Hmm, No Bonuses anymore with Neteller/Moneybookers at Rushmore Group

[vinylweatherman]

I've read about the past problems with this group. I can say one thing "Slotster is right about this group!"

I wonder what "new rule" will come next. For some players, a cheque is NOT such a problem, so they will have to find another way to make it not worth the bother of using cards at the weekend just for the bonus, such as insisting ONLY on $25 bank wires, or ONLY "courier" cheques for an exorbitant fee.

There is ALREADY the problem of having to provide additional documentation once a card is used, an image of back & front of the card, and often a signed deposit declaration form.

[pingpong]

Thanks for the input. Needless to say that I agree with you, vinyl. I do not know the reasons behind this rule, and if it really is to avoid fraud like support told me....but my two cents on this issue is that they should have made the rule more visible. I felt like it was kind of hidden in the general TC. I would of course not have taken the bonus if I knew that the withdrawal options were that limited.

[vinylweatherman]

Thanks for the input. Needless to say that I agree with you, vinyl. I do not know the reasons behind this rule, and if it really is to avoid fraud like support told me....but my two cents on this issue is that they should have made the rule more visible. I felt like it was kind of hidden in the general TC. I would of course not have taken the bonus if I knew that the withdrawal options were that limited.

Absolute bullshit!


IF a player has been depositing regularly with Neteller, and changes to a card BECAUSE the casino introduced a rule for the weekend that MADE them do this, then there is NO issue with returning that player's winnings back to their already established Neteller account once they have received the appropriate documentation for the card.


Sending a bank wire, or a cheque, will NOT MAKE A DIFFERENCE if it turns out the card deposit was fraudulent, since the player has STILL been paid.

MOST casinos will certainly seek to returnj deposits to their source, but this is more to do with fees, than with fraud, since they do ID checks on players before paying out.

Rushmore THEMSELVES introduced this rule KNOWING it would INCREASE deposits by card, so they CAN'T have seen card fraud as a major worry, otherwise they would NOT have introduced a rule that INCREASED their exposure to card deposits by dis-incentivising deposits made by other means.

It IS easier for a player to "screw over" a casino by using a credit card than a wallet. Credit Cards permit "chargebacks", even if the player simply "didn't like the gameplay", wallets do NOT (except where there is proven fraud involved, and even this is not a certainty).

This week, I received the regular promo email from Vegas Partners, reminding me that Neteller was positively ENCOURAGED to the extent that I get an EXTRA 15% on top of the usual offer I was offered. Card deposits get NOTHING extra.

[footdr]

I have been playing there for several years, no matter how I deposited I made withdrawl to my ewallet. I recently won 400.00 and they wouldn't send cashin to QT as I "won on money deposited via credit card". Of course it doesn't matter how much I deposited and lost via QT.

I am never playing there again as I really believe that QT isn't accepting money from them as there is no reason for them to consider paying QT when deposit via credit card to be prohibited per their "new fraud policy".

Using their reasoning, the only non-fraud method of payment would be to pay back the credit card used for deposit.

They are full of it! and I say "take a hike".

[deucebag]

You can not withdraw via the following means if a deposit with credit card has generated the winnings: Moneybookers, Neteller, EcoCard, eWalletXpress, Click2Pay and UseMyWallet. Further E-wallet solutions may also be excluded at Rushmore Casino's discretion

And they continued: "If you would like to proceed to withdraw your winnings, you must request a wire transfer or bank draft check (for amounts over US$250 only)."

As check isnt a very practically option in Norway (noone uses it here, I am not even sure if my local bank would know how to cash it in), I had to ask for a bank wire (and paying the 25 dollar fee). I am still waiting on it, I am not sure when/if it will hit my account.

I have withdrawn from Rushmore by wire transfer before, and I don't recall any fee. They even covered the fee from my bank for receiving an international wire. It takes a little longer than ewallet withdrawal though.

[pingpong]

I have withdrawn from Rushmore by wire transfer before, and I don't recall any fee. They even covered the fee from my bank for receiving an international wire. It takes a little longer than ewallet withdrawal though.

Yepp, there's a fee of 25 dollars if the bank wire is below 250 dollars. From Rushmores FAQ:

Q. How can I withdraw my winnings?
A. We can send you your winnings in one of the following ways:
•Wire transfer - Time frame for delivery is 6-10 working days. There is a fee of $25 dollars if the amount of the withdrawal is lower than $250 charge. The money is wired directly to your bank account.
•Checks/Banker's draft - This option is only available to withdrawals of $250 and above. Time frame is about 6-10 working days and can be tracked. No fee involved. Checks must be signed for upon delivery, therefore we are unable to send checks to a PO box address.

Of course, they may not enforce the fee, I will not know that before I receive the money.

As for the fraud as reason behind the rule, I can only paste and copy what they told me per email:

"Dear XX,

Yes, we have recently refined our fraud and withdrawal policies. Thank you for you understanding."

[vinylweatherman]

I have just been called by my Neteller VIP manager (or more likely the VIP desk).

They were after feedback, & they got some


I raised this issue with her. It has two strands to it.

1) Discrimination in provision of service depending on deposit method used. Rushmore have made this a EXCLUSION specifically against Neteller & Moneybookers, rather than having a variety of inducements for different methods.

2) Refusal to allow players to withdraw back to a VERIFIED Neteller account.



1) She speculated that merchants would rather receive their money "directly", rather than through the "Neteller system".
This implies there is a difference between "Neteller money", and "Card money" when it is in the hands of the merchant.

As a player, the obvious difference between "Neteller money", and "normal money" is where it resides. Card deposits go DIRECTLY to the merchant's own business banking account, whereas "Neteller Money" merely moves from the player's Neteller account, to the Merchant's Neteller account.
The merchant has some restrictions on how they can use their "Neteller Money" (roughly the same as me). They can quickly use it to pay withdrawals back to Neteller, but CANNOT write a cheque on it, nor can they use it straight away to send a wire. The merchant would have to withdraw their "Neteller money" back to their bank before they could use it for these. Neteller will be charging fees for these movements.
If the merchant has too little in their Merchant Neteller account, they have to move money back into it.

2) Fraud? BOLLOCKS!!!!

It's down to the effects of 1).

Rushmore have told players to use cards to get the weekend bonus, so this is what players are doing. These players want winnings withdrawn back to their VERIFIED ewallet account (Verified, so no real fraud risk exists). However, because "everybody" is now depositing by card, money is LEAVING their ewallet merchant accounts, but is no longer being replaced to the same extent by deposits, so it keeps running empty, and they have to keep moving new money into it.

They get fed up with this, so introduce the new rule.

In by card, out by wire or cheque.

This makes things MUCH simpler. The card deposits go into their bank account, the wires and cheques can leave the same bank account. NO juggling of funds needed, they just need to ensure deposits exceed withdrawals + overheads.

They use "fraud prevention" as an excuse, because this is the one thing they NEVER have to explain in detail, and thus can use it as a bland "canned statement" to explain almost everything.

They don't give a flying Rat's arse that this SERIOUSLY inconveniences players, some to the extent that they cannot even receive their winnings because of problems with THEIR banks, and interpretations of local laws, along with banks' suspicion of these "odd looking cheques" that the processors seem to be sending out.

It can be a sign of a struggling operator, but could also be a sign of operator greed at the expence of customer service levels. They are forgetting that it is the CUSTOMER that pays their wages, and contributes towards their profit. If the service puts these customers off, and another provider offers something better, these customers will move. There is LESS customer loyalty in THIS industry than most others. It is MUCH easier to try a new casino, than it is to switch phone or energy provider.

[Nifty29]

They are forgetting that it is the CUSTOMER that pays their wages, and contributes towards their profit. If the service puts these customers off, and another provider offers something better, these customers will move. There is LESS customer loyalty in THIS industry than most others. It is MUCH easier to try a new casino, than it is to switch phone or energy provider.

An excellent point. The buffet is too well-stocked these days to hang around the stale sandwiches (if you get my gist)

[deucebag]

I have just been called by my Neteller VIP manager (or more likely the VIP desk).

They were after feedback, & they got some

It is common knowledge that credit/debit card deposits are handled by third party processors. The casinos don't see this money for months. They probably have quicker access to player funds through Neteller/Moneybookers.

As for why Rushmore doesn't allow their best bonuses for Neteller/Moneybookers depositors, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that this is because they make less money/lose off these players as a group, likely because what is commonly known as "fraudsters" tend to use these deposit methods.

If you don't like it, vote with your money and play elsewhere.

[pingpong]

I got the wired money today, but the amount (in my local currency) was significantly lower that it would have been if it had been transfered to neteller and then wired from neteller to my bankaccount. (And neteller is not cheap when it comes to fees and conversion rates!)

I do not know what fees and/or conversions that have eaten up the withdrawal (it may be my local bank, or somewhere else on the way to my bank account), but I will for sure never use bankwire agan when withdrawing from an RTG casino (and not take bonuses that forces me to use this option).