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Intertops casino slots RTP issue

Rusty

Banned User - repetitive flaming
Joined
Jul 23, 2006
Location
Manchester UK
OK I can now say with certainty that Intertops casino is rigging its slots to such extremely low RTP it is impossible to hit anything.

I have asked them to let me know what the RTP was set at on the slots I have played but they are simply ignoring my requests.

I made one last deposit today and again I got around 50% return and zero features.

Do not play Intertops casino.
I will see them in court any day of the Week if they want try me on a libel charge.

Hey, Intertops take me to court, please.
:lolup:
 
Of course they have. Bryan Bailey aka Casinomeister was clever, when he created this site - 1998. He and his Mafia partners under "Casinomeister Accredited Casinos and Poker Rooms" it is just there, how they generate money ... So you didn't know this?

Come on, this is not Your first thread, where You blame that "Casino X is rigged", without any other info. You know, it is not.

I have payout % from 20 to thousands... it is just, if i am lucky or not ;)

And i don't start new thread after every session, when i lose, or when i don't get that feature after X round. Gambling should be entertainment ...not fighting, blaming, obsession, dishonesty or so. Watch these threads, instead creating new ones, and have fun... there is lot's of entertainment e.g. on Tradition Casino thread :D

Next!
 
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Intertops casino is rigging its slots to such extremely low RTP it is impossible to hit anything.

I thought the same thing, but i don't complain about it, i only closed my account, that's the only thing you can do, because if you have a bad feeling in a casino, than there is really no need to play there again ;)

I've made ther esurely about 20 deposits and could never cashed out anything, not, because i'm not patient enough, but it's because i could never get about my starting balance, on every single deposit and i made deposits between 30 and 50 $ and played always only with 20 cent bets.

So do the same like me and close your account immediately :-D
 
OK I can now say with certainty that Intertops casino is rigging its slots

Sheesh Rusty are you still playing :eek:

Without actually looking at ever post you've made, at a guess every online casino that you play and don't win you post that they've have rigged slots.

Although there are some dodgy casinos who run flakey software that have been proven beyond doubt that their games are rigged, I can most certainly say that Intertops is NOT one of them.

Reiterating my previous recommendation to you on 1 of your "this casino is rigged threads"...Give it up Mate and find another hobby.


Cheers

:)

Dave
 
Some of the above posts are exactly why I can't be bothered writing properly any more about all the issues online gaming has.
I have done so many times but it just gets ignored or conveniently forgotten.
I have taken my detractors and their nefarious arguments to task and destroyed their arguments time and time again with logic and facts.
I really can't be bothered to do it all again.

This is the first time I have accused a casino of consistently rigging its slots so it is next to impossible to win.
Do you really think I would use such strong language if I could not back it up?
Do you think I would merrily challenge a Casino to sue me for libel on a public forum unless I knew I could prove the games were unfair?
You must be pretty dim.

I can play at any RTG and get the usual data which shows the slots are weighted (so what - it is not illegal just unethical) but when the RTP is set to a low level consistently and the Casino refuses to give information the RTP then it is time to let people know that they are ripping people off, maybe save them some money.
Play another RTG, fine and you know what to expect but at least you will get the odd winning streak and hopefully some entertainment for your dollar.

People who tell me I am just writing another thread without evidence make me laugh. I have written long threads with poof positive about the dynamic weighting in online video slots.
When I first came here the standard line from the likes of the above posters was that there was no such thing as - now it is accepted.

I have got information out of Top game and RTG on how their slots operate on these very boards and my technical knowledge is far higher than most of my detractors, so perhaps, just maybe, instead of trying to patronise me you should read what I write and accept it as fact, because that is what it is.

As for VWM, I expect better.
I wrote an article here explaining the differences between AWP slots and online video slots.
I have even explained in great deal how some of the algorithms work and still there is absolutely no connection between how the two work.
If you knew anything about programming, you would know that at least.

The beauty (for operators) of weighting slots is that there are no patterns, they retain a random element, why is that so hard for people to grasp?
I have explained it over and over and over in the very simplest terms - it is so obvious you have to be blind not to see it.
Just follow the scatters and wilds for Gods sake!

The weighting is a fact but operators can still claim their games are 100% random etc and not even lie.
That is the problem. You might get a fair game with RTP around 95% or you might as well kiss your deposit goodbye before you even make a spin.
That is where I make the distinction between just weighted and rigged.
65% RTP is not a fair game, especially when you are led to believe the RTP is over 93%.

GET IT YET?
 
@Rusty:

I have read old post of yours(I have been reading very lot of old threads here to catch up) and your knowledge is far beyond the average of the readers here.

When you write "this casino has rigged slots" most of the readers think that you are just another loser.

Unfortunately many post begins with either "Holy Underwear Casino stole my money" or "Magic Foot Casino is rigged".

Can you give us more information about the rigged games?

I am always interested to read about how we can determine how the slot machine is loose or tight.

To suddenly see that the wild symbol on reel two hasn´t been seen for 50 spins.. When it´s infact according to mathematics is there at least every third spin is interesting to me.

What software do they have at Intertops?
 
i agree:
after reading several older posts of yours (very interesting!)
i'd also be inclined to have you elaborate on this.
nevermind the possible people that might "try" and discourage you from being more informative: they can only succeed if you give a damn :)
i never think its pointless to share info like that:
just make sure to stay correct, for forum policy's sake.
say: im led to believe..., ...because i observed following,...correct me if im wrong etc.
 
Intertops casino rigged slots - untrue statement!

Intertops Casino Red is a reputable casino. All games are fair and unbiased.

Rusty, we have reviewed your Casino Red account and it appears that you have concluded your findings from such a small sample of games! To be fair, in order to arrive at the real game percentages, you would need to use a larger sample of events.

Please be assured that Intertops are fair and aim to be as flexible as possible when customers are on a losing streak by giving bonus to try their luck again.

We have many winners everyday and our payouts are extremely fast! It appears that you had a small unlucky streak but that is what gaming is all about. Don't give up - try your luck with us again.
 
Intertops Casino Red is a reputable casino. All games are fair and unbiased.

Rusty, we have reviewed your Casino Red account and it appears that you have concluded your findings from such a small sample of games! To be fair, in order to arrive at the real game percentages, you would need to use a larger sample of events.

Please be assured that Intertops are fair and aim to be as flexible as possible when customers are on a losing streak by giving bonus to try their luck again.

We have many winners everyday and our payouts are extremely fast! It appears that you had a small unlucky streak but that is what gaming is all about. Don't give up - try your luck with us again.

Thanks for responding here Intertops. Since you say Rusty's sample size was too small to make a true determination, would you be willing to send him copies of his lifetime playlogs there so that he would have a larger sample size in order to make a better determination of his true RTP that he has had there?
____
____
 
Intertops Casino Red is a reputable casino. All games are fair and unbiased.

Rusty, we have reviewed your Casino Red account and it appears that you have concluded your findings from such a small sample of games! To be fair, in order to arrive at the real game percentages, you would need to use a larger sample of events.

Please be assured that Intertops are fair and aim to be as flexible as possible when customers are on a losing streak by giving bonus to try their luck again.

We have many winners everyday and our payouts are extremely fast! It appears that you had a small unlucky streak but that is what gaming is all about. Don't give up - try your luck with us again.

This is pretty much a typical response, very similar to what I have gotten every time I have complained, and lately there has been a lot of complaining, because lately there has been a big change to RTG casinos, which operators do not want to admit to, plain and simple. I have not played intertops and I do not intend to. My 70 deposits and losses of nearly $20,000, which went the casino's way each and everytime, tell me that I don't need to test this software anymore. It's already showed it's ugly head over and over again. It didn't used to be that way.

I'm not a loser. I have taken the steps to make sure that this does not happen anymore....I've uninstalled every RTG casino and will not go back until I have quantifyable evidence that the payouts have once again become fair. I have logs which show my bankrolls dropping thousands, with nary a hit of any kind. I'm going with Rusty on this. I posted a poll awhile back. 2/3 of players who voted believe the games are rigged. Where are all the winners these days? They are keeping it to themselves, or more believably, they aren't happening. As the random jackpots get bigger it is easier to tout a pseudo RTP because those are factored into the RTP calculation.

Sure, the casino might payout 95%, but all the other suckers that didn't hit RJs got a 50-60% RTP. And out of those how many played back some or most of their winnings because of weekly payout limits? Confidence in these games appears to be at an alltime low, if anyone is noticing.
 
Intertops:To be fair, in order to arrive at the real game percentages, you would need to use a larger sample of events.
I ask, what would you call a fair sampling? This is a reply by many casinos. A generality..never down to numbers..

If 16 years of samplings at a variety of RTG casinos (not yours) is not enough (my play) then I do not know what is. I agree...something has changed (not rigged, or cheating etc) just changed to reflect a smaller percentage of wins for the average player.

Rusty, glad to see you back...

.
 
Intertops Casino Red is a reputable casino. All games are fair and unbiased.

Rusty, we have reviewed your Casino Red account and it appears that you have concluded your findings from such a small sample of games! To be fair, in order to arrive at the real game percentages, you would need to use a larger sample of events.

Please be assured that Intertops are fair and aim to be as flexible as possible when customers are on a losing streak by giving bonus to try their luck again.

We have many winners everyday and our payouts are extremely fast! It appears that you had a small unlucky streak but that is what gaming is all about. Don't give up - try your luck with us again.

Hi I think your response is appreciated and its good to see a casino coming in on these threads.

While your here can you please let us know what the RTP on your slots is ? as im on the understanding that RTG casinos can have 1 of I think 3 settings.

Many thanks :)
 
To kind of play devil's advocate here...
Intertops Red is the ONLY RTG casino I play at. I get angry and frustrated when I go 6-7 deposits without any chance of a win ( or even retaining my initial money). BUT, I have gotten "freebies" in between, ranging anywhere from $25 to $100. I am NOT a high roller, and my deposits are usually within the $25 range. Fortunately, I have been able to withdraw several times a month, nothing grandioso, but enough to be able to play again the 6-7 times I lose. I, unlike some, play for entertainment value. IF I happen to win big I'm ecstatic, BUT that is why they call this gambling. You can't expect to win every time.

It seems like every gaming software goes on a cycle where players whine and complain about the platforms. A few months ago everyone was ragging about Rival ( and IMO, rightly so. They have serious problems in my book). Before that it was microgaming (of course being shut out of almost all of the MG casinos, I'm saddened because I do like their games). Now it's RTG. IMO, if you are so dissatisfied with the way the casinos are running you have serveral choices...
A) Switch to a platform you feel you can trust.
B) Start playing at B&M instead of playing online
or
C) Quit gambling.

I have to honestly say, Intertops Red has been good to me, even though I am prone to occassional, irrational fits. Their CS has always been upfront and knowledgeable. And my payouts have been relatively fast (usually within 24 hrs to my QT account). This is not a push for people to play here, it's just my own personal experience...
 
ksech: B) Start playing at B&M instead of playing online
That is my recomendations also...I have had a ball the last few months taking my trips up there. I have even come home with more than I went with on top of my free 2 night stay (they gave me 3 but I only stay the weekends), 2 free buffets/dinners, $300 in slot play (CASHABLE!!!!) no restrictions or requirements to be met before wtihdrawing, what a concept!..

Don't you just love it! I am NOT missing playing online at all..I dabbled a little last night with a $40 deposit and got squat...until next month testing again (maybe)...

I actually am enjoying my biweekly trips again knowing I am appreciated and even if I win...I still get my freebies and I actually get treated like a valuable player!

.
 
Intertops Casino Red is a reputable casino. All games are fair and unbiased.

Rusty, we have reviewed your Casino Red account and it appears that you have concluded your findings from such a small sample of games! To be fair, in order to arrive at the real game percentages, you would need to use a larger sample of events.

Please be assured that Intertops are fair and aim to be as flexible as possible when customers are on a losing streak by giving bonus to try their luck again.

We have many winners everyday and our payouts are extremely fast! It appears that you had a small unlucky streak but that is what gaming is all about. Don't give up - try your luck with us again.

If Rusty doesnt mind, can Intertops post the number of spins played and the RTP. While we can say that Rusty may not have provided enough evidence, it is equally true that you may have been a bit evasive by stating that the sample size is very small.

@Rusty, give Intertops permission to publish the stats here mate.

Hopefully, we dont need to play 1M spins at $0.2 to get an RTP of 96%. Would have lost my shirt by then.:D
 
To be honest, i dont buy this ` oh your results aernt accurate cos their taken from such a small sampling......` rubbish.

I realise rtp varies (or it should SLIGHTLY) based upon say someone hitting big on a slot, but that does NOT mean rtp for the average player should drop below what it is SUPPOSED to be by such a HUGE amount.

If i play a slot, whether i play 100 spins or 1 million, if that slot has a published rtp of say 94 % THAT (or around that)is what you should get. IF it drops to 45 % you ARE being ripped off. Its as plain and as simple as that.

There are far too many casinos using the exscuse of oh its not really true because youve only played 2.3 million spins so far so im sorry but your dating sampling set isnt big enough :p

How about the last 40 or 50 deposits that have averaged far far less than 70 %? I suppose THAT isnt a big enough sampling data set either?

People are waking up to the tricks and tactics of casinos these days, and all the complaints that are being seen as of lately I think are just the tip of the iceberg. Theres a titanic on its way :D
 
Hi I think your response is appreciated and its good to see a casino coming in on these threads.

While your here can you please let us know what the RTP on your slots is ? as im on the understanding that RTG casinos can have 1 of I think 3 settings.

Many thanks :)

Hi Intertops rep, would really appreciate an answer to the above question posted a few days ago.

many thanks.
 
My advice... don't hold your breath! :p

KK

Well I was, but passed out, but I am now breathing again. :( , still a bit blue though.

I guess what it really boils down to is that the average player is no longer welcome at RTG, as we the average player cannot spend/spin millions of spins per session to get the advertised RTP.

Once the RTP fit everyone, now it's doesn't. Plain and simple.
 
My advice... don't hold your breath! :p

KK

Well no suppose wont be holding my breath ;) strange how some casinos can be very selective with the questions they are prepared to answer and those they are not.

Only conclusion I can come to is a refusal to answer my simple question is becuase "maybe" the rtp is set to the lowest setting offerd by RTG. Alot can be read into a refusual to give any kind of response to this question.

Ah well plenty of casinos who do give the RTP :) So no sweat.
 
Well no suppose wont be holding my breath ;) strange how some casinos can be very selective with the questions they are prepared to answer and those they are not.

Only conclusion I can come to is a refusal to answer my simple question is becuase "maybe" the rtp is set to the lowest setting offerd by RTG. Alot can be read into a refusual to give any kind of response to this question.

Ah well plenty of casinos who do give the RTP :) So no sweat.
:thumbsup:


The casinos know that in our hearts we know the truth. They can't address it. There is no way to without opening a whole can of worms. What are they gonna say at this point; we've been lying to you all along?
They got greedy, they got caught, and now their businesses will suffer the consequences. As I've stated before, I don't expect to win everytime I play. I exect to pay, to a certain extent, for my entertainment. A win once in a while should be expected as well as losses. Problem is the wins don't come anymore and it's all about the losses. Pretty one sided if you ask me.
 
How do we find the ones that will show the RTP ??
My knowledge is a little bit limited on this, but I think only WagerWorks et al and Rival softwares publish the RTPs of their slots (though I suspect 1 or 2 of the Rival ones are typo's and not correct)
I hope these links are OK, if not can a mod remove them please:-
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


I'm not aware of any other softwares or individual casinos publishing theirs (though we do know what some MG slots RTP is, and also know which 3 settings most RTG slots can be set to).
IMHO this is really stupid - if just one RTG casino would step up to the plate and tell players what all their slots are set to, I reckon they would DRAMATICALLY improve the number of customers they'd get! :eek2:

KK
 
Lol you dont have to have a marketing degree or any degree for that matter to start an online casino. Just cos you have the dosh, doesnt mean your clever enough to run one. Wish I could afford to run an RTG, I would show them how its done and I really would put them all to shame :D
 
The whole sample size issue is interesting.

I know someone said that if they dont get 94% back out of 100 spins then they are being ripped off.....and others say similar things.

My question is this - what is an acceptable amount of spins in which you want to have a return close to the RTP?

If you have 10 spins@$1, do you want to get $9.40 back? If you have 50 spins@$1, do you want $47 back?? etc etc

If the answer to any of those questions is 'yes', then the only way you are going to get it is to find a slot that returns 94% of every single bet made...i.e. each time you spin $1 you get 0.94c back. Trouble is, there is no such slot, and if there were, it would be a) boring as hell and b) absolutely impossible to win!

So, for the casino to give you a chance to win at certain times (we all know its not possible all the time) the paytable and reels have to be adjusted to allow large wins for certain combinations and almost nothing for others - and to allow for the possibility of a non-winning spin.

Another thing to consider is this: If you had 200 spins@$1 and only got about $40 back, would you feel ripped off? If you then decided to have one more spin (#201) and hit a $300 payout, would you then still feel ripped off? Do you see where Im coming from? RTP has nothing to do with how much you should expect to win each session - it is purely an measurement of how much the game will give back to the player over the life of the game (the 'life' of the game has been explained to me as the number of spins required to cover every possible combination of the reels e.g. if there are 5 million combinations possible, then over 5 million spins you would expect the RTP to be fairly accurate, although certain combinations may come up more than once or not at all, so the actual 'life' of the game will in reality be greater than the actual number of combinations)

Hope this helps someone to understand. I know it makes a lot of sense to me.

Mind you, if someone came out tomorrow with conclusive proof that all online slots are totally rigged and not at all random and they always have been, would anyone actually stop playing?? I mean, we have all had big wins and big losses over our 'careers', so does it matter how they come about? As long as the RTP is reasonable, does it matter how it is generated? Either way, it still comes down to being in the right place at the right time. As for people thinking that RTPs claimed by online casinos are a load of rubbish, come over to Australia and play the Government statutory-regulated 84% RTP machines for a few weeks and you will see that the online slots pay much much better. Put it this way - I havent played a land based machine for over 18 months and I have about 1000 of them within 10 mins drive from my house at 8 different venues.
 
The whole sample size issue is interesting.

I know someone said that if they dont get 94% back out of 100 spins then they are being ripped off.....and others say similar things.

My question is this - what is an acceptable amount of spins in which you want to have a return close to the RTP?

If you have 10 spins@$1, do you want to get $9.40 back? If you have 50 spins@$1, do you want $47 back?? etc etc

I don´t have the answer but at some low variance slots at Rival they have published things like:

Estimated RTP =95%

Out of 1000 spins, at least 82% of the estimated RTP should be paid.


This is a low variance slot.

If the answer to any of those questions is 'yes', then the only way you are going to get it is to find a slot that returns 94% of every single bet made...i.e. each time you spin $1 you get 0.94c back. Trouble is, there is no such slot, and if there were, it would be a) boring as hell and b) absolutely impossible to win!

If it was land based it would be the perfect money laundering machine..

Mind you, if someone came out tomorrow with conclusive proof that all online slots are totally rigged and not at all random and they always have been, would anyone actually stop playing??

I wouldn´t, but I´m sure that many of those true believers would stop play and many players would change their betting pattern.
But I also believe that among many of the current doubting players there aren´t many that thinks that they are totally rigged.

As long as the RTP is reasonable, does it matter how it is generated? Either way, it still comes down to being in the right place at the right time.

Agree!
 
Which ones do you suspect are typos?
Hole in Won and Cosmic Quest 2.
(They're too high)

I don´t have the answer but at some low variance slots at Rival they have published things like:

Estimated RTP =95%
Out of 1000 spins, at least 82% of the estimated RTP should be paid.

This is a low variance slot.
Sounds about right. :thumbsup:

If it was land based it would be the perfect money laundering machine..
:what: :confused: Nope - don't get it - you're going to have to elaborate on that!

I wouldn´t, but I´m sure that many of those true believers would stop play and many players would change their betting pattern.
But I also believe that among many of the current doubting players there aren´t many that thinks that they are totally rigged.
Sooooo.. they're happy to play slots which are only a little bit rigged...
Hmmmm.

KK
 
The whole sample size issue is interesting.

I know someone said that if they dont get 94% back out of 100 spins then they are being ripped off.....and others say similar things.

My question is this - what is an acceptable amount of spins in which you want to have a return close to the RTP?

If you have 10 spins@$1, do you want to get $9.40 back? If you have 50 spins@$1, do you want $47 back?? etc etc

If the answer to any of those questions is 'yes', then the only way you are going to get it is to find a slot that returns 94% of every single bet made...i.e. each time you spin $1 you get 0.94c back. Trouble is, there is no such slot, and if there were, it would be a) boring as hell and b) absolutely impossible to win!

So, for the casino to give you a chance to win at certain times (we all know its not possible all the time) the paytable and reels have to be adjusted to allow large wins for certain combinations and almost nothing for others - and to allow for the possibility of a non-winning spin.

Another thing to consider is this: If you had 200 spins@$1 and only got about $40 back, would you feel ripped off? If you then decided to have one more spin (#201) and hit a $300 payout, would you then still feel ripped off? Do you see where Im coming from? RTP has nothing to do with how much you should expect to win each session - it is purely an measurement of how much the game will give back to the player over the life of the game (the 'life' of the game has been explained to me as the number of spins required to cover every possible combination of the reels e.g. if there are 5 million combinations possible, then over 5 million spins you would expect the RTP to be fairly accurate, although certain combinations may come up more than once or not at all, so the actual 'life' of the game will in reality be greater than the actual number of combinations)

Hope this helps someone to understand. I know it makes a lot of sense to me.

Mind you, if someone came out tomorrow with conclusive proof that all online slots are totally rigged and not at all random and they always have been, would anyone actually stop playing?? I mean, we have all had big wins and big losses over our 'careers', so does it matter how they come about? As long as the RTP is reasonable, does it matter how it is generated? Either way, it still comes down to being in the right place at the right time. As for people thinking that RTPs claimed by online casinos are a load of rubbish, come over to Australia and play the Government statutory-regulated 84% RTP machines for a few weeks and you will see that the online slots pay much much better. Put it this way - I havent played a land based machine for over 18 months and I have about 1000 of them within 10 mins drive from my house at 8 different venues.

Great analysis Nifty! TBH I also think that most RTG slots are maintained at the 93% -96% RTP level. However, it does seem that the big win is very elusive nowadays and only comes around when you have an RTP of 60%-70% over several hundred spins. Unless it's a real titanic win, the big win only covers up a huge portion of your loss and you never really get ahead. That's from my experience and what fellow posters have been saying all along. They never get ahead at any stage from the word go.

Many players are able to accomodate some losses and in the past you will sometimes get wins that will exceed your losses for the sessions in question and if you decide to call it a day you win. However, it does seem that even big wins dont come soon enough to eradicate your losses for any particular session and that is why many posters here complain that they have lost dozens of deposits in a row. Just as possible that the huge win can come in the 500th spin it should easily have come out in the first 20 spins. Maybe I havent played enough recently but each and every time I need to take hundreds of spins to hit a big one and at that stage the balance could not revert even to the original deposit amount. In the past, it was possible for one to come ahead for a couple of deposits in a dozen. Now that rarely happens.
 
@KK:

The "money laundrey machine" i was referring to was Nifty:s invented machine that gave 94% back on every single spin.:D

It was a joke but based on reality:

At many places there are known facts that criminals with "dirty money" do pretty much everything to get them "cleaned". Criminals even pay 10% overprice for winning lottery tickets.

In this way they can use the money to everything without people wonder about how they got their money.

An example from Sweden: When land based casinos became legal in Sweden(we have only 4 and they are owned by the government :rolleyes: ) there was a couple of players who on Roulette bet huge money on either red or black and a little loser who bet on 0..

This meant that they in the end had lost only the house edge and they got a receipt from the casino when they cashed in. With the receipt they had no worries about people wondering about the money.

After a while people understood what was going on and they are controlling it very strictly.
 
But those "skill based" bonus round mess things up I guess. The estimated average are(according to Rival) 96/95% .
That´s more normal.
Where did you get that from? :confused:
I just checked at Box24 and they still say:-
Hole in Won = 99%
Cosmic Quest 2 = 98%

IMO both these are typos and definitely wrong.

KK
 
Where did you get that from? :confused:
I just checked at Box24 and they still say:-
Hole in Won = 99%
Cosmic Quest 2 = 98%

IMO both these are typos and definitely wrong.

KK

Strange that Box24 have written the high RTP when it´s skill based.
It´s from Rivals own marketing material.

This example is from Hole in one, it looks the same with the other game but the numbers are 98/95 there.
 
Strange that Box24 have written the high RTP when it´s skill based.
I think we've had this conversation before, I'm 99.99999% sure it's RIVAL who supply the rules pages to ALL Rival casinos and that no casino can alter them in any way at all.
I would bet that if you logged into every single Rival casino they would all say the return is 99 on Hole in Won... and NO I'm not volunteering to do it! :p

It´s from Rivals own marketing material.
This example is from Hole in one, it looks the same with the other game but the numbers are 98/95 there.
Where exactly are you getting this data from?
(Can you PM me if you don't want to post it)

Thanks,
KK
 
I think we've had this conversation before, I'm 99.99999% sure it's RIVAL who supply the rules pages to ALL Rival casinos and that no casino can alter them in any way at all.

You are probably right here, but I don´t remember it..:o

I would bet that if you logged into every single Rival casino they would all say the return is 99 on Hole in Won... and NO I'm not volunteering to do it! :p

You are even more lazy than I!:p

Where exactly are you getting this data from?
(Can you PM me if you don't want to post it)

PM is coming!
 
Hi everyone. This is my first time posting and I would like to wish everyone good luck on gaming sites. Have a lucky day all:)
Posted in COMPLETELY the wrong place - but welcome to the forum anyway! :thumbsup:

KK
 
Not sure if this thread is even about Intertops anymore since it has been so derailed now but I just wanted to explain that the rep has just recently made it back home from a conference. The mess in Europe with the ash cloud has caused many in the industry troubles on getting home.

Ok also to address this complaint I have 100% trust in Intertops and I know they are not rigging this casino(another thread on this forum an expert explained it is nearly impossible for this to be done in these days of iGaming). At times players have a bad day and they scream foul, when what they should do is take a break from gambling.

I personally know the team at Intertops and I can say with no doubt in my mind that this is one of the most trustworthy casinos online. We all know that it comes down to trust and honor of the actual operator of the casino to prove if they are a safe place to play at and these guys here are above the top when it comes to trust and honor. Don't forget who stood by you USA players when MG turned their backs!

Anyway thread titles like this one is not fair IMO.
 
Links please!


RTG - what else! :p

KK


Come on KK you have posted in most of them! :p
I am sure you can find them if you really want to. ;)

To Intertops.

I asked you specifically for the setting of the RTP of each of the slots at the time I played. Unfortunately that request was ignored.

Could you now share with me and the forum the RTP setting on each of the slots I played during sessions where my return on deposit was below 80%?

Are you stating publicly that at no time were any of your slots set at less than 93% during my play?

Are you stating publicly that there is no form of weighting used to alter the RTP of these slots?

You say a sample size of a few Thousand spins is too small show that the RTP/variance is changed in that sample or that the RTP was at any time below 93%. I beg to differ.

Let's have the reel stop data for reel 1 on Ronin then graph the Ronin symbol frequency next to the expected frequency of this symbol.

Let's do the same with MisterMoney and the white diamiond symbol.

Let's do the same with Cleopatra's Gold with the Wild and Pyramid symbols

Let's also graph the expected hit/win frequency(variance) alongside my hit frequency. (this is very important as it will clearly show any anomalies)

Let's do all this on the reelstrips set at 93%

Now let's see just how far outside expected variance my results are and look for anomalous data.
Hey, maybe you just have a faulty RNG.

I think by providing the above and appropriate play logs you have the chance to clearly dismiss my claim that your slots are rigged or at times set to such a low RTP that the player has little to no chance of winning which is tantamount to rigged.
That seems fair. Let's base this on pure statistical analysis of the data.

Thank you.
 
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@Rusty:

I have read old post of yours(I have been reading very lot of old threads here to catch up) and your knowledge is far beyond the average of the readers here.

When you write "this casino has rigged slots" most of the readers think that you are just another loser.

Unfortunately many post begins with either "Holy Underwear Casino stole my money" or "Magic Foot Casino is rigged".

Can you give us more information about the rigged games?

I am always interested to read about how we can determine how the slot machine is loose or tight.

To suddenly see that the wild symbol on reel two hasn´t been seen for 50 spins.. When it´s infact according to mathematics is there at least every third spin is interesting to me.

What software do they have at Intertops?

Yes you are right that posts simply remarking on losing sessions are easily dismissed. Unfortunately I don't have the time for due diligence anymore but hopefully my post above is a little more substantive in that regard.
I should not post when I don't have the time but sometimes you just feel they should not get away with it.

Whether the slots are loose or tight should become apparent fairly quickly but of course you need to deposit to find that out.:p
KK gives some very valid strategy and playing styles on his site and different slots and platforms have different quirks.
Nothing is cut and dry but as a casino may have different slots set at different RTP and they all maintain a random element but as a general rule for RTG if the scatter symbols are fairly infrequent or the wild symbols on reel 1 and 2 are then it is time to sigh.:p
Also if you receive a very poor bonus round don't assume the next one must be better - when a slot sucks it keeps sucking (just another of those amazing anomalies that the stock sample size too small attempts to fix)

i agree:
after reading several older posts of yours (very interesting!)
i'd also be inclined to have you elaborate on this.
nevermind the possible people that might "try" and discourage you from being more informative: they can only succeed if you give a damn :)
i never think its pointless to share info like that:
just make sure to stay correct, for forum policy's sake.
say: im led to believe..., ...because i observed following,...correct me if im wrong etc.

No, you are completely correct and we should always use moderate language even when we have strong evidence to back our claims.
It is difficult to stay emotionally detached when you know certain Casinos are cheating their players and some forum members who have the morality and integrity of a killer virus will do and say anything to protect their income.

and yes good casinos and affiliates do still exist but the infestation is almost out of control.

People who are neutral should ask the motives of those, such as I, that say such and such a casino is tight or such and such a software plays a certain way but even more importantly they should question the motives of those who seek to deny or besmirch in the face of facts.

A Casinos motive for denial is perfectly obvious.
Others who make money in the industry may well have a bias.
Losing players may well have a bias.

All you can do is keep an open mind and decide if what is stated is reproduced in the real world for you.
Don't listen to the debunkers unless they are supplying evidence and data. 99/100 they will only try to discredit the poster as that is all they have.
If they are supplying data consider the source and if it is independent.
And always, always remember the Casinos are to all intents and purpose unregulated and you are ultimately relying on their good will only for a fair game.
Yeah, makes you think doesn't it?
 
Hi Rusty,

That's annoying. I play online slots at Winaday.com. I've never had a problem there. Also, FYI, they have a responsive support staff too.
 
Not sure if this thread is even about Intertops anymore since it has been so derailed now but I just wanted to explain that the rep has just recently made it back home from a conference. The mess in Europe with the ash cloud has caused many in the industry troubles on getting home.

Ok also to address this complaint I have 100% trust in Intertops and I know they are not rigging this casino(another thread on this forum an expert explained it is nearly impossible for this to be done in these days of iGaming). At times players have a bad day and they scream foul, when what they should do is take a break from gambling.

I personally know the team at Intertops and I can say with no doubt in my mind that this is one of the most trustworthy casinos online. We all know that it comes down to trust and honor of the actual operator of the casino to prove if they are a safe place to play at and these guys here are above the top when it comes to trust and honor. Don't forget who stood by you USA players when MG turned their backs!

Anyway thread titles like this one is not fair IMO.
I have to agree with Bonustreak. The operators of Intertops are some of the most honest people in the business. I don't think this is an Intertops issue - it's a software issue.

I'll point the reps into the direction of this thread, and maybe get some answers for Rusty's question. As Bonustreak mentioned, when this thread was going full speed - the operators were stuck in Amsterdam.
 
I have to agree with Bonustreak. The operators of Intertops are some of the most honest people in the business. I don't think this is an Intertops issue - it's a software issue.

I'll point the reps into the direction of this thread, and maybe get some answers for Rusty's question. As Bonustreak mentioned, when this thread was going full speed - the operators were stuck in Amsterdam.

They have already been here and gone in Post #10. I would like to hear them address my suggestion to them in Post #11 of supplying Rusty with his life time player logs there as well since they stated in Post #10 that his sample size was too small to make a determination....
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They have already been here and gone in Post #10. I would like to hear them address my suggestion to them in Post #11 of supplying Rusty with his life time player logs there as well since they stated in Post #10 that his sample size was too small to make a determination....
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The sample size won't be more than a few Thousand spins Rob as I rarely played there because of the poor returns.
I have been ahead on 1 deposit in the past but my contention is that the RTP is set well below 90% at times which is why successive deposits on the same date bare similar results.
What I am really interested in is the data for the reel stops and bonus features as I believe the software is weighted and so this data is strongly tied into the RTP/variance.

Tell me what the weighting is for the bonus round on Loose Caboose for example and how it differs with a change of RTP.
Graph the frequency of small returns (say x2 bet and less) against expected frequency at 93%)
Do the same with wild symbol frequency for Reel 1 on the slots I suggest.
Cleopatra's Gold, Ronin, Mr Money.

My overall RTP will quite low but that is only part of the story and the real juice is in the data I have requested.
 
I have to agree with Bonustreak. The operators of Intertops are some of the most honest people in the business. I don't think this is an Intertops issue - it's a software issue.

I'll point the reps into the direction of this thread, and maybe get some answers for Rusty's question. As Bonustreak mentioned, when this thread was going full speed - the operators were stuck in Amsterdam.

It is certainly a software issue but it is also an Intertops issue as they no doubt set the RTP of their slots.
If they are honest then that is great because it means they will get the data I have requested (see reply to Rob and previous posts) and we can have a frank and open discussion about what constitutes a fair game and a rigged slot. That has to be in an honest Casinos interests.

Maybe they can be the operator to break the silence about how the slots really work and we can start moving forward.
My sample size at Intertops may be relatively small but I believe still significant - my sample size over all RTG is substantial and the sample size of all RTG players on this forum must be huge. As long as we stick to real world results and discuss them properly I will be attentive and respectful.
 
It is certainly a software issue but it is also an Intertops issue as they no doubt set the RTP of their slots.
If they are honest then that is great because it means they will get the data I have requested (see reply to Rob and previous posts) and we can have a frank and open discussion about what constitutes a fair game and a rigged slot. That has to be in an honest Casinos interests.

Maybe they can be the operator to break the silence about how the slots really work and we can start moving forward.
My sample size at Intertops may be relatively small but I believe still significant - my sample size over all RTG is substantial and the sample size of all RTG players on this forum must be huge. As long as we stick to real world results and discuss them properly I will be attentive and respectful.
They may have the ability to select one of three RTPs - it doesn't mean they do it. A few of the operators here have never touched this - they leave it at the default setting. I'm not sure about Intertops - I can't speak for them.

Player logs have to be requested from RTG. I don't know why RTG does this, but this is on my wish list to have changed. :p Normally the casino contacts RTG and then RTG gets back to them with the logs within a couple of weeks. That's my experience.
 
They may have the ability to select one of three RTPs - it doesn't mean they do it. A few of the operators here have never touched this - they leave it at the default setting. I'm not sure about Intertops - I can't speak for them.

Player logs have to be requested from RTG. I don't know why RTG does this, but this is on my wish list to have changed. :p Normally the casino contacts RTG and then RTG gets back to them with the logs within a couple of weeks. That's my experience.

I have always got my logs pretty swiftly (within a week), when at MG you have to wait for months.
 

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