Transparency In Published Expected Returns (By Game)

[Simmo!]

Some of you may have been reading this recent thread on game payouts and the potential for changes to be made at an operator level in individual game returns. This is just a preliminary poll to see if the general concensus reflects the feeling that the expected returns of individual games should be published to players in the same, or similar, way to how Wagerworks do it in order to establish an extra level of trust between operators and players in our industry.


Important: Although publically this is an anonymous poll, it has been set up to allow the administrators and moderators to see who voted for which option.

[KasinoKing]

No, not in a similar way to WagerWorks or Rival - it should be on the main playing screen, not tucked away at the back of some "rule" page.
Wouldn't it be fantastic if all softwares were forced to do this, then we'd really see some RTG operators squirm!

KK

[Simmo!]

Wouldn't it be fantastic if all softwares were forced to do this, then we'd really see some RTG operators squirm!

That highlights the biggest issue with the idea of implementing ER information. Although clearly it would benefit players, it could benefit (some) software providers and some operators, it does create a degree of inequality which at present is only "perceived" and having it open won't suit everyone.

[4 of a kind]

I understand what the point of this survey is, and would expect nothing less then 100% in favor of posting returns.

B&M's presently publish monthly all casinos and returns for all the different size slot machines. Yet, when comparing online to B&M's, all online games including table games are actually all slot machines when played online.

While B&M's already post this information it's usually done to lure new players to their casino and hopefully the new player likes the casino and find's a new home. Hard core slot players will follow the best offers with no loyalty to any casino. We also understand that slot players account for most of all casino's income, but land based casinos also offer much more for the gambler then just slot play. I for one enjoy the Taj in AC and treatment I get and could care less about the slots returns.

Online casinos usually offer nothing more then one ridicules bonus more ridicules then another one.

So I think my point is if somehow you were able to get online casinos to post all their returns on all games, they would all be forced to see what the competition is doing and eventually all be the same.

It's not about getting a room and making a weekend of it, it's just about the click of a mouse. Online I could visit 20 casinos in one hour if I wanted.

Although I love the effort of trying to get online to be more legit, I don't see it in anyway possible. Regulation from government is probably the only way this could come about.

[jetset]

That highlights the biggest issue with the idea of implementing ER information. Although clearly it would benefit players, it could benefit (some) software providers and some operators, it does create a degree of inequality which at present is only "perceived" and having it open won't suit everyone.

I think that's fair comment, and I am curious whether players are generally more likely to be influenced by rewards like SUBs or loyalty incentives, or payout percentages (for clarity I'm assuming that's what we're talking about on each individual game here?).

One would think that publishing this sort of information would encourage more competition for the obvious reason that it may spur laggards to try and match more closely the companies offering the best returns.

As Simmo comments above, that could create resistance in some quarters.

Because industry regulation is so fragmented and patchy, there are probably few jurisdictions that would feel sufficiently motivated to enforce such a requirement, meaning that it would be driven mainly by market forces.

The incentive for 'top' operators would presumably be the chance to get more players at the expense of those with weaker returns, but if some/many operators refused to play ball how would the player be able to make an accurate and meaningful comparison?

And would a refusal to take part in such a scheme motivate players to stop playing at a non-participant?

Finally, would such a requirement direct the flow of inexperienced and new gamblers to operators with the best returns, or would the appeal of an enticing SUB supervene?

[jetset]

Another (belated) thought: What is the incentive for software providers to cooperate in this scenario? Will they be persuaded by their licensees to assist, because their involvement would appear necessary here?

[silcnlayc]

jetset: Another (belated) thought: What is the incentive for software providers to cooperate in this scenario? Will they be persuaded by their licensees to assist, because their involvement would appear necessary here?

None in my opinion...until the players/affiliates/webmasters all come together and demand this..and that isn't going to happen, once again IMO..Too many in the know have income from these places..which leaves the little guy on their own..Just my thoughts...

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[Casinomeister]

Another (belated) thought: What is the incentive for software providers to cooperate in this scenario? Will they be persuaded by their licensees to assist, because their involvement would appear necessary here?

Actually, I don't see it as much of an issue. It'd probably be just a technological issue instead of a major business decision. Quite a number of casinos publish expected returns of their games - but it's usually an overall total - not specific games.

None in my opinion...until the players/affiliates/webmasters all come together and demand this..and that isn't going to happen, once again IMO..Too many in the know have income from these places..which leaves the little guy on their own..Just my thoughts...

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I don't think it's going to take a massive cyber movement to convince the right people to look into this. It should not be looked upon as a negative thing - actually, I think it's a cool idea that would benefit both player and operator.

[Mavin1]

Actually, I don't see it as much of an issue. It'd probably be just a technological issue instead of a major business decision. QUite a number of casinos publish expected returns of their games - but it's usually an overall total - not specific games.

I don't think it's going to take a massive cyber movement to convince the right people to look into this. It should not be looked upon as a negative thing - actually, I think it's a cool idea that would benefit both player and operator.

Yes! Am I seeing a light at the end of the tunnel? Maybe, just maybe........

[Eliot Jacobson]

B&M's presently publish monthly all casinos and returns for all the different size slot machines.

Can you please point me to one of these publications.

Thanks.

--Eliot