How exactly do slots get "tightened?"

[SlotsLover]

Hi all. I posted this at the bottom of an old thread and didn't get much response, so I thought I would start a new thread.

I have ready so many experienced posters discussing "tightened slots" and reduced RTP lately. I was wondering by what mechanism posters thought this was happening, especially in the case of proprietary softwares like RTG or MG. The original post is below:

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I have a question for those of you who claim that certain RTG casinos "tighten their slots." Can you tell me how you believe this mechanism works? I don't doubt that it may be true, but I am wondering how it happens.

I know of only two ways to "tighten slots." They are to lower the payouts or to change the outcomes so that fewer winning combinations, especially those involving bonus rounds or wilds. The former is easily determined by looking at the paytables. I have not seen any differences in paytables for RTGs, has anyone else?

The second way I believe involves affecting the stream of symbols (outcomes) that are sent by the third party (RTG) to the player. This would mean that RTG sells different RTP packages (not via changing the payouts) to casinos and that the probability of say getting a bonus round under one package is different than getting a bonus round under another package. Does anyone know if this is the case? Can anyone working for RTG confirm this? If it is done in secret, then that would require that no disguntled employee from RTG or any one of the casinos would ever make this public? In my opinion this would be very difficult to keep quiet.

Personally, I have always trusted RTG software (I don't trust proprietary softwares in many cases) but that does not mean that I am correct. I am just trying to understand how the casino would "tighten the reels" and if this is likely or even possible.

Thanks in advance for any information you can share with me on this matter. I've read so much about "tightened reels" and reduced RTP that I am very interested in understanding how this is done.

[Rusty]

Hi all. I posted this at the bottom of an old thread and didn't get much response, so I thought I would start a new thread.

I have ready so many experienced posters discussing "tightened slots" and reduced RTP lately. I was wondering by what mechanism posters thought this was happening, especially in the case of proprietary softwares like RTG or MG. The original post is below:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have a question for those of you who claim that certain RTG casinos "tighten their slots." Can you tell me how you believe this mechanism works? I don't doubt that it may be true, but I am wondering how it happens.

I know of only two ways to "tighten slots." They are to lower the payouts or to change the outcomes so that fewer winning combinations, especially those involving bonus rounds or wilds. The former is easily determined by looking at the paytables. I have not seen any differences in paytables for RTGs, has anyone else?

The second way I believe involves affecting the stream of symbols (outcomes) that are sent by the third party (RTG) to the player. This would mean that RTG sells different RTP packages (not via changing the payouts) to casinos and that the probability of say getting a bonus round under one package is different than getting a bonus round under another package. Does anyone know if this is the case? Can anyone working for RTG confirm this? If it is done in secret, then that would require that no disguntled employee from RTG or any one of the casinos would ever make this public? In my opinion this would be very difficult to keep quiet.

Personally, I have always trusted RTG software (I don't trust proprietary softwares in many cases) but that does not mean that I am correct. I am just trying to understand how the casino would "tighten the reels" and if this is likely or even possible.

Thanks in advance for any information you can share with me on this matter. I've read so much about "tightened reels" and reduced RTP that I am very interested in understanding how this is done.

Do you want the official version or the true version.

I will just give you the official statements from RTG and MGS regarding RTP - I am sure you can find the million and one threads I have written disputing the official versions if you feel inclined to do so.
Read the following to get some background on how RTP is made up and the different ways it can be altered legitimately or just skip to the bottom for the official explanations.

First of all RTP = Return to player and this should be made up from the theoretical return of a slot over a complete cycle of possible combinations.
A complete cycle of combinations would be every combination of stop positions possible so for a 5 reel slot with 30 symbols on each reel there would be 30 possible stop positions for each reel.
A total cycle for all 5 reels would be 30x30x30x30x30 = 24,300,000 total combinations.
From these combinations each win according to the paytable is totalled.
Such a slot with a 95% RTP would return a total of 23,085,000 coins assuming 1 line @ 1 coin bet.
How that 95% RTP is made up (determined by the paytable) is what is referred to as variance.
Basically fewer winning combinations paying higher amounts would be higher variance while more winning combinations paying lower amounts would be lower variance.

All fairly basic but of course things are more complicated than this because the slots have bonus rounds which needs to be factored into our RTP and these can involve some quite complex calculations, particularly for free spin rounds with dynamic multipliers etc.
For example you can calculate how many free spin rounds would be triggered in our 24,300,000 combinations but how do you calculate what will be won during those free spin rounds?
This where software companies can legitimately claim to use weighting and probability tables though my stance is that this practice is disingenuous at best and I know for sure players are being lied to about free spin rounds when the software company or casino claim that each free spin is an independent spin and independent of all other results.

Just to add to the complexity Free spin rounds can re-triggered on many slots and this also has to be factored into the theoretical RTP.

So,the million $ question;
If the theoretical RTP is set and there is no weighting (Trying to keep a straight face here ) the only way it can be changed is by changes to the paytable or to symbol layout upon the reels.
Now for the official statements.
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RTG state that they have only 3 RTP settings for each slot and the minimum setting is 93% (sorry straight face )
The way they alter the RTP is to change the reel strips.
A casino can not arbitrarily (sorry) change the setting and has to send a courier pigeon (or email) to RTG headquarters where RTG will consider their request (This really cracks me up, the thought of RTG dictating to a client what they can and can not set their RTP at, especially since they have no qualms about licensing out their software to criminals and con artists - doesn't add up does it?)
If RTG approve of the change they will make the new RTP version of the slot available for upload by the Casino.

MGS state that the RTP of their slots can not be altered.

Hope that helps.

[SlotsLover]

Thanks for the informative post. Just to make sure I understand correctly, does RTG admits that they have different settings which affect the outcomes and not that the RTP is affected by lowering some payouts like can be done for table games?

For example, I know on tricard poker, some casinos pay 5-1 for a str. flush on the ante bet and others pay 4-1 or even 3-1, so that is one way that the RTP can be adjusted.

[takethemoney]

The software companies and casinos really must think the majority of customers have a watermelon for a brain, or we are like the scarecrow from the Wizard of Oz.

I can really just hear these guys when they have meetings:

"Don't worry, we can do what we want to them. The customers are too stupid to figure it out."

Pepper that in with some purposeful disconnects, payout run arounds, lack of flushing and some unrealistic bonus terms and winning is not for the common person. Reality sucks, huh?

[voltage1]

The software companies and casinos really must think the majority of customers have a watermelon for a brain, or we are like the scarecrow from the Wizard of Oz.

I can really just hear these guys when they have meetings:

"Don't worry, we can do what we want to them. The customers are too stupid to figure it out."

Pepper that in with some purposeful disconnects, payout run arounds, lack of flushing and some unrealistic bonus terms and winning is not for the common person. Reality sucks, huh?

that's close ....probably more like this :
"Don't worry, we can do what we want to them. The customers are too addicted and Will deposit somewhere to play no matter what we do"
" and If one doesn't ... there is always someone willing to deposit standing in line right behind him .....NEXT !!!"

[4 of a kind]

This is an excerpt from an old review of RTG posted at CasinoAdvisor...



Full Review - Realtime Gaming (7.00)

One thing we found was that they also give their operators a lot more freedom with their software, some players may like this others may not. For instance operators can choose how high or low the payout percentages are to be on a per game basis. This makes it hard to decipher who amongst operators will be rogue and who will be extremely generous. This alone is a very unattractive feature for us. Most other software providers do not give their operators the freedom to set these parameters and makes them universal amongst all operators. We believe that this is the better approach of the two.

[Rusty]

Thanks for the informative post. Just to make sure I understand correctly, does RTG admits that they have different settings which affect the outcomes and not that the RTP is affected by lowering some payouts like can be done for table games?

For example, I know on tricard poker, some casinos pay 5-1 for a str. flush on the ante bet and others pay 4-1 or even 3-1, so that is one way that the RTP can be adjusted.

According to RTG symbols are added or taken away from the reel strips which obviously has an effect on the probability of outcome for all combinations.
Without going into to much depth you can imagine that a single scatter symbol on a reel strip that is 30 symbols long would have a higher probability of appearing in the window than a reel strip with a single scatter that is 35 symbols long.
You could keep the reel length the same and add another instance of a certain symbol or take an instance away and this would naturally only change the probability of outcome involving that symbol and in this way they can make a particular outcome more or less likely ans so alter the RTP.

Changes to variance and RTP could also be done through a system of weighting the reel stop positions, in particular the Wild and scatter symbols though this is denied by software companies.

If software were properly regulated this would be unacceptable as the player can not know the odds of the game they are playing which should be a basic right when making a wager.
On table games, as you point out, the return is changed (or should be) by changes to the rules or payout structure.
Again the player would be informed of any changes if the software and casinos were properly regulated.

[SlotsLover]

Rusty, thanks for the information.

Can you tell me how you know or how I can find out where RTG says they add/remove symbols?

I had many times before seen that casinos can adjust the RTP but I always assumed that could only be done by adjusting the payouts.

Thanks, this is all very informative.

[Mavin1]

Hmm, now where is that Casino33 thread with Casino Jacks comments....

[XOXOXOXOXOX]

Hmm, now where is that Casino33 thread with Casino Jacks comments....

did you mean this thread?
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/...gaming-me.html

some screenshots were posted too but then removed.
see #83,84