Major Absolute Poker Issue

[pokeraddict]

Originally Posted by lots0

So you know for a fact and can prove that Absolute Poker took no action whatsoever immediately on becoming aware of the accusations and having been provided the hand histories involved?

You can prove that AP did not start the investigation process or take any other action at all on becoming aware of these accusations?

Cool lets see your proof of this so called "fact".

Maybe it would be better to say that you BELIEVE AP took no action...

Actually an account involved in this disaster was dumping tens of thousands of dollars days after the accusations were flying and who knows how many people emailing hh's to AP. It's safe to say they took no action. The chip dumping on multiple nights warranted an immediate locking. From an earlier post you don't seem to grasp how important it is to catch chip dumping.

Also just so you understand PT. PT takes the hand histories off your own hard drive (where AP's software stores it) and converts them. No is no central db on PT's site. Everybody has the hands they have either played or datamined. If PT went out of business today the software would work until a particular poker room changed their format of the hh's. Whether their site is up or not is not relevent.

[BBKPoker]

Originally Posted by pokeraddict

You seem to have an axe to grind with me about exposing AP's many shady ways. On top of that your constant defending of them in this situation really makes me wonder what your agenda is. Maybe you just have no idea about poker and/or poker stats. My agenda is to make sure players are warned about staying away from shady poker rooms. That's it. I'm obviously not making any of this stuff up. I can and have proven everything I've accused them of beyond virtually anybody's doubt but yours.

FWIW, 2+2 (where pokeraddict is a mod) is absolutely exploding over this. Absolute has done a ton of very shady marketing and security things in the past (stealing entire player account balances with little to no explanation, the spamming the pokeraddict brought up, obvious forum shilling that has been ip-linked to absolute management, etc).

Pokeraddict has raised some extremely legitimate concerns, and regardless of what he's wrote in the past, he's not at all manipulating what's been shown. The evidence in 2+2 threads has been pretty steadily growing for 3-4 days now, especially since they moved it back from the mod forum to the public forum.

[GaryWatson]

Originally Posted by lots0

So you know for a fact and can prove that Absolute Poker took no action whatsoever immediately on becoming aware of the accusations and having been provided the hand histories involved?

You can prove that AP did not start the investigation process or take any other action at all on becoming aware of these accusations?

Cool lets see your proof of this so called "fact".

Maybe it would be better to say that you BELIEVE AP took no action...

The advanced detection system picks it up immediately. For a $1 tourney player the account may be blocked after a few days just to make sure there is a case. For a high stakes player it take approx 3 years, 2 days and 4 hours to notice, then a few days of posting from players the site doesnt want to lose, then a few hundred more before posting a statement that everything is fine and there has been no fraudulent activity on the accounts in question. Everything else is laughed away as rumor.

The hand histories are as good as proof as you can get. AP will not or cannot provide proof that there was no cheating involved. Now it would be in their best interests to come out with the facts if they are innocent.

Dont bother with the proof argument, it holds no water.

In law it comes down to reasonable doubt. Now with several reputable professional poker players putting their reputations on the line and offering very valid points, its down to the defense (AP) to do also. They have done nothing other than to send a few paid deflectors.

[lots0]

Dont bother with the proof argument, it holds no water.

Ya asking for proof, is a bad way to solve a problem like this, lets stick with innuendo and false accusations.

Actually an account involved in this disaster was dumping tens of thousands of dollars days after the accusations were flying and who knows how many people emailing hh's to AP. It's safe to say they took no action.

First is there no other possible explanation of this players actions, like maybe he/she was just stupid, drunk or drugged up or maybe this person got so freaked out by being accused of cheating that they went on tilt to the max.

Next, So your sure no one at AP was investigating? They just ignored everything huh... wells thats crappy of them, but your really sure they did nothing, absolutely nothing...

Maybe the folks at AP wanted to know what was going on before they took any action or maybe they looked at it and saw nothing or maybe they looked and saw something but ignored it... But they took action of some kind...

You don't have any idea of what Absolute Poker did or did not do, but your willing to damn them one way or the other aren't you...

Wheres the PROOF?

[I Like Pie]

To the non-believes, what is "proof" to you? Do you have to see video evidence of this/these guy(s) playing seeing the holecards? Because that's what it sounds like you would like to see.

Any reasonable person with any knowledge of poker that has read those 2+2 threads would believe that there was cheating. No player could play like that. A guy cold-capped pre-flop in a hand then proceed to fold to ONE bet after a 225 flop when it just happened to be a hand where his opponent flopped a full house? Unreal. Just one of the many pieces of evidence.

[lots0]

They have done nothing other than to send a few paid deflectors.

Now this is starting to piss me off.

You can't provide any proof to back up what you say, so you lay more innuendo down about me.

For the record - AP is not paying me to be here and NO ONE tells me what to say. I don't need anyones money that bad.

Just what is your concern here? Aren't you getting money from, playing at and endorsing AP's competitors? Doesn't 2+2 advertise "other" Poker Rooms that are AP competitors... So are you being paid by one of these poker rooms to trash AP? I mean you don't play at AP, your always trashing them, true or not. So how do we know your not getting paid to trash AP, you sure seem dedicated to it, almost like your getting paid for it...

If I thought for a second AP was in fact doing what you claim I would be the first to black list them.

But so far I have not seen one single thing that leads me to believe that your accusations of a "super user" account are true.

what is "proof" to you?

proof = the act of validating; finding or testing the truth of something.

[I Like Pie]

I didn't ask what is the definition of proof, what, in this case, would you consider proof that players are cheating and can see holecards? Such as, videotapes of the act, statistics, whatever.

[lots0]

@I Like Pie
Are you a security expert?

Do you or anyone posting at 2+2 have any formal training in detecting poker cheats?

How many poker hand histories (before this) have you analyzed looking for fraud or cheats?

Did you or anyone ask for an independent audit by a security expert of the hands involved? (independent being the key word here)

When I hear from an independent security expert that has analyzed all the histories involved, I will make my mind up, till then or new evidence is presented AP gets the benefit of the doubt as far as I am concerned.

[pokeraddict]

Did you or anyone ask for an independent audit by a security expert of the hands involved? (independent being the key word here)

Yes, this has been requested over and over actually. AP's credibility is so shot they will really need a 3rd party to analyze this. AP's security department has already shown themselves to be incompetent in this situation. I guess many of us have finally found something to agree with you on. Somebody other then AP needs to be finding out how this happened and to what extent AP or their insiders might be involved (if any).

[I Like Pie]

Originally Posted by lots0

@I Like Pie
Are you a security expert?

Do you or anyone posting at 2+2 have any formal training in detecting poker cheats?

How many poker hand histories (before this) have you analyzed looking for fraud or cheats?

Did you or anyone ask for an independent audit by a security expert of the hands involved? (independent being the key word here)

When I hear from an independent security expert that has analyzed all the histories involved, I will make my mind up, till then or new evidence is presented AP gets the benefit of the doubt as far as I am concerned.

wow, now I don't even think you're being serious and just posting for "shock value"
you're just being silly