Questions about RTP

[bb28]

Hi all........been lurking for quite a while but decided to come out and ask a few questions. With that said, I've got a few questions for some of you that have a good grasp on RTP. (I certainly don't.)

I have this assumption about B&M RTP and correct me if I'm wrong please. Let's say that they advertise their rtp as 93%. I assume that that means that not all machines will have a 93%, some may have 88, some may have 99, but it averages out to 93%. Is that a correct assumption?

Now with online rtp's and let's use RTG as the example because it seems to be widely accepted that there are 3 different settings that each casino can go with. So let's assume that this particular casino is set at the middle which is 95%. So assuming that is true, does that mean that each game is set at 95 or does that mean that some are lower, some are higher or is it a flat 95% across the board?

Also if my above assumption is correct about different games having different rtps, can the rtp be set differently for different bet sizes?


Hope my questions are clear.

 

[LaHutti]

Your questions are quite clear, as a lot of questions have been in the past about these things. I suspect, that the answers you'll get, will be as NOT clear, as they always are, because noone, who is willing to answer here, has any clue what the real answer is.
What you'll get is guesses, because the casinos, or rather the software providers, apparently, have no interest in giving that information. Just keep that in mind

 

[4 of a kind]

As far has land based casinos in Vegas, or A.C. you could every month review the casinos monthly reports to the gaming commissions and view what the RTP actually was for each month like I posted here...https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/online-rtp-settings.45680/, or with subscriptions to certain magazines review their monthly RTP's like I posted here...https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/b-m-payouts.36710/

As far as online RTP settings go, no one knows for sure how it really works. After researching and trying to find these types of questions out, it appears there is no monthly reports being done to any online gaming commission. The best you could hope for is trusting the he said, she said, he said, dribble.

 

[bb28]

Your questions are quite clear, as a lot of questions have been in the past about these things. I suspect, that the answers you'll get, will be as NOT clear, as they always are, because noone, who is willing to answer here, has any clue what the real answer is.
What you'll get is guesses, because the casinos, or rather the software providers, apparently, have no interest in giving that information. Just keep that in mind

I had to laugh when I read your post as you are most likely correct in that there won't be any "official" word, just theories.

Too bad dogboy doesn't post anymore. His responses usually were above my head but I could grasp a bit of it.

 

[Simmo!]

So let's assume that this particular casino is set at the middle which is 95%. So assuming that is true, does that mean that each game is set at 95 or does that mean that some are lower, some are higher or is it a flat 95% across the board?

I asked one of the more reputable RTG operators ths question a couple of years back. I seem to remember (memory fades with age!) that the Real Series slots would all have the same selected RTP (93, 95 or 97% are the 3 settings I think) and in your example, that would be 95%, however the random jackpot takes up part of that. No idea how much but the WMS jackpots which are similar-ish I guess account for 2.99% so it seems reasonable to assume that RTG's aren't too far away from that.

Again, on memory, the older RTG slots (Diamond Mine, Shopping Spree etc) don't follow that pattern nor, obvioulsy, do table and video poker games. Triggers a memory of one of iNetBets' Joker Poker variants being marginally +ev actually

As an aside, the video poker RTP's in Vegas are around 25%. This week anyway

 

[bb28]

As an aside, the video poker RTP's in Vegas are around 25%. This week anyway

Ahhh the memories, I wonder if that poker machine is setting next to the slot machine that I was personally acquainted with that had an rtp of 35%.

 

[bb28]

As far has land based casinos in Vegas, or A.C. you could every month review the casinos monthly reports to the gaming commissions and view what the RTP actually was for each month like I posted here...https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/online-rtp-settings.45680/, or with subscriptions to certain magazines review their monthly RTP's like I posted here...https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/b-m-payouts.36710/

As far as online RTP settings go, no one knows for sure how it really works. After researching and trying to find these types of questions out, it appears there is no monthly reports being done to any online gaming commission. The best you could hope for is trusting the he said, she said, he said, dribble.

Thanks for the links. Maybe someday on the published stuff for online.

 

[KasinoKing]

I asked one of the more reputable RTG operators this question a couple of years back. I seem to remember (memory fades with age!) that the Real Series slots would all have the same selected RTP (93, 95 or 97% are the 3 settings I think) and in your example, that would be 95%, however the random jackpot takes up part of that. No idea how much but the WMS jackpots which are similar-ish I guess account for 2.99% so it seems reasonable to assume that RTG's aren't too far away from that.

Your memory is close, but not spot on I believe.
The official RTP settings I obtained actually show 4 different RTP possibilities: 91%, 94%, 95% and 97.5%
I have these listed out against each slot on the RTG page of my SlotBeaters site here:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

It's worth noting that not all have 3 settings, so players could only play the ones which don't have a 91% option, if they're worried about it.

I also recall DogBoy saying the progressive contribution is more more like 1.5%

it seems to be widely accepted that there are 3 different settings that each casino can go with. So let's assume that this particular casino is set at the middle which is 95%. So assuming that is true, does that mean that each game is set at 95 or does that mean that some are lower, some are higher or is it a flat 95% across the board?

LaHutti is right, no-one who knows for certain is going to come here and post this info, but from everything I've read and gleaned over the years it is my personal opinion that RTG casinos can have different slots set to different RTPs.
So some could be on 91%, while others are on 95% or even 97.5%.

A few casinos have stated that theirs are all on the middle settings - but we can't know that for sure.

KK

 

[4 of a kind]

The official RTP settings I obtained actually show 4 different RTP possibilities: 91%, 94%, 95% and 97.5%

"Official RTP settings I obtained" ?????

Where did you get this information that makes your RTP listings official? Please post whatever documents you obtained that would confirm these settings as official.

 

[DiamondGeezer]

I feel a 57 page thread about the authenticity of RTG RTP settings coming on

 

[LaHutti]

oh yeah ... but anyone who doesn't feel like reading 50+ pages, can just read post #2 ... it pretty much sums it up. lol

 

[KasinoKing]

"Official RTP settings I obtained" ?????

Where did you get this information that makes your RTP listings official? Please post whatever documents you obtained that would confirm these settings as official.

At one time all the RTG data sheets were available online for people who knew where to look...
Obviously they weren't happy about this, so removed them all about 2-ish years ago... but not before some people were able to take copies of all the data.
Here is one sheet - I have about 53 others.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

This was the original URL of the data, though like I said, they have taken them all down now
Old / Expired Link

KK

 

[4 of a kind]

removed them all about 2-ish years ago...
KK

Do you consider 2-ish years old information current?

 

[KasinoKing]

Do you consider 2-ish years old information current?

In this case, yes I do.

KK

 

[deucebag]

In this case, yes I do.

KK

Well, Dogboy said the 2 consecutive pears version of Fruit Frenzy was 91%, and the info you're basing your information on says only 95 and 97% for Fruit Frenzy. The RTG pages also said some slots had an 86% option, which you've conveniently chosen to believe was a typo and not included in your web site.

The truth is, there is nothing official or current about the payout on RTG slots, it's all a black box.

 

[Nifty29]

Well, Dogboy said the 2 consecutive pears version of Fruit Frenzy was 91%, and the info you're basing your information on says only 95 and 97% for Fruit Frenzy. The RTG pages also said some slots had an 86% option, which you've conveniently chosen to believe was a typo and not included in your web site.

The truth is, there is nothing official or current about the payout on RTG slots, it's all a black box.

If you are going to sink the boots into someone who has shared the results of their research and knowledge, you could at least provide your own (not holding my breath btw).

The funny thing is that, even if official statements were issued by RTG about all their RTPs, you and other "RTG is rigged" theorists would just say it was lies. If it were confirmed by a 3rd party firm, you would say they "paid them off". Even funnier, you use dogboy as a reference when it suits your theory, but brush it off as nonsense when it doesn't.

I don't have any "proof" myself, like backend screenshots etc or insider contacts. I only have information provided to me by people I trust, based on past experience and some common sense.

Many players who insist RTG is rigged still play there, so that tells you a lot.

 

[deucebag]

If you are going to sink the boots into someone who has shared the results of their research and knowledge, you could at least provide your own (not holding my breath btw).

The funny thing is that, even if official statements were issued by RTG about all their RTPs, you and other "RTG is rigged" theorists would just say it was lies. If it were confirmed by a 3rd party firm, you would say they "paid them off". Even funnier, you use dogboy as a reference when it suits your theory, but brush it off as nonsense when it doesn't.

When did I say RTG is rigged? When did I brush off anything Dogboy said as nonsense? You're trying to discredit me by assigning me with opinons I don't have and statements I never made.

 

[DiamondGeezer]

If you are going to sink the boots into someone who has shared the results of their research and knowledge, you could at least provide your own (not holding my breath btw).

Deucebag just did!

Many players who insist RTG is rigged still play there, so that tells you a lot.

Please note this thread is about RTP not "rigged". If you want to talk about "rigged" then best to open a new thread.

Nifty a lot of players put up with RTG simply because there is no alternative apart from not playing. To me that just tells me they enjoy gambling but are suffering from a chronic lack of choice.

 

[DiamondGeezer]

I only have information provided to me by people I trust, based on past experience and some common sense.

Nifty what do you have specifically please? My knowledge of RTG is very sketchy. All I know is that Clubworld told Bryan their slots are set to 95% so I only play there mainly. I do play at Jackpot Capital a bit does anyone know what their position is? They seem to be well run at least.

What's the situation at Sloto I wonder? Seems a bit cheeky to hit the rep with this since they have only just opened up.

If you have anything more it would be appreciated.

 

[4 of a kind]

I believe KK's or any other affiliate web site exhibiting RTG's RTP's as fact is misleading, and at best nothing more then an assumption. Saying two year old RTP information is current in the gaming world exposes your only intentions, which is obviously only to get ill-advised newbies to sign on.

Land based casinos have been making many changes over the last couple of years trying to fight off dire financial times. The land based gaming commisions have authorized many changes during this time to enhance the house edge trying to slow down the bleeding.

Online gaming is not immune to these conditions, and in fact should be suffering more then land based casinos when you consider all the negative headlines they managed to compile during the last couple of years.

 

[bb28]

I believe KK's or any other affiliate web site exhibiting RTG's RTP's as fact is misleading, and at best nothing more then an assumption. Saying two year old RTP information is current in the gaming world exposes your only intentions, which is obviously only to get ill-advised newbies to sign on.

Ahhhh, that was so not nice to say that about KK and I don't believe it's true.

Land based casinos have been making many changes over the last couple of years trying to fight off dire financial times. The land based gaming commisions have authorized many changes during this time to enhance the house edge trying to slow down the bleeding.

The above certainly and probably is true.

Online gaming is not immune to these conditions, and in fact should be suffering more then land based casinos when you consider all the negative headlines they managed to compile during the last couple of years.

The above about online gaming could certainly be true also but has nothing to do with the assertion made about KK. I'm certainly not a mod but it would be nice if we could leave the personal stuff out.

 

[KasinoKing]

I believe KK's or any other affiliate web site exhibiting RTG's RTP's as fact is misleading, and at best nothing more then an assumption. Saying two year old RTP information is current in the gaming world exposes your only intentions, which is obviously only to get ill-advised newbies to sign on.

The whole point of all my websites is to give newbies as much information as possible.
Just look at some other affiliate portals, and all most of them say is "XYZ casino will give you a 200% bonus up to $500", but no details about the wagering requirements or other things to watch out for.

All the information I provide is correct and accurate to the best of my knowledge and ability. Of course there are some things which I can't be 100% certain about, and some things do change which I am not aware of, but your suggestion that I would deliberately try to mislead anyone is rather disrespectful IMO.

It is my personal opinion that those RTG RTPs were accurate when published and that I can see no logical reason or any evidence that they have been changed since. If you have proof that they have been changed, then please bring it to the table and I will amend my website accordingly.

Well, DogBoy said the 2 consecutive pears version of Fruit Frenzy was 91%, and the info you're basing your information on says only 95 and 97% for Fruit Frenzy. The RTG pages also said some slots had an 86% option, which you've conveniently chosen to believe was a typo and not included in your web site.

Can you show me where DogBoy confirmed Fruit Frenzy has a 91% setting please?

There was just one slot (Field of Green) on which the data sheet said that the RTPs were 86%, 91% & 94%, but DogBoy said that NO slots went below 91%, so I omitted the 86% setting from my site. So yes, I did chose to believe it was a typo, but not conveniently on purpose!

KK

 

[deucebag]

All the information I provide is correct and accurate to the best of my knowledge and ability.

I disagree.

Can you show me where DogBoy confirmed Fruit Frenzy has a 91% setting please?

There was just one slot (Field of Green) on which the data sheet said that the RTPs were 86%, 91% & 94%, but DogBoy said that NO slots went below 91%, so I omitted the 86% setting from my site. So yes, I did chose to believe it was a typo, but not conveniently on purpose!

Regarding Fruit Frenzy:
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/rtg-software-backend-issues-rtp-etc.41825/

DogBoy's company didn't make Field of Green and several other slots which have 86-91-94% settings, so he has no knowledge of those slots. I'm sure you could get a confirmation of that via PM. It's true that the RTG web pages only showed Field of Green with 86%, but I have a source (which unfortunately I can't reveal) that has told me it applies to a handful of others as well.

The RTP settings you list on your website should be taken with a big grain of salt. It's not official information, it's old information, and it's not completely accurate.

 

[4 of a kind]

I'm certainly not a mod but it would be nice if we could leave the personal stuff out.

Why would you consider my comments as personal? Since KK is making money off the backs of newbies I feel it's only fair he advertises fact. Because he makes comments like: "All the information I provide is correct and accurate to the best of my knowledge and ability" doesn't mean he could advertise known bullshit.

Of course there are some things which I can't be 100% certain about, and some things do change which I am not aware of, but your suggestion that I would deliberately try to mislead anyone is rather disrespectful IMO.

It is my personal opinion that those RTG RTPs were accurate when published and that I can see no logical reason or any evidence that they have been changed since. If you have proof that they have been changed, then please bring it to the table and I will amend my website accordingly.

RTG's RTP'S cannot be confirmed by fact one way or the other. This well guarded secret is old news and since your advertising them as fact; shouldn't you be the one that needs to prove what they presently are? Assuming they haven't changed in over two years should be considered false advertising. Any gaming veteran (like myself) could only view your RTP postings similar to dangling a carrot on a string in front of a jackass.

An affiliate dangling ridicules bonuses in front of newbies is no different then dangling bullshit RTP's.

 

[jod5413]

Deucebag just did!

Nifty a lot of players put up with RTG simply because there is no alternative apart from not playing. To me that just tells me they enjoy gambling but are suffering from a chronic lack of choice.

How can anyone "enjoy gambling" if they are playing at a site they think cheats? Even gamblers have some common sense and intelligence, I know I do.

And 4oak, you were very disrespectful toward KK. As usual you get so "het up" you lose site of the point people are simply trying to make, which in this case was information KK believes in and was trying to share. To also insinuate that he does not care about his players is quite unfair and uncalled for.

And jumping all over Nifty for speaking his mind does the posters no credit. Although a bit abrupt, Nifty is more often than not "spot on" and has many years and a lot of experience about on line gambling. I certainly am not so quick to dismiss what he says.