Video Poker not random?

[daveboz]

I make some bold claims there yes. I've found there is not much churn opportunity there after a nice run which you would think would allow for another run. It just ends. It is a fact though, Bodog purchased the source code from RTG software which makes it their proprietary software now giving them free reign to tweak or do what they want. All in all, the streakiness is brutal. Have you ever hit a 4oak at Bodog or any RTG casino? Try it and play a few hands after, maybe ten. Count winners of those ten.

I treat each play session as one time now, if I double my stake I cash out and come back later. Bodog cash out is top notch. Took less than an hour the other day.

A spreadsheet tracking results? Are you for real LOL! What? track the next draw discard and result x 20? This is VP. You have to keep moving. I'm not referencing slot machines.

[3mptyseat]

Apologies if you know this already, but I just wanted to clarify that the casino software licensed to Bodog brand licensees is no longer accurately described as the “RTG Casino” product. BodogBrand acquired the rights to the RTG Casino source code in early 2007 and since then the product has been significantly enhanced and has undergone continuous development. Today, the casino platform licensed to the Bodog brand licensees is effectively a wholly proprietary product.

Also, I can assure you that the bodog casino software is legitimate, it has auditing from three separate, independent companies for their own proprietary games and another testing lab for their third-party games.

Proprietary games -> TST, Gaming Associates, eCOGRA
Third-party Games -> iTech Labs

This page provides information on the certification of the bodog casino software.

Thank you!
Becky

ok Becky, the only games worth playing besides mystic shuffle are from RTG though, its like CXTM has a gun to ur back to say that everytime some mutters RTG and Bodog in the same breath anywhere in cyberspace ...

Do They? Their games suck, and most of the games that are included in ur 'bespoken' platform including ur blackjack and vp, besides having the code rewritten so they games' RTP can be adjusted at operator whim, look and feel like RTG games... Would U agree to that? And the names seem similar to the old RTG stable, for instance, Bodogs bespoken platform calls Goldbeard, the pirate video slot with big payouts and even bigger waits in between payouts, Goldbeard... Crystal Waters, well, its called Crystal Waters....

When was the last time u heard someone speak of 'Pirate Slots' in any sort of light? Well, that game is awful, but I doubt it will affect anything, can't imagine anyone plays it...

Ah yes, to my point...

Note that the Bodog Rep does not contradict the tone of this op. Instead, they just need to jot a note to correct u, (excuse my paraphrasing) "... silly gambler, for mis-naming the 'wholly proprietary' product that looks and steals just like an RTG, but it isn't. And that shows what u know... And btw, 3 testing groups said we are good enough at math to make our games pay out at a certain RTP, and hence, appear random over a large enuf sample, but in fact they have a 'turn' after which u cashout or u go broke... But what do u care, ur silly gamblers Teee Heee Heee!"

I am mean. They are dishonest and worse; indignantly condescending...

[Nifty29]

A spreadsheet tracking results? Are you for real LOL! What? track the next draw discard and result x 20? This is VP. You have to keep moving. I'm not referencing slot machines.

....then without that or playlogs you are just guessing. We always tend to remember the bad things over the good things, and it might surprise you if you were to keep such records.

Anyway, the part I don't get is that one minute you say Bodog is rigged (because they tamper with the source code), and the minute you talk about how you're still playing there. Sorry, but it doesn't give your theory much teeth if you don't really believe it yourself.

[Nifty29]

ok Becky, the only games worth playing besides mystic shuffle are from RTG though, its like CXTM has a gun to ur back to say that everytime some mutters RTG and Bodog in the same breath anywhere in cyberspace ...

Do They? Their games suck, and most of the games that are included in ur 'bespoken' platform including ur blackjack and vp, besides having the code rewritten so they games' RTP can be adjusted at operator whim, look and feel like RTG games... Would U agree to that? And the names seem similar to the old RTG stable, for instance, Bodogs bespoken platform calls Goldbeard, the pirate video slot with big payouts and even bigger waits in between payouts, Goldbeard... Crystal Waters, well, its called Crystal Waters....

When was the last time u heard someone speak of 'Pirate Slots' in any sort of light? Well, that game is awful, but I doubt it will affect anything, can't imagine anyone plays it...

Ah yes, to my point...

Note that the Bodog Rep does not contradict the tone of this op. Instead, they just need to jot a note to correct u, (excuse my paraphrasing) "... silly gambler, for mis-naming the 'wholly proprietary' product that looks and steals just like an RTG, but it isn't. And that shows what u know... And btw, 3 testing groups said we are good enough at math to make our games pay out at a certain RTP, and hence, appear random over a large enuf sample, but in fact they have a 'turn' after which u cashout or u go broke... But what do u care, ur silly gamblers Teee Heee Heee!"

I am mean. They are dishonest and worse; indignantly condescending...

In fairness to Becky, she is correct in that the RTG games they use are not the ONLY games available, hence their actual product is not strictly RTG. When was the last time you played an RTG-labelled casino that had other providers' games included?

Of course we all know that many of the games are RTG, but if one is to describe the whole product it is proprietary.

Do they play with the source code? I don't know, and neither do you. So it comes down to trust like at any other casino. If you don't trust them, don't play there. No problem.

I just think it's uncool to accuse any operator or 'rigging' games without any proof whatsoever.

[heador112]

You see in video poker at least (Netent) if you get say 2 jacks, if you throw them away you will get jacks or better anyway, how can this be random?

I cannot believe that . If this is really happening often it would be the proof that the game is not random .

Can you post links to other forums where people talk about that ?

I wonder why you are folding a pair of jacks or better and how often (lets say 100 times throwing away a pair of jacks or better ) you get the same after folding ????

[bpb]

A spreadsheet tracking results? Are you for real LOL! What? track the next draw discard and result x 20? This is VP. You have to keep moving. I'm not referencing slot machines.

I was right ...

[lots0]

Precisely. The casino(s) can't lose... Despite this cast-iron fact, I keep going back to it

You are correct... the casinos can't lose...in the long run...
That is why "stack management" is so crucial. If your ever going to walkaway with money, you have to play smart... not just play a lot...

[KasinoKing]

I cannot believe that . If this is really happening often it would be the proof that the game is not random .

Can you post links to other forums where people talk about that ?

I wonder why you are folding a pair of jacks or better and how often (lets say 100 times throwing away a pair of jacks or better ) you get the same after folding ????

Thanks for posting - I was thinking the exact same thing.
This thread has got completely sidetracked to a discussion about RTG randomness, which though interesting in itself, it is no where near as interesting as the experience of the player in the opening post IMO!

Any chance of getting this thread back on track people?
Reminder:

Hello all, i found something strange past the years i been playing, but i have till now ignored this,

You see in video poker at least (Netent) if you get say 2 jacks, if you throw them away you will get jacks or better anyway, how can this be random?

Just play the minimum and try it for your self if you dont trust me.

I tested this on RTG and i got the same result, i folded the 222 and got 333, but this happens almost all the time on Netent.

I searched on internett and found lot of people saying exactly what i mean. so the video poker is like slot machines now?

So the machine thinks : i will give him back his bets no matter what?

[Glunn11]

This is an interesting topic to me, and I agree with KK that it would be great if we could get substantive arguments regarding game fairness.

However, it seems that every claim that this is the case uses nothing but anecdotes or how a game "feels". These both, to me, appear to be nothing more than a positive feedback loop of sorts, where players disregard their winning streaks and focus solely on the losing streaks to make a pseudo-argument. Heck, I'm guilty of making accusations in my head when this happens. It's just the way the brain is wired. We seem to be conditioned against skeptical reasoning.

Nonetheless, I don't think that it's outside of the realm of possibility that the games are rigged. However, the burden of proof lies in the hands of the accusers, and I've failed to see any. With counter-evidence such as CSVs of play history and the fact that big names (such as Michael Shackleford [the Wizard of Odds]) have contributed to the creation and testing of the majority of online gaming software, complainants of game fairness need to be using the same mathematical rigor to prove their point.

While I'm not up to testing this hypothesis at this time, I would like to throw this bit in. We are all fully aware that Slotland's "Jacks or Better" game is rigged. The fact that it is a glorified slot machine is made clear in its rules. However, the way the RTP is controlled (in free play mode) is apparently not the same as it is in a land-based VLT. That is to say, I threw away a pair of kings and lost the hand. I admit that this was in freeplay mode, and if someone has evidence to show that it uses VLT-style RTP control in real money play, that would be nice to know.

If anyone is up to running some tests, might I suggest screen recording software. This would help in proving that paying hands, when thrown away, produce an abnormal amount of equally-paying hands.

[rainmaker]

You see in video poker at least (Netent) if you get say 2 jacks, if you throw them away you will get jacks or better anyway, how can this be random?

http://www.nordicbet.com/eng/casino?...sw&popup=False

The link is for NetEnt VP at Nordicbet. Those who want to try will quickly see that the OP is wrong.

Yeah, it will of course happen. Because it is random. But it does not happens "almost every time".