Casino asks for your photo holding your passport - will you be ok with that?

[SlotMonster]

Hi all,

I was thinking about how to speed up players verification process, or at least bring a bit more trust in "relationships" between casino and player at the very beginning.

So, I think if players would send photos holding their IDs (see the picture attached) - it would be much better than if they sent just copies of requested documents.

Any thoughts?

Thanks!

 

[KasinoKing]

Nope - I don't want to do that.
Personally I don't understand why casinos have to ask for ID at all in most circumstances.

If a player requests a withdrawal to the same method he deposited with it should not be necessary.
Only in cases where a player wins a very large amount, wants to withdraw by a different method, or the casino has sufficient grounds to suspect some type of fraud or underage play, should ID be requested.

Just IMPO.
KK

 

[Simmo!]

I got asked to do that once and wan't comfortable with it.

 

[KasinoKing]

I got asked to do that once and wan't comfortable with it.

Why??

 

[dazlazz]

Slotmonster,

Do you not do initial bank verification checks on card deposits???

Regards,

Daz

 

[H1_Roller]

If I was asked to do this before even making my initial/first deposit at a new casino, I might be ok with it.
The fact I can deposit endlessly without hassle yet get the barriers put up as soon as I try to withdraw is what annoys me.

 

[LaHutti]

Why??

hahahaha...
on a more serious note, with a little better photoshop skills...(or maybe just a little more time, to play with it, if you really want to pretend, that you're someone else), I find that absolutely worthless, and I wouldn't do it either.

 

[The Dude]

Not a prob for me.

 

[anniemac]

Wonder how many of those pics they would get?

 

[vinylweatherman]

It could be a pain if routine, since most cameras are not that easy to use when doing this as you can't see the picture you are taking. I was asked this, but found it not to be as simple as I thought, and despite many attempts at holding my camera at arm's length I found that I could not hold the camera still with one outstreched arm, nor could I know I had the right image in the field of view. The casino then told me it was OK and I no longer had to do this as they discovered I had been a loyal player for some time, so I aborted my attempts. It would be much easier with more expensive equipment, such as cameras that have two screens, one front and one back. Although I managed to get the picture, I could not read the address from my ID, surely the whole point of the exercise, so didn't even send the picture rather than have it rejected as "unclear".

The obvious solution is to get someone else to take it for you, but many players do NOT share their "guilty habit" with family, so would face a grilling as to why this unusual request was being made.

It is probably harder to "photoshop" such an image than a simple scanned document, and also allows the casino to compare the face of the player presenting the document with that on the document itself. This does not stop collusion, but WILL create problems if a stolen document is being used.

With proper analysis, a "photoshop" can be detected, no matter how good you think you are at it. I am sure some fraudsters have tackled this, but I am also sure casinos are reacting to this once they find out they have been duped.

If it is going to be routine, it MUST be made CLEAR to the player that doing this will considerably speed up the verification process, a carrot to encourage them to make the effort. Players who decline to do this could have limited facilities available to them, such as fewer "risky" deposit and withdrawal options, more checking and thus slower payment.

 

[Brooklyn]

It could be a pain if routine, since most cameras are not that easy to use when doing this as you can't see the picture you are taking. I was asked this, but found it not to be as simple as I thought, and despite many attempts at holding my camera at arm's length I found that I could not hold the camera still with one outstreched arm, nor could I know I had the right image in the field of view. The casino then told me it was OK and I no longer had to do this as they discovered I had been a loyal player for some time, so I aborted my attempts. It would be much easier with more expensive equipment, such as cameras that have two screens, one front and one back.

Or just a webcam?

 

[SlotMonster]

Or just a webcam?

That's what I was thinking about. I did my photo in 30 seconds.

 

[SlotMonster]

Slotmonster,

Do you not do initial bank verification checks on card deposits???

Regards,

Daz

Yes, we do, and we do many procedures even during the registration. But, as KK said before, sometimes payouts are large and payment options for deposits and withdrawals are different.

 

[chuchu59]

Maybe they want to diversify and enter the matchmaking industry.

 

[Jasminebed]

I have had a request for me holding my ID, which I complied with. I was quite okay with it, at least until it was later stated by a Rival rep that such requests were only made in cases of suspected fraud

I think this is definitely preferrable for most players to providing notarized copies.

It's a particularly good way to identify underage I think, where Junior is using Dad's details.

That such a request may be made should be in the T&Cs, along with an acceptable alternative, such as notarized ID.

 

[LaHutti]

Players who decline to do this could have limited facilities available to them, such as fewer "risky" deposit and withdrawal options, more checking and thus slower payment.

Which again could lead to casino's, demanding this, could end up with a lot less costumers than they would, without such a claim, which is why I don't think we'll see a lot of it.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Or just a webcam?

It would solve the problem, but would it give a satisfactory picture. Mine is about the resolution of a youtube video, and might not make any text readable. Whilst laptops routinely come with built in webcams, this is not the case with a desktop, where one has to be bought as an accessory. It's not something I use much, if at all, so it sits in a draw.

 

[Repro]

I think it's a good, fast and easy way to verify a player. I would prefer to do this BEFORE my first deposit though.
These days it's even easy to do by webcam.

 

[footdr]

The Id documents currently required by most casinos is already far more than is required by any online merchant. Once the player establishes trust with the casino, i.e. charges are paid, not reversed or disputed and especially when using a Debit, not Credit Card they shouldn't require further document or proof, Yet still some ask you to sign for each charge you make via credit/debit even when it has already been paid months previously, now that is stupid because what does that help if a charge is reversed 4 months later, are they going to send the document in to the bank? No as it would be incriminating.

There is trust on both the casino and players part and once that trust is established, no more documents should be necessary.

I laugh when they quote it is a law requiring this documentation. As a business owner who accepts charge and debit, I know that is not true.

 

[Nifty29]

Which again could lead to casino's, demanding this, could end up with a lot less costumers than they would, without such a claim, which is why I don't think we'll see a lot of it.

Possibly, but I don't see what people wearing costumes has to do with anything.

 

[rainmaker]

Nope - I don't want to do that.
Personally I don't understand why casinos have to ask for ID at all in most circumstances.

If a player requests a withdrawal to the same method he deposited with it should not be necessary.
Only in cases where a player wins a very large amount, wants to withdraw by a different method, or the casino has sufficient grounds to suspect some type of fraud or underage play, should ID be requested.

Just IMPO.
KK

Yes, I agree with you. And some of the larger sportsbooks/casinos do not require ID verification for "smaller" amounts. I think that the limit is often set to €1000-3000. I know for example that Nordicbet in the past has paid out without any ID ver. for smaller amounts.

 

[jod5413]

I was asked for this quite a while ago. It was a pain as I have no web cam and although I do have a good camera, I ended up holding my ID in front of a big mirror and taking a pic of myself (no one around to take it for me) with it up by my ear! Unlike Bryan D), not all of us are photogenic and it depressed the Hell out of me. I would definitely have a do-over if it was ever requested again.

 

[Jinn]

If the choice is between notarized documents or a photo holding a passport, surely most people would prefer the photo option - because you can do it yourself at home and it doesn't cost anything. If the notarized documents would have included a photo ID anyway then what is the harm in them getting one more photo?

As for the problem with photoshop making photos unreliable, well it's the same with notarized documents which can also be photoshopped, not difficult to change them so long as the casino doesn't personally contact the person who provided the notarization for confirmation... So the photo option would be almost equally reliable.

I don't think people have to worry about being not photogenic, casinos aren't going to deny withdrawals because you've got bags under your eyes

 

[P.V.]

Quite intrusive to require a photo holding their Passport or etc.. IMO.

We must acknowledge many players may be handicapped and not able to perform such a request. No need to go into details.

The internet is a great place shared by all but unless there's another option for those unable to perform this task within the T & C's and without penalty or embarrassment, I don't like the idea.

JMO -

 

[Jinn]

We must acknowledge many players may be handicapped and not able to perform such a request.

Getting documents notatized is not going to be any easier for someone handicapped. It would probably require more effort, plus extra costs - but a friend or carer could make the photo free.

Anyway I think the point is that the photo with passport should be one option, with other options like notarized documents still available so people can choose.

 

[P.V.]

Getting documents notatized is not going to be any easier for someone handicapped. It would probably require more effort, plus extra costs - but a friend or carer could make the photo free.

Anyway I think the point is that the photo with passport should be one option, with other options like notarized documents still available so people can choose.

Handicapped isn't all about what I can do, or what I can't do.

You should do some research on all aspects and I'll bow down from here.

 

[SlotMonster]

Well, that's the point: we could offer two options, standard documents (passport, bill etc - will take more time to verify and it STILL possible to do some photoshop work), and player's photo holding documents (just few minutes to verify and very hard to photoshop, because faces on a photo and player's MUST me a BIT different - smile, maybe different haircut, face expression, BUT STILL it will be the same face).

One more option: we could easily ask players send their photo holding a piece of paper with code word or phrase written on it (we can give it in our email). We even can make a video call via Skype or any other IM and ask player to SHOW us his/her passport or ID or Credit Card he/she used for deposits.

There are actually many options, I'm trying to find the easiest way for players to verify their identity.

 

[IanO]

some of the larger sportsbooks/casinos do not require ID verification for "smaller" amounts.

Sadly, from my own experiences, this is becoming less and les true. As trends like this come to light, fraudsters sit up and take notice.. and instead of one fraudulent withdrawal for $5,000 they now try 10 $500 withdrawals. As more and more fraudsters try this tactic, the casinos change theirs. It's an unstoppable spiral and eventually you will have to complete a full audit before dollar one gets sent

So when y'all find yourselves sending a bookload of documents for just $20, you know who to blame. Thne fraudsters, not the casinos.

I seem to recall jstrike asking something similar a while back... but instead of a still image it's verification over video chat. That would eliminate the possibility of flawless forgeries like the one seen above () while achieving the same goal. Send your docs by fax or e-mail as you always have, along with your skype/msn id and a suitable time to contact you. A rep (with your docs in hand) pings you and compares what you sent to who they see. I cant find ther thread... maybe it was someone else... but what do people think of this compared to the still image option?

I just saw a web cam for sale on amazon for 6 bucks... certainly cheaper or easier than finding a notary.

 

[KasinoKing]

Sadly, from my own experiences, this is becoming less and less true. As trends like this come to light, fraudsters sit up and take notice.. and instead of one fraudulent withdrawal for $5,000 they now try 10 $500 withdrawals. As more and more fraudsters try this tactic, the casinos change theirs. It's an unstoppable spiral and eventually you will have to complete a full audit before dollar one gets sent

But how do these fraudsters work?
I think that's what most honest players here can not understand (including me!)
For example, if a player deposits by Neteller, wins and withdraws to the SAME Neteller account, how can there be any fraud going on?
These players should not be asked for any ID in my opinion - unless I'm missing somethng...?

KK

 

[SlotMonster]

These players should not be asked for any ID in my opinion - unless I'm missing somethng...?
KK

Unless someone used this account without real owner's permission.
We are OK when deposit and w/d methods are the same - but we MUST be sure that it REAL account owner who deposited and played, because if someone lost big sum, they can come back and demand that it was their friend/wife/husband/son/daughter etc.

 

[quber]

Unless someone used this account without real owner's permission.
We are OK when deposit and w/d methods are the same - but we MUST be sure that it REAL account owner who deposited and played, because if someone lost big sum, they can come back and demand that it was their friend/wife/husband/son/daughter etc.

Rubbish.

These checks are done on withdrawal not deposit most of the time. if someone hacks my account and deposits hundreds of pounds no one at the casino is bothered, as soon as I withdraw a hundred pounds I have to prove who I am.

the Casino is not protecting the player at all so i wish they would stop saying they are doing all this for our benifit. You Arent.

 

[SlotMonster]

Rubbish.

These checks are done on withdrawal not deposit most of the time. if someone hacks my account and deposits hundreds of pounds no one at the casino is bothered, as soon as I withdraw a hundred pounds I have to prove who I am.

the Casino is not protecting the player at all so i wish they would stop saying they are doing all this for our benifit. You Arent.

If you are comfortable with your opinion - I do not insist.
But what if player withdrew MUCH LESS than deposited and then came to the casino, demanding it wasn't he/she who was playing. So what we should do?

 

[Tengil]

No I would certainly not be ok with that. Last time I checked its year 2011 not 2001.

And a bit OT but basically the same would apply if I had deposited with CC, would never send a copy of my card. I can upload my ID and at most a utility bill on a secured server but thats it.

And as for the "fraudster" issue. They of course like to lay the blame on others when they are the ones who have created the mess with their poor business model.
In the end for example multiple accounts cant be a really big problem, otherwise they would have come up with a pre-verification system.

 

[quber]

If you are comfortable with your opinion - I do not insist.
But what if player withdrew MUCH LESS than deposited and then came to the casino, demanding it wasn't he/she who was playing. So what we should do?

it is immaterial whether the player withdraws more or less than the deposit, if you are protecting the player from possibly having his account hacked then you should check on deposits NOT withdrawals. it is just a poor excuse.

Also if a player withdraws and then you ask him for ID you are giving him the opportunity to say "I haven't made any of those transactions, I must have been hacked" and would you believe him? No.

If you truly want to protect the player you would do all checks before any deposit was made, or on first deposit. The checks are to protect the casino (which is fine) but don't try and pretend you are protecting the player when that isn't the case.

 

[SlotMonster]

it is immaterial whether the player withdraws more or less than the deposit, if you are protecting the player from possibly having his account hacked then you should check on deposits NOT withdrawals. it is just a poor excuse.

Also if a player withdraws and then you ask him for ID you are giving him the opportunity to say "I haven't made any of those transactions, I must have been hacked" and would you believe him? No.

If you truly want to protect the player you would do all checks before any deposit was made, or on first deposit. The checks are to protect the casino (which is fine) but don't try and pretend you are protecting the player when that isn't the case.

Just try to find a casino which would do that. I mean verification before any deposit was made. Most players will just move to another casino if they are not allowed to deposit "right now".

As for protecting players from possibly having their account hacked: I think you are not right. Who's responsibility to keep their private data in safe (MB, Neteller passwords, emails, Credit Cards)? Should casino be a watchdog for players? I doubt it should.

From casino side, it's MUCH EASIER to return money to player whose payment account was hacked until money are still in the casino. As soon as payment has been made - it becomes casino's sole responsibility when the real owner steps in and wants their money back.

 

[rainmaker]

Just try to find a casino which would do that. I mean verification before any deposit was made. Most players will just move to another casino if they are not allowed to deposit "right now".

I think that maybe Virgin Casino will do verification quite fast, sometimes before first deposit. I remember reading something about that (I think it was Nate here who had some problems). I have not used them, but I signed up once. They closed my account before I had done any deposits since they wanted me to verify my account first.

 

[SlotMonster]

I think that maybe Virgin Casino will do verification quite fast, sometimes before first deposit. I remember reading something about that (I think it was Nate here who had some problems). I have not used them, but I signed up once. They closed my account before I had done any deposits since they wanted me to verify my account first.

Sometimes or always? That's the question.

 

[rainmaker]

Sometimes or always? That's the question.

Not always to my knowledge. I think the case was regarding how they closed his (Nate`s) account when he was playing with his first deposit or something (so he obviously had done one deposit before they asked for verification. But they did it before withdrawal). I am not so familiar with them, all I know for certain is that they closed my account before my first deposit since they wanted me to send in ID first

But I only opened an account to look around, so I did not bother

 

[Seventh777]

Just as I had made my 1st ever withdrawal at 32Red I duly rang them to check if they needed any documentation etc, and their response was `No need Roy, we have already verified you`, so it appears the 32Red group have discovered a way of verifying their customers with no need of the beyond annoying documentation fiasco, that rears it`s ugly head upon withdrawal requests, and unless they are left wide open to fraudsters and scam artists whilst using their stress free method, (which does not seem to be the case at all), then this is another huge pointer as to why this group have/had and still will for many years to come, awards coming out their asses for customer satisfaction related protocols.

Sky Vegas, Virgin, Ladbrokes and several others do not ask for docs either, is it by coincidence none of these have reverse withdrawals options either? (see what I did thar?).

I recently registered at 10Bet via KK`s website, 1st thing I done before depositing was ring them up and talked about documents etc upon a withdrawal, as I do not drive and my passport is out of date, and unless you are a U.K student or OAP then there is a strong chance you have no photo I.D., only to be re-assured that if I deposit using an e-wallet and withdraw to that method things would be okay, long story short I managed to beat the d+b w/r and had just over 2k balance, as 2k is the max withdrawal weekly limit I kinda wasted the excess and put in for a withdrawal, within an hour I had an email requesting....

Hi Roy,



Thank you for playing at 10Bet Casino.



Kindly note, that in order to verify your account upon your first big win and to process your withdrawal we will need you to send us the following documents:



-Copy of your ID, driver's license or passport

-Copy of a utility bill

Thank you very much in advance!



If you have any questions please do not hesitate to contact us 24/7 via Email, Live Chat and phone.



Kind regards,



Michelle



10Bet Casino

After some brief communication via phone and email and me sending - Utility bill, my outdated passport, screenshots of my Neteller account, birth certificate, I was duly deemed verified, I received my cash within 48 hours without any other obstacles, now for the love of God someone tell me, how the hell did any of those documents prove I was whom I stated I was?, whilst over at the 32Red group they knew I was me, long before I had made any withdrawals whatsoever.

The irony here being - speaking to them on a land line that does not withhold it`s number, a number that is registered in my name at my address and can quite easily be checked curtsey of directory enquiries, proving i`m over 18, and unless i`m a burglar using Roy`s phone in Roy`s home, whilst using Roy`s cash from Roy`s Neteller account whilst playing on Roy`s P.C. with his unique I.P. address (whois?/whatsmyIP?), then withdrawing to Roy`s Neteller account and using Roy`s email address that Roy`s Neteller account is registered with. Then that phone call is more than enough verification needed.

 

[Repro]

Just as I had made my 1st ever withdrawal at 32Red...
...now for the love of God someone tell me, how the hell did any of those documents prove I was whom I stated I was?, whilst over at the 32Red group they knew I was me, long before I had made any withdrawals whatsoever.

32RED and 3DICE realize that if you use an eWALLET (like NETELLER in my case) they ALREADY checked everything, including bankaccounts, shoesize and how many pets you have. There is really no use (*except for a real suspicion of fraud) for a casino to go all over it again.

 

[Seventh777]

32RED and 3DICE realize that if you use an eWALLET (like NETELLER in my case) they ALREADY checked everything, including bankaccounts, shoesize and how many pets you have. There is really no use (*except for a real suspicion of fraud) for a casino to go all over it again.

Amen to that brother .

 

[kangamick]

It's things like this that make me only want to play at a B&M casino.

I can understand for bonuses you mite ask for this but if I deposit with my own cash, play with no bonuses, I should be able to withdraw hassle free.

 

[Jufo]

Just try to find a casino which would do that. I mean verification before any deposit was made. Most players will just move to another casino if they are not allowed to deposit "right now".

Wagerworks casinos (Virgin, Blue Square, Boyle) didn't let me deposit until I had verified my identity and their verification was quite strict and took some time (I had to provide them the long sequence of code text at the bottom of my passport first page). So yes, some casinos do this.

 

[Nate]

Sometimes or always? That's the question.

I made a deposit and played for quite a while and my account was suspended mid session. If I had lost that amount and my account was then locked, I wouldn't bother going back. I made the effort because I had a balance over $1k.

Nate

 

[DiamondGeezer]

Well, that's the point: we could offer two options, standard documents (passport, bill etc - will take more time to verify and it STILL possible to do some photoshop work), and player's photo holding documents (just few minutes to verify and very hard to photoshop, because faces on a photo and player's MUST me a BIT different - smile, maybe different haircut, face expression, BUT STILL it will be the same face).

One more option: we could easily ask players send their photo holding a piece of paper with code word or phrase written on it (we can give it in our email). We even can make a video call via Skype or any other IM and ask player to SHOW us his/her passport or ID or Credit Card he/she used for deposits.

There are actually many options, I'm trying to find the easiest way for players to verify their identity.

I've had a passport photo request from Canbet which I was happy to provide and personally can't see what the problem is.

I also think Skype would be a good way forward. Casinos need to do more in terms of KYC amd ought to do more to combat fraud.