IGT Slot RTP List

[KasinoKing]

Can you tell me why some games have RTP set to a range on the IGT paytables? For example, on Siberian Storm it shows as "92.52% - 96%"? Logically I'd guess that it is because different casinos can request different RTP settings?

Being a bit pedantic, Barcrest was actually owned until very recently by IGT. I think it was sold to Scientific Games back-end of 2011.

Talking about Siberian Storm - I saw they had it at Virgin, so decided to have another go on it...
... and lost the same amount (or more) than I did in that casino in London!
Not even a sniff of a half-decent win.
Either it's mega-high variance, or I was very unlucky, or it's crap...

Didn't know that about Barcrest - thanks for the info!

KK

[Bonkerjerks]

Good questions!

RTPs listed at a range have a couple reasons. Most of the time, it is because we have several math models of the game available that have all been approved. Casinos can choose their math model based on what they want for their customer. This is a standard on the land-based side that we also practice on the Internet. In addition, our new Monopoly Plus game coming out has a level up feature that means the more you play, the higher the RTP on the bonus game. These RTP rewards carry over between play sessions, rewarding players for return play.

Also, especially on the land-based side, some juristictions restrict RTP. Fruit machines in the UK, for example, have a horrible RTP compared to online slots.

As for RTP and volatility, I can understand the confusion. The two work hand in hand to provide the experience and both are just as important to the math of the game. At IGT, we rate our games volatility on what we call the "Chili Pepper Scale" of 1-5. Most of our games fall into the entertainment zone of 2 or 3 chilis. However, some fall into the higher risk gambler zone of 4-5 chilis.

For example, if I created a 98% RTP game with extremely low volatility (low 1 chili), many players would hate it. Sure, you it might take you double the number of spins to lose the same amount of money, but you will never see any payouts that truly give any sort of win feeling. Imagine a game where you play 100 spins, and on 98 of them you win your total bet back and nothing more. That would be a 98% RTP, but would be a horrible slot.

In addition, RTP is a theoretical value based on thousands upon thousands of spins. You, as a player, are never really going to play any single slot enough to match the RTP exactly. There will be times where you are on the RTP curve, but more often than not you will be above or below it. Just to confuse things even more, RTP is split between the base and bonus games. Bonus games, such as free spins, have no risk on the player side, so the amount a bonus awards can drastically change RTP. Balancing the reward between the base and bonus games is essential to a great slot.

Long post. Hope that helps!

[Bonkerjerks]

Talking about Siberian Storm - I saw they had it at Virgin, so decided to have another go on it...
... and lost the same amount (or more) than I did in that casino in London!
Not even a sniff of a half-decent win.
Either it's mega-high variance, or I was very unlucky, or it's crap...

Didn't know that about Barcrest - thanks for the info!

KK

Siberian Storm does have a higher volatility that most of our slots. You can have dry spells, but you can also have huge wins. It's actually one of our best performing land slots and we only launched it online recently (performance has been excellent so far).

I'm going to go with "unlucky"!

[Simmo!]

I saw the new "Level Up" version of Monopoly at ICE last week as it happens.

Just to confuse things even more, RTP is split between the base and bonus games. Bonus games, such as free spins, have no risk on the player side, so the amount a bonus awards can drastically change RTP.

Had never considered that...interesting.

Is there somewhere where the "chilli" ratings are listed or I could get hold of them? I have most pretty accurately I think - based on experience mainly - but clarification would be good.

[TheLastCylon]

RTPs listed at a range have a couple reasons. Most of the time, it is because we have several math models of the game available that have all been approved. Casinos can choose their math model based on what they want for their customer. This is a standard on the land-based side that we also practice on the Internet. In addition, our new Monopoly Plus game coming out has a level up feature that means the more you play, the higher the RTP on the bonus game. These RTP rewards carry over between play sessions, rewarding players for return play.

That's a cool dynamic. But this seems like it would only affect the player-received RTP over short periods of gameplay. Once the player “levels up,” the bonus RTP must hit a ceiling and the slot would then simply level off at a set RTP. And even though the RTP is variable, it is still important. I still want to know the return that I begin with and what the maximum possible RTP becomes when I reach my max level. If that beginning RTP is poor, I don't want to play the game.

Also, I don't mean to be a confrontational jerk, but casino's don't pick their math model based on what they want for their customers, it's based on their bottom line. They might have a spectrum of game variance, and that's certainly for the customer, but if the casino was out for the customer, all slots, regardless of variance, would have a 99% return.

In fact, I'd imagine that casinos frequently use variance as a tool to hide poor RTP's.

Also, especially on the land-based side, some juristictions restrict RTP. Fruit machines in the UK, for example, have a horrible RTP compared to online slots.

Some governments actually force casinos to have low RTP's? That's just bizarre. I would have expected laws to only exist for the opposite goal. The UK needs new lawmakers.

As for RTP and volatility, I can understand the confusion. The two work hand in hand to provide the experience and both are just as important to the math of the game. At IGT, we rate our games volatility on what we call the "Chili Pepper Scale" of 1-5. Most of our games fall into the entertainment zone of 2 or 3 chilis. However, some fall into the higher risk gambler zone of 4-5 chilis.

For example, if I created a 98% RTP game with extremely low volatility (low 1 chili), many players would hate it. Sure, you it might take you double the number of spins to lose the same amount of money, but you will never see any payouts that truly give any sort of win feeling. Imagine a game where you play 100 spins, and on 98 of them you win your total bet back and nothing more. That would be a 98% RTP, but would be a horrible slot.

I appreciate that you provide a scale, but it's still just some little pepper images. I was hoping for something quantitative, because that gives me a real baseline for interpreting slots. I could go play a few hundred games at your casino of each slot and DEVELOP a sense of the chili scale, but that is useless for comparing your product to other casinos or to some generally recognized standard for slot design.

In addition, RTP is a theoretical value based on thousands upon thousands of spins. You, as a player, are never really going to play any single slot enough to match the RTP exactly. There will be times where you are on the RTP curve, but more often than not you will be above or below it. Just to confuse things even more, RTP is split between the base and bonus games. Bonus games, such as free spins, have no risk on the player side, so the amount a bonus awards can drastically change RTP. Balancing the reward between the base and bonus games is essential to a great slot.

I recognize that it is just a theoretical number, but it is still the most important number. From the player's perspective and especially the casino's perspective. For the player, having sky-high variance would be terrible since most players would lose all of their money on their first set of spins, which means that all games would require something less than sky-high.

If I enjoy the slot, I'm going to play it a fair amount, and that means that the RTP will have a significant impact on me and anyone who enjoys that particular slot. And even though bonuses and other such things all change the RTP as I go, the “real” RTP stays the same, and that is the RTP that I work ever closer to the more I play the game.

I found a link to a post by Eliot Jacobson, who is a big-time math guy I assume, and he says what I'm trying to say.

When someone speaks of high variance slots, it is really not the key point. The key point is "what is the RTP?" Slots that return 92% or more are good slots. Slots that return 96% or more are great slots. Slots that return under 88% suck. That's the theoretical RTP built into them by the programmer, not the individual's experience.

This applies to my previous argument that RTP is what is critical, since variance can very well be a tool to hide the RTP from the customer.

My ideal world has both the RTP and the variance listed with some objective number.

[TheLastCylon]

BTW, I saw at Virgin Casino the other day that they have a list of all their slots with the RTP stated next to each one in a handy list form.

KK, could you send me the link to that. I tried to find it for a good thirty minutes. There's a lot of blind alleys at Virgin Casino's site where I always seem to end up with some big image of a toothy woman with a champagne glass.

[threescatters]

Good questions!

RTPs listed at a range have a couple reasons. Most of the time, it is because we have several math models of the game available that have all been approved.

Hi Bonkerjerks,

Many thanks for posting in this thread, you are giving some excellent replys and insight, I for one appreciate it.

I really applaud IGT for having published the RTP of their slots in the pay tables for years. It gives a feeling of honesty about the whole thing when you are playing on them and I think everyone from casual penny players to hardened slot addicts appreciates it.

However the trend you have now of publishing this "range" is a bit crap. Its publishing the RTP, without actually publishing it at all if you know what I mean! You are almost as clueless after reading it as you were before, and it removes the feeling of honesty.

Why cant you just publish the actual RTP in the pay table that that slot at that casino is set to. You are very honest about everything else so why not do that?

threescatters

[KasinoKing]

There seems to be a little bit of confusion going on here...

That's a cool dynamic. But this seems like it would only affect the player-received RTP over short periods of gameplay. Once the player “levels up,” the bonus RTP must hit a ceiling and the slot would then simply level off at a set RTP. And even though the RTP is variable, it is still important. I still want to know the return that I begin with and what the maximum possible RTP becomes when I reach my max level. If that beginning RTP is poor, I don't want to play the game.

I don't think Bonkerjerks said anywhere that the RTP is variable. In fact, it can't be as that would be a contradiction.
Where a slot has a range of RTPs, each individual casino can pick one of several options. But then that RTP is fixed.

However the trend you have now of publishing this "range" is a bit crap. Its publishing the RTP, without actually publishing it at all if you know what I mean! You are almost as clueless after reading it as you were before, and it removes the feeling of honesty.

Why cant you just publish the actual RTP in the pay table that that slot at that casino is set to. You are very honest about everything else so why not do that?

As above. If you go to the paytable on each slot at each casino you will see what RTP they have theirs set on.

KK, could you send me the link to that. I tried to find it for a good thirty minutes. There's a lot of blind alleys at Virgin Casino's site where I always seem to end up with some big image of a toothy woman with a champagne glass.

Go to:http://www.virgingames.com/casino/ca...s/online-slots
In the red bar where it says "Slots", select the "List View"

KK

[Bonkerjerks]

I don't think Bonkerjerks said anywhere that the RTP is variable. In fact, it can't be as that would be a contradiction.
Where a slot has a range of RTPs, each individual casino can pick one of several options. But then that RTP is fixed.

True, with one exception. As far as I am aware, we only have one slot that is truly RTP variable and that is the upcoming Monopoly Plus slot. The game has an RTP that is similar as many of our other slots. The "leveling up" feature raises that RTP by 1-2% for those that unlock all the features. Its meant as a reward, and no, we didn't penalize the base game to pay for it. In fact, the RTP bonus is only on the bonus board and affects the volatility (increased chances of bigger rewards), thus affects the RTP.

I'll say again that RTP doesn't ever tell the whole story. A single number doesn't give you the nuance of where that money is actually rewarded. You could have a low RTP base game, saving all the payout for a volatile bonus game that can reward a few people a lot of money. RTP and volatility go hand in hand to give players the slot ride that they are looking for. You can also design a high RTP game that is extremely efficient at taking your money for the house while only occasionally offering a big enough payment to offset that. Just because a game has a high RTP, doesn't necessarily mean that its a fun one to play.

[threescatters]

There seems to be a little bit of confusion going on here...


I don't think Bonkerjerks said anywhere that the RTP is variable. In fact, it can't be as that would be a contradiction.
Where a slot has a range of RTPs, each individual casino can pick one of several options. But then that RTP is fixed.


As above. If you go to the paytable on each slot at each casino you will see what RTP they have theirs set on.



Go to:http://www.virgingames.com/casino/ca...s/online-slots
In the red bar where it says "Slots", select the "List View"

KK

Yes I understand that the individual casino can pick the RTP and then it is set in stone. But that is what I mean by "variable". I mean variable from casino to casino.

You are wrong that if you go to the paytable on each casino you will see what RTP they have. Some list the ranges and NOT what they are set to at that casino. Go to siberian storm at kerching casino for example. This is what I am talking about, thats not listing the RTP!

And yes I realise virgin themselves state their own RTP for every slot, its great. But because it is allowed for different casinos to set different RTPs on IGT slots, you cannot take virgins listing for siberian storm as what kerching have.

This is why I am saying its pointless to list the range in the paytable at some places, and its not listing the RTP. I just assume the worst when I see a range listing and its a pretty depressing assumption.

threescatters