Hmm, No Bonuses anymore with Neteller/Moneybookers at Rushmore Group

[deucebag]

I got the wired money today, but the amount (in my local currency) was significantly lower that it would have been if it had been transfered to neteller and then wired from neteller to my bankaccount. (And neteller is not cheap when it comes to fees and conversion rates!)

I do not know what fees and/or conversions that have eaten up the withdrawal (it may be my local bank, or somewhere else on the way to my bank account), but I will for sure never use bankwire agan when withdrawing from an RTG casino (and not take bonuses that forces me to use this option).

My bank wires from Rushmore have been in USD and have been exchanged by my bank at their rate, which is way better than the other alternatives. You should get a statement from your bank stating the incoming amount in USD, the exchange rate applied, and whether any fees have been deducted by your bank.

For larger amounts I have found that wire transfer is a far less expensive method of withdrawing, but for small amounts it can be expensive if you have to eat the incoming international wire fee at your bank.

[vinylweatherman]

It is common knowledge that credit/debit card deposits are handled by third party processors. The casinos don't see this money for months. They probably have quicker access to player funds through Neteller/Moneybookers.

As for why Rushmore doesn't allow their best bonuses for Neteller/Moneybookers depositors, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that this is because they make less money/lose off these players as a group, likely because what is commonly known as "fraudsters" tend to use these deposit methods.

If you don't like it, vote with your money and play elsewhere.

Would these be the same processors they use to pay players. If so, even though the casino might not see the money, it is there for their processor to send out.

A program on TV about small businesses said that card money goes directly into their business account, subject to a clearance period. This was said to be 5 days, and unfair. Large businesses can get same day clearance of monies spent from cards. 2 months seems far too long for a business to see money from card transactions, and such a lag could seriously damage a casino's ability to pay withdrawals, even by wire or cheque, if the money really was unavailable for this time.


Fraud from verified Neteller accounts is harder than from card deposits. The ID checks used by Neteller involve photo ID & utility bill. They also verify your BANK account, and that it is yours. Only then will they grant you an extended account. They will also allow casinos to check back with them that their player has indeed passed verification with Neteller, so casinos have an ADDITIONAL security check that is not available to them for card depositors.

Credit card companies merely check the ID details supplied against the electoral roll & credit reference agencies. They do NOT verify that the person applying is the owner of that ID by asking for documents to be sent. They require only a signed copy of the credit agreement to be returned, and unless they have other dealings with that person, have no way to verify the signiature. They assume access to the postal address is sufficient verification to add to the electronic checks.

It is easy to use a credit card to defraud a casino by reneging on a bet (chargeback), in addition to using stolen ID to get credit, or using someone else's card (something casinos CAN electronically check for if they suspect something).

If they REALLY believe Neteller is a hotbed of fraudsters, it is something they should be taking up with THEM, or even their regulator, the UK FSA.

[pingpong]

As for why Rushmore doesn't allow their best bonuses for Neteller/Moneybookers depositors, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that this is because they make less money/lose off these players as a group, likely because what is commonly known as "fraudsters" tend to use these deposit methods.

Because they make less money? Probably. But I do not think there is evidence showing that neteller/moneybooker-users are more likely to commit fraud. Its super-easy to both get and lose (e.g. theft) a creditcard - thats not the case with e-wallets.

[slotheadlizard]

I just skimmed the thread so forgive me if I missed this. It now seems that you can't get bonuses using QT. I just deposited as normal on weekends and noticed after I started playing that the bonus was not granted. I inquired with chat for an explanation.

One thing I was told is that you should deposit then request a bonus, is that correct. I have never done this, I just put in a code, then the terms show up.
I'm thankful that is was still granted. Although I went to chat (the first guy never came back) I did start playing before noticing.

Jon: Hi and welcome. How can I help you?
xxx[/B]: Hi Jon, I was on chat with Bill for a really long time, I think he forgot about me. I requested a bonus with my last deposit. It gave me the allowed games, but the slot bonus never showed up. I was just wondering what happened. Thanks
Jon: One moment please, I'm just checking your account.
xxx: ok
Jon: Which bonus was it that you requested?
xxx: it was wishbone2.1, it says requested in my history, but nothing else.
Jon: Yeah, I see that. Just wanted to double check that you are referring to that one.
Jon: I see that you have already played the deposit.
xxx: Yes, as I said, I was just wondering why it wasn't granted?
Jon: I can go ahead and give the bonus money to you that would have been added to your deposit had the coupon redeemed properly
Jon: I'm not exactly sure. It may be because you requested it before actually depositing.
xxx: OK, it has the regular 20x playthough on dep plus bonus right?
Jon: It is usually better to request them after you deposit and before you start to play
Jon: correct\
xxx: I always request befor depositing, its how you have to do it.
xxx: OK
Jon: so i will add that right now. one moment please
xxx: OK
Jon: I'm sorry. I just realized why the bonus did not redeem.
xxx: OK
Jon: The casino is no longer able to put bonuses on deposits made through neteller.
Jon: I will go ahead and add this bonus to the account now, but just so you know in the future.
xxx: I don't have neteller. i used QuickTender, I'm in the USA
Jon: QuickTender, yes. Sorry, my mistake
xxx: So you can't use QT anymore?
Jon: You can deposit with them, but not redeem bonus on those deposits.
xxx: OH
xxx: Is that in the TCs?
Jon: It is a relatively new change, and I'm not sure if it is on the website, to be honest.
xxx: OK, no problem. I'll know next time to use CC
Jon: Great. Just so that you are aware
Jon: I'm adding it now
xxx: OK, thanks
info: Your chat transcript will be sent to xxx at the end of your chat.
Jon: all set Elizabeth
xxx: Thanks, have a good day
Jon: You're welcome. Thank you, you too

[Louise]

I just skimmed the thread so forgive me if I missed this. It now seems that you can't get bonuses using QT. I just deposited as normal on weekends and noticed after I started playing that the bonus was not granted. I inquired with chat for an explanation.

One thing I was told is that you should deposit then request a bonus, is that correct. I have never done this, I just put in a code, then the terms show up.
I'm thankful that is was still granted. Although I went to chat (the first guy never came back) I did start playing before noticing.

Jon: Hi and welcome. How can I help you?
xxx[/B]: Hi Jon, I was on chat with Bill for a really long time, I think he forgot about me. I requested a bonus with my last deposit. It gave me the allowed games, but the slot bonus never showed up. I was just wondering what happened. Thanks
Jon: One moment please, I'm just checking your account.
xxx: ok
Jon: Which bonus was it that you requested?
xxx: it was wishbone2.1, it says requested in my history, but nothing else.
Jon: Yeah, I see that. Just wanted to double check that you are referring to that one.
Jon: I see that you have already played the deposit.
xxx: Yes, as I said, I was just wondering why it wasn't granted?
Jon: I can go ahead and give the bonus money to you that would have been added to your deposit had the coupon redeemed properly
Jon: I'm not exactly sure. It may be because you requested it before actually depositing.
xxx: OK, it has the regular 20x playthough on dep plus bonus right?
Jon: It is usually better to request them after you deposit and before you start to play
Jon: correct\
xxx: I always request befor depositing, its how you have to do it.
xxx: OK
Jon: so i will add that right now. one moment please
xxx: OK
Jon: I'm sorry. I just realized why the bonus did not redeem.
xxx: OK
Jon: The casino is no longer able to put bonuses on deposits made through neteller.
Jon: I will go ahead and add this bonus to the account now, but just so you know in the future.
xxx: I don't have neteller. i used QuickTender, I'm in the USA
Jon: QuickTender, yes. Sorry, my mistake
xxx: So you can't use QT anymore?
Jon: You can deposit with them, but not redeem bonus on those deposits.
xxx: OH
xxx: Is that in the TCs?
Jon: It is a relatively new change, and I'm not sure if it is on the website, to be honest.
xxx: OK, no problem. I'll know next time to use CC
Jon: Great. Just so that you are aware
Jon: I'm adding it now
xxx: OK, thanks
info: Your chat transcript will be sent to xxx at the end of your chat.
Jon: all set Elizabeth
xxx: Thanks, have a good day
Jon: You're welcome. Thank you, you too

I apologize for the incorrect information you have received.

All bonuses we offer can be redeemed if using UseMyWallet/Quicktender.

Kind regards,

Louise
Rushmore, Cherry Red & Slots Oasis Rep.

[kingkong098]

Apologies in advance for ressurecting a semi old thread but I didnt think this warranted starting a new one.

I went to deposit at Rushmore today and discovered they have now removed Click2Pay as an eligible deposit method for receiveing bonuses.

Click2Pay does not allow P2P transfers and therefore is not useful for bonus abusers.

Why the change Louise?

[vinylweatherman]

Apologies in advance for ressurecting a semi old thread but I didnt think this warranted starting a new one.

I went to deposit at Rushmore today and discovered they have now removed Click2Pay as an eligible deposit method for receiveing bonuses.

Click2Pay does not allow P2P transfers and therefore is not useful for bonus abusers.

Why the change Louise?

THIS is why I was scathing of the advice to "just use a different deposit method". I suggested that this would simply mean these alternatives will be bonus banned as well, but the player would be fuming because they had gone to all the trouble to secure and fund an alternative deposit method.

You can still have bonuses with Quicktender FOR NOW, but the management are very secretive about WTF is going on, so there can be no guarantee that players will come along one weekend, deposit via Quicktender, and find THIS method bonus banned too. What is even WORSE is that you only find out AFTER you have deposited. The norm for RTG is to enter the code first, and then if you don't like the terms, you don't follow through with a deposit, and get CS to cancel the coupon.

I for one am NOT going to engage in this exercise of "chasing my tail" to find an alternative deposit method that Rushmore likes one week, but might not the next.

I have stuck with my usual, Neteller. Total deposits this week have been over £10K, and Rushmore have seen NONE of this. They WOULD have seen some after reinstatement of accredited status, even some WITHOUT necessarily claiming a bonus, probably to try these fancy "feature guarantee" slots that have been talked about.

Rushmore is now bottom of the pile for me, and is not even installed on my PC any longer.

When I start reinstalling after my major update, iNetbet is probably going to be the first RTG I try out. My planned update is really down to Microgaming though, trying to see if I can get things running better with them first, since MOST MGS casinos positively WELCOME my Neteller deposits, some even giving EXTRA, simply for choosing Neteller over the alternatives.

From Louise's post

All bonuses we offer can be redeemed if using UseMyWallet/Quicktender.

This makes me think the "secret agenda" is to freeze out the EU and much of the rest of the world, and concentrate on the US/Canadian market, since these two options are no different to Neteller, Click2Pay, and Moneybookers, except that they are exclusive to the US/Canadian market, and generally unavailable to players elsewhere.

When Rushmore first launched, this WAS directed at the US/Canadian market, and there was little support for deposit options for players outside these regions. These other deposit options were added later, after requests by players.

The best option for players outside the Us/Canada is to look for a more globally focussed RTG casino, perhaps Club Euro (for the EU), or iNetBet. There are also quite a few newer RTG casinos on the accredited list, and their terms should be checked for any "anti-Neteller" attitudes, and if none found, tried out.

Neteller have recently discontinued their old P2P money transfer system, in favour of a new "secure money transfer" alternative. Despite rumour though, Rushmore have NEVER said that this had ANYTHING to do with the decision to drop Neteller from bonuses, and since Click2Pay never had this to start with, seems to suggest we are still dealing with an unknown agenda.

Players NEED to know what is going on, since it is PLAYERS that are depositing real money, and would have to PLAN AHEAD to get a deposit method that does NOT cause problems for the casinos they are playing at.

I have contacted Neteller VIP about this issue with their merchants a few times, and they say they have no idea what is going on, but will investigate. None of these "investigations" have gone further than the waste paper basket though, so their DOES seem to be something going on "under the bonnet" that both casinos and Neteller would rather keep from players.

[Pinababy69]

This makes me think the "secret agenda" is to freeze out the EU and much of the rest of the world, and concentrate on the US/Canadian market, since these two options are no different to Neteller, Click2Pay, and Moneybookers, except that they are exclusive to the US/Canadian market, and generally unavailable to players elsewhere.

When Rushmore first launched, this WAS directed at the US/Canadian market, and there was little support for deposit options for players outside these regions. These other deposit options were added later, after requests by players.

Vinyl, I wish you'd stop grouping the Canadian players in with the US players. We don't use QT here in Canada...I personally use Moneybookers. And I know of some players who use Click2Pay, and perhaps EcoCard (which is where QT originally sprung from). We've even got access to UKash here in Canada now. Pretty much all the same options as yourself, with the exception of Neteller.

But if Rushmore were trying to focus on the CDN market at all, they would allow the MB/Click2Pay bonuses. I agree 100% with the rest of your post....except it "seems" that they are trying to squeeze out everyone except the US.

Just wanted to clarify that we really don't have the depositing/withdrawing problems here in Canada, that the US has. And none of the legal limitations re: banking (that I know of anyway). We are not the 51st state.

[vinylweatherman]

Vinyl, I wish you'd stop grouping the Canadian players in with the US players. We don't use QT here in Canada...I personally use Moneybookers. And I know of some players who use Click2Pay, and perhaps EcoCard (which is where QT originally sprung from). We've even got access to UKash here in Canada now. Pretty much all the same options as yourself, with the exception of Neteller.

But if Rushmore were trying to focus on the CDN market at all, they would allow the MB/Click2Pay bonuses. I agree 100% with the rest of your post....except it "seems" that they are trying to squeeze out everyone except the US.

Just wanted to clarify that we really don't have the depositing/withdrawing problems here in Canada, that the US has. And none of the legal limitations re: banking (that I know of anyway). We are not the 51st state.

It's very hard to grasp this, because so many casinos seem to be lumping Canadian players in with the US when it comes to policies. Many softwares that pulled out of the US alltogether also pulled out of Canada - as though it WERE the 51st state.

Neteller ALSO pulled out of Canada, despite the fact that it is now based in the Isle of Man.

Rushmore have now removed Click2Pay (as bonus eligible), which Canadians can still use, and I wonder whether Moneybookers is next.

It seems the webwallets they have NOT added to the bonus ban list, and that Louise has said clearly are STILL eligible, are narrowly focussed on the US market alone.

This could be VERY dangerous business wise, since they are making non-US players feel unwelcome because they cannot participate so freely as the US players.

The recent Mastercard crackdown could indicate a much tougher line on US players funding their online gambling, and although it won't affect the likes of Quicktender itself, it WILL make it harder for US players to fund their QT accounts. IF the crackdown succeeds in suddenly choking off almost all US players' deposit options, they could find themselves with a business crisis, and a sudden need to attract non-US players, and they will also have to overcome the reluctance of those non-US players recently snubbed in favour of the US market by their creeping deposit method restrictions for promotional eligibility.

[Pinababy69]

It's very hard to grasp this, because so many casinos seem to be lumping Canadian players in with the US when it comes to policies. Many softwares that pulled out of the US alltogether also pulled out of Canada - as though it WERE the 51st state.

Neteller ALSO pulled out of Canada, despite the fact that it is now based in the Isle of Man.

Rushmore have now removed Click2Pay (as bonus eligible), which Canadians can still use, and I wonder whether Moneybookers is next.

It seems the webwallets they have NOT added to the bonus ban list, and that Louise has said clearly are STILL eligible, are narrowly focussed on the US market alone.

This could be VERY dangerous business wise, since they are making non-US players feel unwelcome because they cannot participate so freely as the US players.

The recent Mastercard crackdown could indicate a much tougher line on US players funding their online gambling, and although it won't affect the likes of Quicktender itself, it WILL make it harder for US players to fund their QT accounts. IF the crackdown succeeds in suddenly choking off almost all US players' deposit options, they could find themselves with a business crisis, and a sudden need to attract non-US players, and they will also have to overcome the reluctance of those non-US players recently snubbed in favour of the US market by their creeping deposit method restrictions for promotional eligibility.

I "think" they already do disallow Moneybookers bonuses....MB, Neteller and now Click2Pay as well. You are spot on the money I think. They've created a business model which tries to cater to US players (which is a good thing for players).....but if the recent CC difficulties do indeed end up restricting deposits to even QT...then they will be in a heap of financial trouble. It seems the only depositing method now eligible for bonuses is QT...and that is solely a US option. Whether they intended to or not...they have driven away alot of customers from other countries.

If I wanted to play at an RTG, and DID want to take a bonus...why would I play here...when I can go to Inetbet, ClubWorld or even the new Lock Casino?

Re: software providers dropping out of Canada. I guess the major ones are Rival and Wagerworks...oh, and the English Harbour software (is that Vegas Tech?). I would like the option of WW, but don't care about Rival or the others. But we still have RTG, Crypto, Playtech and most importantly....ALL of the MG operations available to us. As long as that stays the same, I'm a happy camper.