Major Absolute Poker Issue

[SeattleSinner]

I was just reading in the 2+2 forums that many players who play graycat, steamroller, and doubledrag on Absolute Poker have been noticing some weird activity which may even involve seeing opponents cards. Here is a link to the thread which you may want to check out:http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...0&fpart=1&vc=1

[pokeraddict]

Thanks for the link. I've never trusted the high limits there, never could put a finger on why. I wonder if this is why Calvinhobbes got raped so bad after the BBJ win. FWIW I have Steamroller as a massive loser in my PT although it is at much lower limits.

[The Ronin]

If the allegations are true, this could set the poker industry back 10 yrs.

It appears to be some rich folks playing loose, and some well seasoned pros, getting pissed because they are losing, when in their minds they should be getting rich from the high stakes donkeys. You can data mine almost any poker player, and come up with scenarios exhibiting peculiar activity. And if that peculiar activity results in an amazing win, or perfectly timed fold, well you could interpret the action as cheating, or worse I.E. a hack able to see your hole cards.

You can't have it both ways. You can't jump on a jaded newbie who posts that all poker rooms are "rigged" and assure him he is just a donkey, the poker rooms are safe. Then buy into the "pros" who play $150-$300 Limit, when they say it is rigged, and the opponents can see their hole cards.

I read the entire thread at 2+2, and am not convinced that the players can see the hole cards. Possibly could be the same person, playing 2 seats. Possibly.

Just my opinion of course

[pokeraddict]

The obvious HU chip dumping is the biggest concern. It would lead one to believe there was a team or fraudulant money on the site. I'm not convinced either, especially since one of the players mentioned is a massive loser in my PT database. I always felt there were some odd things in their higher stakes games though but not to the extreme being discussed.

[pokeraddict]

I have seen damning evidence that convinces me AP has been using house players or have rogue software developers that have left a back door to exploit. I strongly advise all to run from AP as fast as you can. This evidence has been slowly coming public all day.

[GaryWatson]

I have one session that was impossible to explain, lottery odds dont go that far.

I have tracked a crazy winning tourney player, who cleaned up for a week only to find out he wasnt registered.

Both cases at the same site, a reputable site. I was banned for sending in hand records to be checked.

In general it is fine, I have sat next to colluders & have generally spotted them, this is a totally different thing & this thing can only come from inhouse.

[GaryWatson]

The biggest worry for any live player is that on the internet, someone, somwhere can see your hole cards. Hell I advertise sites. Its crushing if it is true with a big site.

I did an investigation over the hole card thing a while back

http://pokeranon.com/seeing-tables-hole-cards.html

Now the only way this could happen if it is inhouse or someone screwing with his group of high stakes friends PC's

[pokeraddict]

The orignal thread has been locked into the mod forum while 2+2 decided what to do. It has mind boggling evidence that will come out shortly such as the players involved never called on the river, they either folded or raised. They also had impossible W$@SD stats. Here is a link to another thread at 2+2 that has popped up from a different set of mods that felt the need to make this public and keep it public.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...0&fpart=1&vc=1

[GaryWatson]

Iv gotta say a lotta the hands are above my head, as in loose. But a lot seemed a little too clear. Hearing Shneids talking (was he not the youngest ever aussie millions winner?) he was very too the point on a few things & they made sense.

What I get from the old thread is that someone has done something but they never waited for a real experienced player to cover their tracks

[pokeraddict]

This has been getting talked about a little in "Poker Complaints" here but IMO this is far more serious and needed attention since I'm sure most or at least many here don't read that forum.

At 2+2 there is a lengthy thread discussing how there are obvious player cheats playing the highest stakes at AP.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...page=0&fpart=1

Many believe these cheats are Absolute Poker insiders. At the very least the cheating has been going on either undetected or endorsed by AP. The estimates of the money stolen by the cheats run anywhere from $300,000-$700,000.

This is a very serious issue. This is not an "Online poker is rigged" thread. This thread is serious. People have been caught obviously cheating and are either AP employees or AP's security is so bad it took players to bring proof public because AP ignored the many emails about the players. There is ample prof in the above thread that there is cheating.

The accusations are that these players can see all player's hole cards. The many hand histories collected show the cheats have an infinite or almost infinite aggression factor, especially on the river. This means they never or almost never call or check on the river, they either bet, fold or raise. This is the most signifigant piece of evidence. Since there are no more cards to draw for at the river the player that can see hole cards would know whether he can win or not and whether he can knock off the other player on an overbet bluff. It is also important to mention that the reason the AF might not be infinite in some player's Poker Tracker's is because if a player pushed all in then the cheat could only call.

The cheats have never lost a river bet either. They also flop almost every hand unless a big pocket pair raises big preflop. Hand after hand that has been compiled shows that the cheats almost never put money in from behind and almost never called anything. They would either bet, raise or fold.

A few devil advocate's state this player could be on a super hot run. The problem is that the stats are simply impossible. On top of that these players have been seen doing some shady things in heads up games among themselves.

Read the thread for yourself and form your own opinion. If you are not familiar with Poker Tracker and poker terms you may get lost in the talk. This is why I tried to explain some of it here.

I've been very hard on Absolute Poker this year. They have been very dishonest this year with players and affiliates alike. They have also been on a sick spam campaign. Before this incident Absolute Poker and Ultimate Bet (AP owns them) have destroyed their reputation in the industry. That is part of what makes them being involved so much more believable.

This story broke midweek and to this point Absolute Poker has ignored the endless emails from players asking for comments. Also AP has spammed 2+2 endlessly this year but to this point has not bothered to reply in the thread to at least try to save some face here.

Although it is obvious to virtually everybody these players were cheats the question remains how involved Absolute Poker is. Were the players employees/management or is the security at AP so bad they could not catch players stealing hundreds of thousands of dollars over the course of months, even when players constantly notified them something was wrong? Either way this could destroy Absolute Poker. It is likely to be covered by some if not all poker print media.

With my very negative feelings towards Absolue Poker over their past dishonesty I have tried to keep my opinion out of the above but I will say that I agree with the many players that feel AP is in on this. They have been so dishonest this year it is hard to think they would not do such a thing, especially since they have ignored player emails about it. Even if it is a security breach shame on them for letting it go on for so long. They have tarnished the reputation of the entire industry and maybe destroyed their business.