Major Absolute Poker Issue

[pokeraddict]

I posted in that thread asking for headers and we'll see what happens. I wonder if/when they get posted if it will be "The headers are forged". The proof lies in whether the hh's are correct and only people involved in the hands and AP can vouch for that.

I know this is Sunday and this broke on a Saturday night but this is so damaging I think any other poker room would have been all over this to dispute it or at least be involved. What is left of their rep depends on it. Where are they?

[Snowman]

Well, developments have certainly moved rapidly over the past week, and not in a direction that shows AP in a good light. In my previous post I noted it was unlikely that AP were directly involved but I must say I'm now begining to change my mind. One thing that can now be stated unequivocally is that AP have lied; moreover they have lied in a manner that povides a platform for litigation. Clearly at least one MTT has been tainted and therefore every player in it (regardless of their position against the corrupt player) must surely have legal redress to at least recieve compensation for entrance fees, moreover, there would appear to be a strong case for punitive damages as well. I would go further and suggest this is an opportunity for a class action suit.
If AP still maintain their integrity and innocence then it would be an ideal opportunity and vehicle for them to clear their names and gain worldwide publicity in their favour. If they were incompetent or complicit then they go bankrupt. It's that simple.

[lots0]

I posted in that thread asking for headers...

Thanks.

Most of the time it is easy to spot forged/spoofed headers.

The proof lies in whether the hh's are correct and only people involved in the hands and AP can vouch for that.

I completely agree. Matching the email "HH's" with their personal "HH's" will be all the proof I need, as long as I can see it myself and not just read someone else telling me it's proof...

What was the date, number and name of AP Tournament the email record was from?
I couldn't seem to find that information anywhere.

I think the date and name of the Tourney is something your friends should make a little more visible, so dummies like me have a place to start looking for Proof, you know asking folks, "did you play in this Tourney... Would you care to compare HH's???"


I hope we start seeing some of those folks post here or one of the other forums this next week.

I would also really really like to see that email myself.

...an opportunity for a class action suit.

LOL you gotta be kidding me... If your so fired up about it, why not sue AP yourself, why share all that money...

[pokeraddict]

The MTT was on 9/12/07.

http://www.bluffmagazine.com/thepoke...asp?tid=423139

It says 21:00 and I assume that is ET. The tourney ID # is 1883389.

[Adanthar]

I have 7 different emails in my inbox from different people who played with the cheaters and a copy of the Excel file. They are the same HH.

Sample hand from an email:

Stage #896653262 Tourney ID 1883389 Holdem Multi Normal Tournament No Limit $50
- 2007-09-12 21:48:03.007 (ET) [ 2007-09-12 21:48:03 ]
Table: 13 (Real Money) Seat #7 is the dealer
Seat 8 - KOOLKEITH13 ($7345 in chips)
Seat 9 - SCARFACE_79 ($10002.50 in chips)
Seat 1 - BIGREDAK86 ($4966 in chips)
Seat 2 - JOSIAHW ($7057 in chips)
Seat 3 - POTRIPPER ($29722 in chips)
Seat 5 - POKERME420 ($10990 in chips)
Seat 4 - POTR0AST ($12173 in chips)
Seat 7 - DZ00NUTS ($7674.50 in chips)
KOOLKEITH13 - Posts small blind $25
SCARFACE_79 - Posts big blind $50
*** POCKET CARDS ***
Dealt to SCARFACE_79 [2c As]
BIGREDAK86 - Folds
JOSIAHW - Folds
POTRIPPER - Raises $150 to $150
POKERME420 - Folds
POTR0AST - Folds
DZ00NUTS - Calls $150
KOOLKEITH13 - Folds
SCARFACE_79 - Folds
*** FLOP *** [3h 6c Qd]
POTRIPPER - Bets $150
DZ00NUTS - Folds
POTRIPPER - returned ($150) : not called
*** SHOW DOWN ***
POTRIPPER - Does not show
POTRIPPER Collects $375 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total Pot($375)
Board [3h 6c Qd]
Seat 1: BIGREDAK86 Folded on the POCKET CARDS
Seat 2: JOSIAHW Folded on the POCKET CARDS
Seat 3: POTRIPPER collected Total ($375) HI$375) [Does not show]
Seat 4: POTR0AST Folded on the POCKET CARDS
Seat 5: POKERME420 Folded on the POCKET CARDS
Seat 7: DZ00NUTS (dealer) Folded on the FLOP
Seat 8: KOOLKEITH13 (small blind) Folded on the POCKET CARDS
Seat 9: SCARFACE_79 (big blind) Folded on the POCKET CARDS
################################################## #########################################

The flop, turn, etc. action is out of order because Absolute sent it out that way.

The same hand in the Excel file:

13 896653262 9/12/2007 21:48 0 7345 7345 START Seat 8 - KOOLKEITH13 ($7345 in chips)
13 896653262 9/12/2007 21:48 0 10002.5 10002.5 START Seat 9 - SCARFACE_79 ($10002.50 in chips)
13 896653262 9/12/2007 21:48 0 4966 4966 START Seat 1 - BIGREDAK86 ($4966 in chips)
13 896653262 9/12/2007 21:48 0 7057 7057 START Seat 2 - JOSIAHW ($7057 in chips)
13 896653262 9/12/2007 21:48 0 29722 29722 START Seat 3 - POTRIPPER ($29722 in chips)
13 896653262 9/12/2007 21:48 0 10990 10990 START Seat 5 - POKERME420 ($10990 in chips)
13 896653262 9/12/2007 21:48 0 12173 12173 START Seat 4 - POTR0AST ($12173 in chips)
13 896653262 9/12/2007 21:48 0 7674.5 7674.5 START Seat 7 - DZ00NUTS ($7674.50 in chips)
13 896653262 9/12/2007 21:48 -25 7345 7320 G-BET KOOLKEITH13 - Posts small blind $25
13 896653262 9/12/2007 21:48 -50 10002.5 9952.5 G-BET SCARFACE_79 - Posts big blind $50
*** SHOW DOWN ***
13 896653262 9/12/2007 21:48 0 0 0 TABLE_INFO *** POCKET CARDS ***
13 896653262 9/12/2007 21:48 0 4966 4966 TABLE_USER Dealt to BIGREDAK86 [7h 4d]
13 896653262 9/12/2007 21:48 0 29722 29722 TABLE_USER Dealt to POTRIPPER [Kd Ad]
13 896653262 9/12/2007 21:48 0 7057 7057 TABLE_USER Dealt to JOSIAHW [2d Qs]
13 896653262 9/12/2007 21:48 0 12173 12173 TABLE_USER Dealt to POTR0AST [Ac 5s]
13 896653262 9/12/2007 21:48 0 10990 10990 TABLE_USER Dealt to POKERME420 [6s 2s]
13 896653262 9/12/2007 21:48 0 7674.5 7674.5 TABLE_USER Dealt to DZ00NUTS [7c 8h]
13 896653262 9/12/2007 21:48 0 7320 7320 TABLE_USER Dealt to KOOLKEITH13 [Qc 4s]
13 896653262 9/12/2007 21:48 0 9952.5 9952.5 TABLE_USER Dealt to SCARFACE_79 [2c As]
13 896653262 9/12/2007 21:48 0 4966 4966 TABLE_INFO BIGREDAK86 - Folds
13 896653262 9/12/2007 21:49 0 29572 29572 TABLE_INFO POTRIPPER - Does not show
13 896653262 9/12/2007 21:48 -150 29722 29572 G-BET POTRIPPER - Raises $150 to $150
13 896653262 9/12/2007 21:48 0 0 0 TABLE_INFO Stage #896653262 Tourney ID 1883389 Holdem Multi Normal Tournament No Limit $50 - 2007-09-12 21:48:03.007 (ET)
13 896653262 9/12/2007 21:48 0 0 0 TABLE_INFO Table: 13 (Real Money) Seat #7 is the dealer
13 896653262 9/12/2007 21:48 0 10990 10990 TABLE_INFO POKERME420 - Folds
13 896653262 9/12/2007 21:48 0 12173 12173 TABLE_INFO POTR0AST - Folds
13 896653262 9/12/2007 21:48 -150 7674.5 7524.5 G-BET DZ00NUTS - Calls $150
13 896653262 9/12/2007 21:48 -150 29572 29422 G-BET POTRIPPER - Bets $150
13 896653262 9/12/2007 21:49 0 7524.5 7524.5 TABLE_INFO DZ00NUTS - Folds
13 896653262 9/12/2007 21:49 150 29422 29572 G-PAYOUT POTRIPPER - returned ($150) : not called
13 896653262 9/12/2007 21:49 0 0 0 TABLE_INFO *** SHOW DOWN ***
13 896653262 9/12/2007 21:49 0 0 0 TABLE_INFO POTRIPPER Collects $375 from main pot
13 896653262 9/12/2007 21:49 0 0 0 TABLE_INFO *** SUMMARY ***
13 896653262 9/12/2007 21:49 0 0 0 TABLE_INFO Total Pot($375)
13 896653262 9/12/2007 21:49 0 0 0 TABLE_INFO Board [3h 6c Qd]
13 896653262 9/12/2007 21:49 0 0 0 TABLE_INFO Seat 1: BIGREDAK86 Folded on the POCKET CARDS
13 896653262 9/12/2007 21:49 0 0 0 TABLE_INFO Seat 2: JOSIAHW Folded on the POCKET CARDS
13 896653262 9/12/2007 21:49 375 29572 29947 G-PAYOUT Seat 3: POTRIPPER collected Total ($375) HI$375) [Does not show]
13 896653262 9/12/2007 21:49 0 0 0 TABLE_INFO Seat 4: POTR0AST Folded on the POCKET CARDS
13 896653262 9/12/2007 21:49 0 0 0 TABLE_INFO Seat 5: POKERME420 Folded on the POCKET CARDS
13 896653262 9/12/2007 21:49 0 0 0 TABLE_INFO Seat 7: DZ00NUTS (dealer) Folded on the FLOP
13 896653262 9/12/2007 21:49 0 0 0 TABLE_INFO Seat 8: KOOLKEITH13 (small blind) Folded on the POCKET CARDS
13 896653262 9/12/2007 21:49 0 0 0 TABLE_INFO Seat 9: SCARFACE_79 (big blind) Folded on the POCKET CARDS

Again, it's messed up because Absolute sent it out that way (but it's slightly more readable in Excel format). Nonetheless, it's obviously the same hand, with included hole cards. The pocketfives.com thread has posts from a number of people who played in the tourney, and needless to say, it's accurate.

The file also includes IP addresses and emails (yes, AP records those), so it's not going to be publicly released. However, anyone who is vouched for by trustworthy sources can see it.

[pokeraddict]

Here is the most important part of the thread at 2+2 where the data collector for thepokerdb figures out ip addresses. If this pans out it almost certainly shows AP was involved.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&fpart=11&vc=1

Scroll down to this post "#12499725 - 10/14/07 05:22 PM " made by N 82 50 24. Here is the info after the tech stuff.

Then in the IP range starting with 200, there are two guys with identical IPs. snagglepuss alerted me to these two guys earlier. But here's the evidence on one of the guys:

1. This guy "enters" table 13 at 2007-09-12 21:02:14, which is 2 minutes and 14 seconds after the tourney started.
2. Table 13 is the table which POTRIPPER was playing on
3. He never leaves the table, which means he was observing the table until at least 11:20 PM EST (at least, that's how I understand this)
4. His IP address is based in Costa Rica.
5. This is the most damning. He is user id 363 at AP. That means he was created in the system very very early on. Most of these user ids are in the 6 or 7 figures.

I think this tells me that there was some sort of inside job going on.

This is very interesting stuff. Those converting seem to think the ip's are related to tables opening/closing and not players.

[Adanthar]

PA just beat me to that post, oops

[pokeraddict]

This is the most damning. He is user id 363 at AP. That means he was created in the system very very early on. Most of these user ids are in the 6 or 7 figures.

To put this onto perspective my oldest prop account is user is in the 1600's and I was easily one of the first few props when the place was a total ghosttown.

[Pinababy69]

The file also includes IP addresses and emails (yes, AP records those), so it's not going to be publicly released. However, anyone who is vouched for by trustworthy sources can see it.

Would you let Bryan have a look at it Adanthar? Then, if he's in agreement, he can post his opinion here, and the CM forum members can decide for themselves?

I'm fine with what you guys have posted, here and at 2+2. I just thought that it may put some of the members here minds at rest, if Bryan's opinion concurred with yours. Just a thought.

[Adanthar]

Would you let Bryan have a look at it Adanthar? Then, if he's in agreement, he can post his opinion here, and the CM forum members can decide for themselves?

I'm fine with what you guys have posted, here and at 2+2. I just thought that it may put some of the members here minds at rest, if Bryan's opinion concurred with yours. Just a thought.

Seriously...what's the proof threshold at this point? Is the claim that a dozen of us made up a 65536 line long Excel file with about a hundred players showing thousands of their hole cards as part of an elaborate scamming attempt? It's getting to be a bit much.

That said, I have no problem with this and if CM posts here/emails me he's welcome to the file. It's pretty tough to read and has *every* table for over 2 hours (not just table 13); you'll want to focus on only that one table.