Absolute Poker is absolutely rigged. (New evidence, near certain proof its rigged).

[jetset]

Here's a random thought....does anyone think that the Kahnawakes might use their US$500 000 windfall from this affair to revamp and energise a more player-sensitive complaints system????

[Keyser]

I have read the GA report, which took me all of 2 minutes.

This is what I learned:
AP had employees who deleted records which hindered their "investigation".

What I didn't learn:
What exactly the breach was
When did it start
How did it happen
How long did it go on for
How widespread was it
How much money was stolen
Who was reponsible and who was involved (And no, listing of a few account names don't count)
Who in AP knew what was going on
Who in AP should have known about it but didnt
A detailed account of when AP learned of what was going on and how they reacted to it
What was done to the people that were involved, and what future actions might be taken
What actions will be taken to prevent such an occurrence from repeating itself

Honestly, what was the point? At least pretend that you care!

If you want to see what a similar investigation should look like, see the Thornburgh report on the Dan Rather CBS fake memos scandal (Yes, I read the whole thing, despite the fact that it was slightly longer than the GA report :-)

[KellyBlend]

Imho it is also important to understand that an auditor ordinarily does only a lot of normative-actual value comparisons, fixes certain random checks and checks the results of remarkable phenomena in more detail. He goes forward in essential things differently than a detective who assumes criminal energy by a much higher extent. And this is also the reason why in most audit reports you find a caveat like for example, "beyond this, it was not our task to find further dulose actions". To be honest, this case should release under criminal aspects further inquiries by Canadian detectives. I do not wish this Absolute Poker, but this company would have earned such an examination. And perhaps such an investigation would be in best interest of Joe Norton or Absolute Poker as a corporate identity to clean the mess. We all know that we have already a similar case on ub.

[GaryWatson]

1. That only suitable persons and entities are permitted to operate within Kahnawake;
2. That the games offered are fair to the player; and
3. That winners are paid.
4. That cheats are protected.
5. That the general public are idiots.

[NASHVEGAS]

1. That only suitable persons and entities are permitted to operate within Kahnawake;
2. That the games offered are fair to the player; and
3. That winners are paid.
4. That cheats are protected.
5. That the general public are idiots.

Standard operating procedure seems to me (do not single Kahnawake out but they will prolly win the MVP for 2007)......Btw, you left out #6 but your point is spot on regardless!

[mussy]

I'm not sure whether this should have a thread all of its own, but doubts are resurfacing over UB [owned, of course, by the people who own AP]. Some may recall that I posted a PocketFives piece by gank some weeks back, but had to backtrack because it became unclear how reliable it was.

Now there is a new thread on PocketFives, and one on 2+2. They revolve mainly around somebody called NioNio, who took a lot of money from highstakes players at UB, only to disappear apparently within days of the Absolute scandal breaking in full. He didn't just stop playing, the account was closed. It might be the employee's son mentioned in the gank piece, although it might be something else entirely. Other possibly suspicious accounts are being named, too.

None of the HH have so far looked terribly suspicious, but the win rate is extraordinary, apparently, and the sudden disappearance clearly looks odd, especially the timing of it.

Phil Hellmuth (who is associated with UB) has been quoted from chat sessions as saying that there is nothing to it, that NioNio is actually a well-known player. A lot of reputable posters view NioNio as suspicious, though.


EDIT: I should have said that some parts of gank's piece have been disputed, and I still don't know how reliable it is.

[SeattleSinner]

What really got to me was the line in the report on the first page second paragraph. "As a result of received complaints, the Commission initiated an investigation into AP's operations." This is totally untrue. Kahnawake was called in my AP themselves when they finally admitted the cheating. This is also laughable considering any complaint I have ever made to Kahnawake would be and has been ignored.

Unfortunately I think this just demonstrates the further need for a reputable body like the U.S. government to step into the online gaming world to regulate. If this does not happen innocent unsuspecting consumers will continue to be cheated in a known or unknown fashion.

[GaryWatson]

Unfortunately I think this just demonstrates the further need for a reputable body like the U.S. government to step into the online gaming world to regulate. If this does not happen innocent unsuspecting consumers will continue to be cheated in a known or unknown fashion.

I wouldnt want the US government in to regulate anything. They have little respect for international laws & this is an international issue. i think that would be a step in the wrong direction.

[KellyBlend]

Why not? The U.S. have already other international treaties with some Mohawks. The Mohawks have a certain right to do business like other countries, but they have to accept also international law, common business practices and ethics; and they have to improve their online gambling regulations (not only on paper - but in practise). I think they would be very interested to agree upon a gambling treaty with the U.S., even if they have to comply with severe additional requirements. We in Europe wait on something like that.

However, I see the problem more with the U.S. than with the Mohawks. The U.S. have more or less the same problem than we in Germany because the legalization of gambling falls under the heading of states’ rights as guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution and not under U.S. federal law. And the states want to collect taxes and to protect their own gambling business. Each state has other regulations or considerations. Therefore, Barney Frank’s Proposal was imho a joke which helped him to get some House votes. This is my evaluation of the U.S. scenery - from the far distance.

Online Poker is now banned in Germany. All German States signed a new common law. However, more or less the majority of German players still plays online poker. We wait and see what will happen in the near future.

According to my view the best way would be the UK approach. And I cannot understand why U.S. players are not allowed to play on a poker site with a proper EU-license. I think this will be a major discussion in the near future, too.

[GaryWatson]

I think any green light for the US would spell bad news for anyone outside the US. I think to allow a country like the US to have full regulatory powers would be a bad move

http://www.pokerpages.com/poker-news...case-29626.htm

I consider the UIGEA more of a ploy to steal control. I consider the UK as a more stable option & thats not because I am based in the UK. Ideally it should be an iinternational thing. Laws vary from country to country.

Our biggest issues.....

Dishonest sites.
Sites held accountable to no-one but themselves.
False & misleading terms.
Full public disclosure of ownership

I think sites should be run like banks & held accountable as such. Each participating country should have a rep to ensure their own laws are covered & a voting system in place for universal issues. Kahnawake to be scrapped for being a shell of a company. Bring in true regulators or keep it as it is, the ones in place are nothing more that a licence to print money. they are actually worse than that because they lead players into a false sense of security.