail.

Currently, they stand to lose all of the serious players at 2+2 and beyond. They are banking on the 90% who do not read forums. Word gets around pretty quickly. It is probably costing them overtime payments sending staff to answer forum threads like this. It costs them nothing to come out and make an honest response. It looks as though they cant.

AP, at first was probably expecting this to blow over. Now they are hoping. They are not only losing players but they are losing the affiliates who bring them future players.

As for the chip dumping term, it only takes a regular poker player to read the 2+2 thread to work that out.

If AP are innocent, they need to investigate their staff

[SeattleSinner]

It just occured to me that if AP would admit that something has happend they would be responsible to refund all the loses players have acquired against these cheats. This would amount to millions of dollars which they quite possibly could not afford. Hopefully word will spread around and this shyster operation will go under.

[Pinababy69]

Originally Posted by WholeBean

the accused accounts have lost money intentionally to random opponents,

That is the definition of chip dumping, is it not? When you lose money INTENTIONALLY, you are dumping.

In any event, the chip dumping is only a part of the story. There was fraud/cheating going on prior to the chip dumping. The theory is that they then went and lost intentionally to try and "cover up" what they had done. I've seen the hand histories that were posted...it was chip dumping, no two ways about it.

Edit: Sorry Wholebean, I just read your above post. The chips may not have been obtained via a fraudulent payment method ie. credit card. BUT, they were certainly obtained by fraudulent play. Of course, if you're a non-believer that these accounts cheated at all....I guess that won't fly for you.

[Casinomeister]

Originally Posted by jetset

http://www.poker-king.com:80/poker-k...hp?article=258

Looks as if Poker-King has been unable to elicit a statement from Absolute in the way that Bryan has.

I'm just checking my inbox tonight and YES, I have two more responses from Absolute Poker. This is after I acknowledged their first response (which I posted earlier). I wrote them back with the following:

Hi Christian,

Thanks for the response. Please keep me up to date on the
investigation since this thread is getting a bit of traffic, and it is
pretty much in the forefront of the poker news.

With what has been posted, it seems that there is a fair bit of
collusion going on. I hope you can find out exactly what is happening.

Sincerely,


Bryan

So they wrote me back:

Dear Mr. Wilson,

Thank you for your email.

We were unable to locate an account under the email address bryan@casinomeister.com. Please keep in mind that we will be more than happy to provide any information you may require regarding the mentioned account, once we verify you are the account holder.

To ensure the security of our customers' account, it is our policy not to provide any information about an account to anyone but the account holder. To verify that you are the owner of the account, you contact us from the registered email address or send us an email with the following information:

- Complete Name
- Nickname
- Registered email address
- Complete physical address
- Phone number
- Deposit method and ID details
- Zip code

By submitting this information, we will confirm your account rights and then we can properly provide you with the requested information.

Remember, that we are always eager to help our customers, however for your own security we hope you understand that sometimes we need conduct security checks, to ensure that your personal information is not distributed to any one other than yourself.

Thanks for playing at Absolute Poker! If there is anything else we can help you with, please let us know. We are here for you!

Sincerely,

Dan

Who da ef is Mr. Wilson? And then this one:

Dear Bryan,

Thank you for writing us back!

At Absolute Poker, we want to make sure that your experience at our tables is great and will strive to do everything possible to meet this goal.

Please let us inform you that will keep you updated in the events of news.

Feel free to contact us again, should you have further questions or concerns.

Have a nice day!

Thanks for playing at Absolute Poker!

Sincerely,

Ana
Team Absolute ~ Customer Support
"To Continue to be the Best and Most Trusted"
Support@AbsolutePoker.Com

We’re Here To Stay! All Players Welcome!

Come and join the action this weekend with our 150k guaranteed on Saturday and 60k on Sunday! With more and bigger guaranteed tournaments, Absolute Poker is your place to play. See you at the tables whenever, wherever!

Why in the hell do they wish that my experience at their tables is great? I'm not a customer, unless they think I'm Mr. Wilson

Looks like someone is doing some hellacious bong hits in Costa Rica.

[Pinababy69]

Originally Posted by Casinomeister

Why in the hell do they wish that my experience at their tables is great? I'm not a customer, unless they think I'm Mr. Wilson

Too much Bryan, that is friggin priceless. And anyone wonders why they can't find any evidence of wrongdoing? They can't even find their own bloody customers, or hand histories of existing customers. Honest mistake I'm sure, Mr. Wilson and Mr. Bailey are so very close.

Here's the head of Security out on a smoke break (sorry, no bong pics handy, a joint will have to do).