Question about free chip (Maxd)..

[uxix]

Thanks for this thread first of all
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/...ments-met.html

I know what you're saying here but..if so then there's no real difference between playing on a free chip or a deposit...and there should be. (WR?..well most people take deposit bonuses anyways and have WR)..

For example: if i deposit 50$(+100% bonus=100$) of my own money and want to withdraw at 1000$ and i reach it then withdraw..or if i get a 100$ FREE chip with a 5x max cashout, finish WR get to 1000$ then withdraw..
Whats the difference here? Don't u agree that since its free money then there should be a difference? For the casinos the 5x max is it..

I agree that having to withdraw the 5x and then redepositing doesnt really make sense so then the 5x max cashout should not be there for any free chip in the first place.

This is only at RTG casinos for some reason as all MG free chips dont have a max cashout.

Do you know what i mean? Thanks.

[ergopro]

Was wondering the same thing...even RTG's from accredited section are doing the same thing with free chips and max cashouts.
All Rivals with max cashout do the same thing.
Playtechs with max cashout do the same thing...until you cash out, the bonus chip T&C applies according to them. Not many T&C's have that mentioned.

[3mptyseat]

I think the point is; 'It' being the term which the casino uses to justify a 'scrape' of the overage amounts off the top of a balance that has completed its WR and is in effect the proceeds of successful gambling is not the terms... "It" is therefore used only to trip up folks who have not already been tripped up by this enforcement of the this phantom rule...

And while it does not make any sense to have to withdraw and then redeposit... I can think of at least one casino group on the accredited list who uses a slight variation of this rule... At CWC when u get a 'freechip' it generally comes with a 10x WR and a 10x's Max cashout... The balance at any given time after the WR are met is still subject to the max cashout rule, until the withdrawal is submitted, the time elapses while the cashier sits and wait for the time to elapse, and then the withdrawal is processed... And these terms are clearly stated in the details of the agreement...

But I have oft wondered what the point could possibly be of not allowing a near-instant cashout/reversal method to scenario? I have thought and rethought on this and I am sure there is some logic behind the term; but idk what that would be? Any ideas?

Here is the scenario:
Lets say u get a vip bonus in the form of a free chip... Its carriers a 10x's WR and limits cashouts from said chip to 10x's the amount of chip. Its a $75 dollar chip and that amount is not cashable. $750 in WR as well as $750 max cashout... But upon completing the WR u have $430... Which is $355 after u subtract the amount of the orig. bonus from the balance of the withdrawal...
Well, even though its $355 dollars of free money, many of us have played this back in an attempt to reach the max cashout plateau... Which seems to be the best case scenario for the house...

But even more of us would play it back if, once the wr were met, we could have the excess monies 'scraped' and then play with the amount left (presumably the max cashout amount) free and clear sans restrictions on games or max cashouts... Im fact, the max cashout chip keeps many players with limited impulse control from giving the money back bc most of us wouldn't be able to risk funds that had hit peak maturity already. So I can't see the point in risking something that can't get any bigger, can you? Comp points is the obvious answer and a bad answer at that... Any other reasons? IDK either... So I cant figure out why its there? Unless there is that much profit in deceiving customers new to the platform who, upon clearing WR, assume any new winning to be theirs ?

Btw, not knocking cwc; i cashed out a big night on tuesday evening around 1130 my time via ACH, and it was in my account 26 hours later... Thats pretty damn fast!

[maxd]

..if so then there's no real difference between playing on a free chip or a deposit...and there should be.

My question would be "why?" Terms are Terms and an agreement is bound by the Terms regardless of whether the money comes from the player, the casino, Santa Claus, or the Tooth Fairy. Once those Terms are complete no one has a right to come back and say "yeah, but you won on free money so we have a right to say what happens to those winnings", or whatever. I say "bosh!". Terms completed = deal completed, end of story. None of this "but it was free money" twaddle.

After the Terms are done the player's balance does not have a little tag on it that says "free money winnings". I know the casino may think it does but that's where I say the casino is practicing a little wishful thinking. And think of the consequences of this: "free money winnings" is just the tip of the iceberg if we allow that kind of thinking to prevail. Next it'll be "you won too quick" winnings, or "we don't want to pay you" winnings. It's not any kind of winnings, it's just gambling money: if the player has completed the Terms then there are no little labels on it and nobody has a right to it but the player.

If the casino doesn't like the fact that the player won nicely on free money then don't give out the free money in the first place. Coming back later with "ifs" and "buts" is underhanded and just plain wrong. Forget about it! Once the casino has offered the Terms and the player agreed and fulfilled them then the casino just has to suck up the fact that some people win when they gamble: if you gave them the money to do it then tough noogies. You set the Terms, you live with the consequences.

I can hear some folks saying "why should some punter walk away with $750 without ever having risked a cent". I would say "well he wouldn't have won that money if you didn't invite him in, shove money in his hand and offer him an insanely generous 5x max win". Frankly that's the casino's problem if they choose to go that route.

Anyway, ranting aside, the real point is that if a withdrawal of the balance is required to terminate the Terms of the bonus then the Terms should say "a withdrawal of the balance is required to terminate the Terms of this bonus". Coming back later and doing a "gotcha!" on the player basically sucks as a way to manage that kind of offer.

As 3mptyseat pretty much said, by going this route the casino is depending on the player to screw up and get caught by the "shadow" Terms in order for them to claw back (some of) their money. If that's how they feel about it, and I totally understand why they would be pissed that that kind of money is walking out the door with nothing to show for it, then that money should never have given in the first place, IMO, and especially not at 5x Max Win.

And that's bottom line here: it's a stupid risk for the casino to take, 5x Max Win is insanely generous and the casino deserves what they get if the player walks away laughing his ass off. Underhanded tricks are not the way to make that situation any better.

Do you know what i mean? Thanks.

Dunno, did anything I say above address your question? Was there a question?

Are you meaning I should flag other casinos for doing the same thing? Sure, no problem, show me the Pitch-A-Bitch cases and I'll deal with them accordingly.

Of course now someone is going to say "why should there have to be a PAB in order to flag a casino on this?" and I'd say "because that's what I do", among other things. If someone thinks that Casinomeister as a site should have a particular policy here then I'd say "Bryan is your man" because he sets site policy.

I still haven't addressed the issue? Please lay it out and I'll give it another crack.

[refre]

As far as I see it this is about casinos preventing players from racking up comp points after WRs have been met. No problem! But in doing this they send a message to the player that the T&Cs of the bonus are fully enforced. IMHOP they (the casinos) can't have it both ways. Either they remove excess winnings the instant WRs are met, or upon withdrawal. Would be interesting to get a comment from those accredited casinos who employ this method of enforcing max cashout.

Freddy

[petro]

I have seen a lot of different bonuses. The most comfortable bonuses are the Microgaming Clearpay bonuses imo.

Usually they;

- have not max cashout
- move to you real balance in increments of 10
- are easy to check how much you have left to wager

32Red use Clearpay type bonuses.

[uxix]

Dunno, did anything I say above address your question? Was there a question?

Are you meaning I should flag other casinos for doing the same thing? Sure, no problem, show me the Pitch-A-Bitch cases and I'll deal with them accordingly.

Of course now someone is going to say "why should there have to be a PAB in order to flag a casino on this?" and I'd say "because that's what I do", among other things. If someone thinks that Casinomeister as a site should have a particular policy here then I'd say "Bryan is your man" because he sets site policy.

I still haven't addressed the issue? Please lay it out and I'll give it another crack.

You have, i simply needed it to be explained further that's all thanks for replying man and thank you guys.