Why would you do it?

[4 of a kind]

[Max says: this was split off from "Return to Player - Critiques Requested" for what I assume are obvious reasons.]

In terms of creating a page that addresses the major issues for online gaming - I'd agree there is little hope of that. The waters there are a little too deep, and a little too murky, for a small group of people out of Vancouver to clear on their own.

Since you are the CEO of a gaming software provider, and certainly appear to be one of the good guys, maybe you could answer a few question that I'm curious about.

What drives a CEO of a software company to engage and associate within an industry that for over a decade has a reputation of misleading, embezzling, committing fraud, and outright blatantly stealing money from their customers? It's obvious you realize the waters are murky and deep as per your own quote above.

Based on your out of pocket settlement for 40K to a player that was obviously being stolen from one of these crooks using your software, what motivated the board to pay this victim while looking ahead?

It should be obvious to most that your decision to pay that amount was of course the righteous thing to do, but looking ahead did the company believe it would eventually recover those losses and continue to show profits?

Do software providers put all of these negative factual issues on the side, and take the approach that someone is going to do it regardless, so we might as well get a piece of the billion dollar industry?

If the operators are not regulated, why don't the software providers who are willing to supply the operators with the equipment needed to steal from their customers, have their own regulations and enforcement in place for protection which would in turn protect not only the software company but the customers also?

Would these conditions being in place before you sold them your software bring sales to a screeching halt?

Do software providers get a one lump fee upfront, or are the providers receiving commissions from the casino profits?

If the software providers receive commissions all along, (which I believe is correct since they own the source codes) wouldn't that in reality make the software provider and the operator both one in the same?

[Nifty29]

[QUOTE=4 of a kind;446432]

In terms of creating a page that addresses the major issues for online gaming - I'd agree there is little hope of that. The waters there are a little too deep, and a little too murky, for a small group of people out of Vancouver to clear on their own.
/QUOTE]


Since you are the CEO of a gaming software provider, and certainly appear to be one of the good guys, maybe you could answer a few question that I'm curious about.

What drives a CEO of a software company to engage and associate within an industry that for over a decade has a reputation of misleading, embezzling, committing fraud, and outright blatantly stealing money from their customers? It's obvious you realize the waters are murky and deep as per your own quote above.

Based on your out of pocket settlement for 40K to a player that was obviously being stolen from one of these crooks using your software, what motivated the board to pay this victim while looking ahead?

It should be obvious to most that your decision to pay that amount was of course the righteous thing to do, but looking ahead did the company believe it would eventually recover those losses and continue to show profits?

Do software providers put all of these negative factual issues on the side, and take the approach that someone is going to do it regardless, so we might as well get a piece of the billion dollar industry?

If the operators are not regulated, why don't the software providers who are willing to supply the operators with the equipment needed to steal from their customers, have their own regulations and enforcement in place for protection which would in turn protect not only the software company but the customers also?

Would these conditions being in place before you sold them your software bring sales to a screeching halt?

Do software providers get a one lump fee upfront, or are the providers receiving commissions from the casino profits?

If the software providers receive commissions all along, (which I believe is correct since they own the source codes) wouldn't that in reality make the software provider and the operator both one in the same?

Maybe I'm misreading the title, but I thought this thread was about RTP and how it works.

It seems you are once again hijacking a thread with your personal "online casinos are satans instruments" agenda. We all know where you're at, so how about refraining from interrogating a rep who came here to provide useful game information for members. It just seems like you have jumped on the guy with a whole lot of conspiracy theory nonsense.

Poor form IMO.

[jetset]

Yeah....I have to say I got the same impression that 4oak was posting O/T and with the intention of yet again furthering his somewhat negative and now well known agenda regarding the online gambling industry in general.

I hope this is not going to be another useful thread derailed.

[4 of a kind]

I would like to apologize for my aggressive tone focusing on my well known personal agenda, which is actually nothing more then trying to keep in the forefront the realities of gaming online.

Unfortunately, for the most part I might be one of the last few members still here that is willing to call a spade a spade, and not afraid of asking the tough questions. Most other members in the past that were willing to challenge the lack of integrity have either been banned for one reason or an other, or surrendered and packed up. Some here I’m certain would hope the same fate fall my way.

I felt this thread I hijacked from a software provider posting all this fluff about RTP’s was nothing more then a commercial trying to win the opinions of the members here. I agree it could be an interesting topic for members not familiar with it, especially if everything was confirmed with online gaming to be on the up and up. But all of this same information could be found at the Wizard of Odds who's explanations are a result of confirmed regulated and enforced facts with land-based casinos.

I thought the questions I asked were fare and took the opportunity in that thread to ask them, since the OP appeared to be sincere and didn’t think he would clam up.

Many threads have been started in the past asking similar questions to online gaming reps., operators, and software providers, only to be completely ignored and fade away. I thought this was a good opportunity while one was talking to get some answers, but as you could see they’ll go unanswered and just fade away.

I apologize to the members I offended for once again trying to bring to light the well kept secrets hidden in the dark side of online gaming.

[silcnlayc]

I would like to apologize for my aggressive tone focusing on my well known personal agenda, which is actually nothing more then trying to keep in the forefront the realities of gaming online.

Unfortunately, for the most part I might be one of the last few members still here that is willing to call a spade a spade, and not afraid of asking the tough questions. Most other members in the past that were willing to challenge the lack of integrity have either been banned for one reason or an other, or surrendered and packed up. Some here I’m certain would hope the same fate fall my way.

I felt this thread I hijacked from a software provider posting all this fluff about RTP’s was nothing more then a commercial trying to win the opinions of the members here. I agree it could be an interesting topic for members not familiar with it, especially if everything was confirmed with online gaming to be on the up and up. But all of this same information could be found at the Wizard of Odds who's explanations are a result of confirmed regulated and enforced facts with land-based casinos.

I thought the questions I asked were fare and took the opportunity in that thread to ask them, since the OP appeared to be sincere and didn’t think he would clam up.

Many threads have been started in the past asking similar questions to online gaming reps., operators, and software providers, only to be completely ignored and fade away. I thought this was a good opportunity while one was talking to get some answers, but as you could see they’ll go unanswered and just fade away.

I apologize to the members I offended for once again trying to bring to light the well kept secrets hidden in the dark side of online gaming.

No need to apologise. You had a question or thought and you posted/asked it. Not all of us have been run off. Just tired of the silly games some want to play when one does have something to say or ask which is then hijacked by them by their inane damands of stuff that has no bearing on the question or opinion of itself that was posted. You are not alone. You are allowed to question and post. And we are still here reading.

.

[LaHutti]

No need to apologise. You had a question or thought and you posted/asked it. Not all of us have been run off. Just tired of the silly games some want to play when one does have something to say or ask which is then hijacked by them by their inane damands of stuff that has no bearing on the question or opinion of itself that was posted. You are not alone. You are allowed to question and post. And we are still here reading.

.

Ditto that.

[Cleveland]

Since you are the CEO of a gaming software provider, and certainly appear to be one of the good guys, maybe you could answer a few question that I'm curious about.

It seems as if you are double talking. I for one somewhat enjoy reading your threads but why would a rep want to engage in this discussion when it's obvious that no matter what he says, you are ready to demonize him? You start by saying he appears to be a good guy, as if to reel him in then drop how you really feel on him:

I felt this thread I hijacked from a software provider posting all this fluff about RTP’s was nothing more then a commercial trying to win the opinions of the members here.

since the OP appeared to be sincere and didn’t think he would clam up.....
....I thought this was a good opportunity while one was talking to get some answers, but as you could see they’ll go unanswered and just fade away.

And this is obviously a loaded question:

your decision to pay that amount was of course the righteous thing to do, but looking ahead did the company believe it would eventually recover those losses and continue to show profits?

Of course they figured or hoped they would show a profit. What company wants to outright lose money? With this questions you basically said "hey I know you helped and paid the guy, but you did it because you're evil and knew you would some how get the money back"

You have a debate between people who are willing to engage in a back and forth dialogue with a mind open to "possibly" changing the way they think. This thread isn't it.

edit: This was my first multi quote response/thread. Got it right on my first try. O yea

[chuchu59]

Dammit Cleve. You got it right first time but I have failed numerous times and I give up. I am a computer illiterate and I must admit that. Never mind, you wrote what I wanted to say.

[jod5413]

4oak, If you would not throw in comments like "Most other members in the past that were willing to challenge the lack of integrity have either been banned for one reason or an other, or surrendered and packed up. Some here I’m certain would hope the same fate fall my way." and others like it I believe more members would be willing to at least think about your points of view about on line gambling. Not all of your points are wrong, I don't believe, but the delivery method just turns people off and that causes dissension among the members.

I do not think any intelligent person would deny the pitfalls and possibility of losing their money in an unregulated on line industry based on gambling. But you will not convince anyone when you paint all with the same brush, which is how I see so many of your thoughts being delivered.

Just my opinion.

[binary128]

I only now became aware of this thread. I have no problems in contributing, in the hope that I am providing something of value to the audience.

[Moderators: Please Note. I tried to keep out anything which could be considered "spammy" or promotional. Please edit if I have not been successful.]

Why would I do it?

Well, first of all, I LIKE playing our Pontoon, Pai Gow Poker, Jacks or Better, Deuces Wild, Craps, and Oasis Poker games. I play them in our play-for-free product all the time.

Second, I have written, and continue to write, a lot of the computer code that has gone into our products. Helping to create our products, and helping to build our company, have been tremendously satisfying to me. I enjoy seeing something which I have created, or helped to create, work seamlessly and flawlessly; it has been, and continues to be, a fantastic personal experience.

Both Galewind and my current deployment are perfectly content with the House Edge for a profit. There are no "Robots" exclusions, or "Pattern Bettor" exclusions. Players are not blocked if they are on a winning streak, regardless of the extent of that streak (and there have been some real doozies). The "marketing strategy" is very simple: high returns. In short, it is exactly what it appears to be: if you win, you win, and you get paid.

Re: "It's obvious you realize the waters are murky and deep ..." We'd have to have been living under a rock not to realize otherwise. Have there been problems? Certainly (data: Rogue Pit). Do these problems continue? Also certainly (data: Rogue Pit). Is corruption a requirement? Well, no, it's not.

Re: "... what motivated the board to pay this victim ..." We paid Westland Bowl because someone had to. He won "fair and square". That's it. Really, that's it.

Re: "... recover those losses ..." We gave this no thought whatsoever. How do you recover that kind of loss? We don't do any advertising, so we couldn't incorporate it into any kind of "Promotional Budget". We just wrote a check, and went back to work.

Think about it for a sec, 4oaK? For 2 and a half years, did we talk about it? Where could we? Did we promote it? Where could we? Can you point to anything anywhere which demonstrates that we used this in any way to recoup the loss? I leave that to you to answer for yourself. My answer: if we did it, we did it really really badly.

We wrote a check, and we went back to work. That's it.

As to the rest of your first post - I don't know how to reply. For some of it, I think, a response is not really practical. For the rest, well, to be accurate, I don't think it is really any of your business.


In your follow up post: "... posting all this fluff about RTP’s ..."

This comment, and the entire paragraph in which it is contained, upset me. You have made clear your belief that Casino software companies are part of "... an industry that for over a decade has a reputation of misleading, embezzling, committing fraud, and outright blatantly stealing money from their customers ..."

However, when a software company attempts to do something which goes against that belief, you state that such an effort is "... nothing more then a commercial trying to win the opinions of the members here ..."

(Also of note: If the page for which I was asking critique is "fluff", then it is the highest-density fluff since the creation of the sofa.)

So 4oaK, come on, you know all of this. You know all of this.

But, for me, the bottom line: I don't appreciate getting a punch in the jaw for no other reason than that I decided to enter the room.

Chris