Absolute Poker/Ultimate Bet Keno Rigged

[pokeraddict]

Just in case you needed more reasons to not play there. The first link is to the thread at 2+2 that alleges the game isn't random. The Youtube video backs up this claim.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29...vg-zoo-898568/

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhalYzlNCh8&fmt=22"]YouTube - Absolute Poker Keno Rigged[/ame]

[same_old]

Just in case you needed more reasons to not play there. The first link is to the thread at 2+2 that alleges the game isn't random. The Youtube video backs up this claim.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29...vg-zoo-898568/

YouTube - Absolute Poker Keno Rigged

lol, doesnt surprise me at all.

I went and read that thread over at 2+2, you really got to take your hat off to guys like NOFX and all that effort they put in to bring things like this to the surface, and he doesnt even play keno or slots.

thanks for posting it here as it is more of a casino thing as opposed to poker itself and I see NOFX wanted to get a casino/keno forum invloved so that is great.

These guys are already on Bryans "not to touch" list so im not sure if he will take this one on, he may do for shits and giggles?

thanks for posting anyway Addict

[coenie]

It is probably like a slot with a set %RTP, i never would reveal a pattern if i found one, you can make serious money exploiting it

I am gonne try to find a pattern with some other software with keno, intresting.



,Coenie

[Rusty]

Great work from those guys.

It may be using a pseudo RNG but because the pattern is in the win/lose results and not the actual numbers drawn each round my view is that this may be a symptom of weighting that exists in slots as well but it becomes much more obvious in this Keno game since there are only 3 ways to win and 2 of those are statistically unlikely.
I am not a member of the forum but if this has not been discussed there I think it is something they might consider.
Certainly I can very easily replicate the same results while still generating random draws each round for example.

Also when they consider that the player loses less than with a fair Keno game I believe they are missing the point and it is the same point that is constantly missed here by people who insist the games are fair and unweighted.
That is that a game that guarantees a 96% return is far worse than a game that has a theoretical return of 95% because the player is guaranteed to lose.

[AreYouCereus]

Hi Guys,

I Wanted to bring the following to your attention, perhaps some of the guys on here could carry out further and more conclusive investigations on a wider range of their games.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29...vg-zoo-898568/

No surprise really, they are already in the rogue pit but this takes the proverbial biscuit!

[Seventh777]

Great work from those guys.

It may be using a pseudo RNG but because the pattern is in the win/lose results and not the actual numbers drawn each round my view is that this may be a symptom of weighting that exists in slots as well but it becomes much more obvious in this Keno game since there are only 3 ways to win and 2 of those are statistically unlikely.
I am not a member of the forum but if this has not been discussed there I think it is something they might consider.
Certainly I can very easily replicate the same results while still generating random draws each round for example.

Also when they consider that the player loses less than with a fair Keno game I believe they are missing the point and it is the same point that is constantly missed here by people who insist the games are fair and unweighted.
That is that a game that guarantees a 96% return is far worse than a game that has a theoretical return of 95% because the player is guaranteed to lose.

I think I understand what you are saying, for eg :- Say I deposit £100 at a casino play 100 spins at £1 a spin and end up with £10 I have a 10% return, but next deposit after my 100 spins I have £185, an overall return of 95% for both deposits, but a huge fluctuation between returns, which in turn means you have a good chance of making a nice profit if you make a deposit when the casino is balancing the books as such, I for the life of me cannot work out why people are more than happy playing at casinos that guarantee they lose 4% of their initial deposits, we all play to win ....yes?.

Does it not add upto that casinos that are regulated and show returns of around 95% -98% should also show percentages well below these to counter-balance the big payouts when they come?.

[Rusty]

I think I understand what you are saying, for eg :- Say I deposit £100 at a casino play 100 spins at £1 a spin and end up with £10 I have a 10% return, but next deposit after my 100 spins I have £185, an overall return of 95% for both deposits, but a huge fluctuation between returns, which in turn means you have a good chance of making a nice profit if you make a deposit when the casino is balancing the books as such, I for the life of me cannot work out why people are more than happy playing at casinos that guarantee they lose 4% of their initial deposits, we all play to win ....yes?.

Does it not add upto that casinos that are regulated and show returns of around 95% -98% should also show percentages well below these to counter-balance the big payouts when they come?.

Regarding guaranteed RTP, if such a thing were true, it would probably work in a similar way to AWP games and it could be employed in any number of ways yet unlike a AWP game they would maintain randomness.

I very much doubt a Casino or software provider would be foolish enough to implement such a system though one never knows.

I think the more likely scenario is weighting which is basically just an advanced dynamic version of the above that retains randomness.
This would be very difficult to detect in slot games but in a game like Keno using a pseudo RNG it would stick out like a sore thumb if it were implemented poorly for the reasons I mention previously.
You couldn't cheat such a system though by forcing patterns because it would retain randomness.

Other than that it can only be a faulty RNG but if I have the facts correct, that the draws maintain randomness yet the results do not, then that can not be the case.

I'm not sure what you meant in your last paragraph. Are you talking about advertised theoretical RTP in paytables or audit results?

[pokeraddict]

The software company seemes to license the software and is not owned by AP/UB. I think someone in the know about casino software might want to do some more ivestigation. This might be an evil software provider as opposed to a purely lazy one.

[Seventh777]

I'm not sure what you meant in your last paragraph. Are you talking about advertised theoretical RTP in paytables or audit results?

Ah my bad, I meant the shorter term theoretical RTP, even though this is hard as there are no guidelines as to how much has to be wagered for a slot to reflect an accurate return percentage.

[Rusty]

Ah my bad, I meant the shorter term theoretical RTP, even though this is hard as there are no guidelines as to how much has to be wagered for a slot to reflect an accurate return percentage.

The theoretical RTP should be based on a complete cycle of all possible combinations with returns calculated from the paytable - along with any bonus or free spin rounds added in.
As to how that may reflect over shorter or longer periods of time would be down to the variance of the particular slot.
All the above assumes a completely fair game with no weighting.