Hmm, No Bonuses anymore with Neteller/Moneybookers at Rushmore Group

[Louise]

Hi paulyt,

If you are using Click2Pay, you are still able to redeem the weekend bonuses

Regards,

Louise
Rushmore, Cherry Red & Slots Oasis Rep.

[vinylweatherman]

Originally Posted by Louise

Hi paulyt,

If you are using Click2Pay, you are still able to redeem the weekend bonuses

Regards,

Louise
Rushmore, Cherry Red & Slots Oasis Rep.

So what's the difference It's an eWallet, no different from Neteller or Moneybookers. Whatever the issue was with Neteller and Moneybookers, it will be THE SAME with Click2Pay.

Louise is on Vacation, so I don't expect a swift reply to this point, but we are STILL no further with getting an explanation for this decision. SOMEBODY at Rushmore actively made this decision, so there HAS to be a reason behind it. What's the BIG DEAL, and the SECRECY.

[spiderlegz]

Originally Posted by vinylweatherman

So what's the difference It's an eWallet, no different from Neteller or Moneybookers. Whatever the issue was with Neteller and Moneybookers, it will be THE SAME with Click2Pay.

Louise is on Vacation, so I don't expect a swift reply to this point, but we are STILL no further with getting an explanation for this decision. SOMEBODY at Rushmore actively made this decision, so there HAS to be a reason behind it. What's the BIG DEAL, and the SECRECY.

Player to player transfers I would guess (the lack of them). Actually Im almost 100% sure.

Edit: almost forgot to say that Rushmore has another rep, MichelleRush.

[vinylweatherman]

Originally Posted by spiderlegz

Player to player transfers I would guess (the lack of them). Actually Im almost 100% sure.

Edit: almost forgot to say that Rushmore has another rep, MichelleRush.

If this is so, no wonder there is such secrecy. Rushmore are NOT SUPPOSED TO KNOW whether any of their players are doing this, but a previous complaint has revealed that Moneybookers WILL pass this information on to the casino, but it is SUPPOSED to be done ONLY when FRAUD is suspected, and being investigated.
I believe casinos pass a list of players they suspect to the processor, who will say whether they are connected to each other, probably by making peer to peer transactions to each other. This may not necessarily be evidence of FRAUD, but is certainly evidnce of what casinos call "collusion", often referred to as a "fraud ring" by casinos when explaining what is going on. It is "fraud" in their eyes, since the players are acting together in a "professional" sense, rather than acting alone for "personal entertainment".

If Click2Pay don't offer peer to peer, it will NOT be used so much by "colluding" players as Neteller or Moneybookers.

Neteller and Moneybookers themselves will investigate what they might see as "abnormal" peer to peer transactions, such as money constantly being passed back & forth between the same group of customers.

[pingpong]

I have always used Neteller at Rushmore, but since I wanted to take advantage of the weekend bonus, I decided to deposit with my creditcard.

I won a little, finished the WR and asked for a withdrawal. Since they dont allow you to withdraw back to the creditcard used, I thought that my good old neteller account could be used. I was wrong.

When my withdrawal had been pending for two days, I got an e-mail that said that the funds were transfered back to my account. Support draw my attention to rule 13 in their General T & C:

You can not withdraw via the following means if a deposit with credit card has generated the winnings: Moneybookers, Neteller, EcoCard, eWalletXpress, Click2Pay and UseMyWallet. Further E-wallet solutions may also be excluded at Rushmore Casino's discretion

And they continued: "If you would like to proceed to withdraw your winnings, you must request a wire transfer or bank draft check (for amounts over US$250 only)."

As check isnt a very practically option in Norway (noone uses it here, I am not even sure if my local bank would know how to cash it in), I had to ask for a bank wire (and paying the 25 dollar fee). I am still waiting on it, I am not sure when/if it will hit my account.

Frankly, I had never heard of this new rule, excluding all webwallets when using creditcard (it wasnt in the bonus TC, just the general TC which I seldom read). Support told me that it was new and introduced to avoid fraud.

Since I have accepted the casino TCs, I am not gonne moan about this. But maybe the rushmore group could have included the term in the bonus TC, so that it would have been easier to find? What do you other players think?

[Nifty29]

Originally Posted by pingpong

You can not withdraw via the following means if a deposit with credit card has generated the winnings: Moneybookers, Neteller, EcoCard, eWalletXpress, Click2Pay and UseMyWallet. Further E-wallet solutions may also be excluded at Rushmore Casino's discretion

What an absolute crock.

If the player had ONLY ever deposited by credit card, then the above term is reasonable. However, if the player has used Neteller before they should ALWAYS be able to withdraw to that method. I cant remember any casino I play at invoking such a puzzling rule.

What's worse is that the player was almost 'forced' to deposit via credit card as a Neteller deposit wouldnt be eligible for the weekend promotion they wanted to claim! On top of that, they have the nerve to charge $25 for the wire - LMAO!

I am all for reasonable and sensible terms that protect the casino from fraud etc, but we are talking about a REGULAR PLAYER who has been ID'ed and deposited/withdrawn via Neteller previously.

IMO it breaches the CM Accreditation requirement that "The casino must not implement terms that can be construed as "unfair" towards the player."

[LonelyHearts]

I have a feeling. That more and more people are getting irrate with online casinos in general. Especially this group. Maybe most of us are just burnt out. But what else to do when you just sit in the house and wait on your number?

[AussieDave]

Originally Posted by mattsgame

I currently have a anz visa debit (don't like using the CC online) when ever i make a payment to a casino or neteller they charge me $9.99 and i think there conversion rate is wrong. last deposit to neteller was of $280us dollars and the bank had taken $368au surely the aus$ isn't that bad..

Hi Matt,

The AUD against the $US has been sitting high. Today it's at 1 AUD = 0.918US and has fluctuated between .89 and .91 for a couple of months. Why is this so when were apparently in the grips of a recession? Your guess is as good as mine

Like you I also use a debit visa (StGeorge).
From what I've been told casino/neteller deposits are treated similar to a cash advance - even though, unlike a CC, a debit card draws funds directly from your own money in your bank account. I used to use an ANZ visa debit but like you were getting hit with stupid fees. So I changed.

Although I still get hit with an currency exchange fee, I'm not getting extra fees that I was when using the ANZ debit visa.


Even with the 1.9% that Neteller tack on to your deposits (if your a NT VIP these are waived)thes would be the approx charges within 1 AUD or so:

1.9% NT deposit charge on $280US = $5.32

$280US = 304.724AUD (worked out on today's exchange rate of 1 AUD = 0.918864 USD

Total amount $310.044AUD

Being hit for an additional $57.956AUD by your bank is insane. I'd be calling up the banking ombudsman office in Melbourne and asking for the ANZ 1800 number for customer complaints.

I did this and bitch mighty hard. Ended up with a $300AUD goodwill payment ;-)



Cheers

Dave

[vinylweatherman]

Originally Posted by pingpong

I have always used Neteller at Rushmore, but since I wanted to take advantage of the weekend bonus, I decided to deposit with my creditcard.

I won a little, finished the WR and asked for a withdrawal. Since they dont allow you to withdraw back to the creditcard used, I thought that my good old neteller account could be used. I was wrong.

When my withdrawal had been pending for two days, I got an e-mail that said that the funds were transfered back to my account. Support draw my attention to rule 13 in their General T & C:

You can not withdraw via the following means if a deposit with credit card has generated the winnings: Moneybookers, Neteller, EcoCard, eWalletXpress, Click2Pay and UseMyWallet. Further E-wallet solutions may also be excluded at Rushmore Casino's discretion

And they continued: "If you would like to proceed to withdraw your winnings, you must request a wire transfer or bank draft check (for amounts over US$250 only)."

As check isnt a very practically option in Norway (noone uses it here, I am not even sure if my local bank would know how to cash it in), I had to ask for a bank wire (and paying the 25 dollar fee). I am still waiting on it, I am not sure when/if it will hit my account.

Frankly, I had never heard of this new rule, excluding all webwallets when using creditcard (it wasnt in the bonus TC, just the general TC which I seldom read). Support told me that it was new and introduced to avoid fraud.

Since I have accepted the casino TCs, I am not gonne moan about this. But maybe the rushmore group could have included the term in the bonus TC, so that it would have been easier to find? What do you other players think?

I PREDICTED this, and this new rule PROVES ME RIGHT!!!!

I suggested that the initial rule would simply mean that players who would normally deposit with Neteller, would switch to using their card purely as a means to qualify for the weekend bonus. Louise even implied that this is what players would have to do, by advertising to us that we could STILL use the weekend bonuses if we were willing to use our cards instead.

My prediction was that this would bring about the VERY problem that has just hit pingpong, that they would NOT be able to withdraw painlessly back to their ALREADY VERIFIED AND USED NETELLER ACCOUNT, but would be forced to take a cheque instead, because "we can't refund back to cards".

Rushmore have now DELIBERATELY thrown a spanner in the works to THWART those players who switch from Neteller to Credit card for their WEEKENDS so that they can use the bonuses by introducing the rule that has NO EFFECT WHATSOEVER against fraud from REGULAR players, where the casino ALREADY KNOW the Neteller account belings to the player, having taken deposits from, and paid out to, it before.

The INTENT behind the rule has now become CLEAR. It was NEVER about these wallets, it was about these PLAYERS. The INTENT was to ban a certain "class" of PLAYER from using the weekend bonus, but they COULDN'T risk being too specific, so they went for an "inconvenience" approach instead, by saying they COULD have the bonus if they used a deposit method they didn't normally use, but could NOT be paid back to the Neteller account they have always used, but MUST be paid by a most INCONVENIENT method, or by a less inconvenient and COSTLY method ($25 bank wire), whereas a withdrawal back to Neteller is CONVENIENT, FAST, and FREE.

For "Neteller", substitute any of the other "banned" wallets.


The difference between Weekend & weekday.

1) MORE TIME - players often have MORE free time over the weekend, so the uptake of the bonus would be greater.

2) Helps 1) - the bonus itself is "better value", being a higher percentage on amount deposited.

The overall result is that the most popular bonus is restricted both by convenience of depositing, and INconveniance of receiving any resultant winnings for many players.



I do NOT believe that a VERIFIED and REGULAR player is all of a sudden a "fraud risk" just because they deposited from a card, under pressure from the casino, and asked the withdrawal to go back to their NORMAL method.

If the casino DID feel that card deposits introduced this additional element of risk, WHY THE HELL DID THEY IMPLEMENT A RULE TO ENCOURAGE MORE OF THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!!!

[LonelyHearts]

Originally Posted by vinylweatherman

I PREDICTED this, and this new rule PROVES ME RIGHT!!!!

I suggested that the initial rule would simply mean that players who would normally deposit with Neteller, would switch to using their card purely as a means to qualify for the weekend bonus. Louise even implied that this is what players would have to do, by advertising to us that we could STILL use the weekend bonuses if we were willing to use our cards instead.

My prediction was that this would bring about the VERY problem that has just hit pingpong, that they would NOT be able to withdraw painlessly back to their ALREADY VERIFIED AND USED NETELLER ACCOUNT, but would be forced to take a cheque instead, because "we can't refund back to cards".

Rushmore have now DELIBERATELY thrown a spanner in the works to THWART those players who switch from Neteller to Credit card for their WEEKENDS so that they can use the bonuses by introducing the rule that has NO EFFECT WHATSOEVER against fraud from REGULAR players, where the casino ALREADY KNOW the Neteller account belings to the player, having taken deposits from, and paid out to, it before.

The INTENT behind the rule has now become CLEAR. It was NEVER about these wallets, it was about these PLAYERS. The INTENT was to ban a certain "class" of PLAYER from using the weekend bonus, but they COULDN'T risk being too specific, so they went for an "inconvenience" approach instead, by saying they COULD have the bonus if they used a deposit method they didn't normally use, but could NOT be paid back to the Neteller account they have always used, but MUST be paid by a most INCONVENIENT method, or by a less inconvenient and COSTLY method ($25 bank wire), whereas a withdrawal back to Neteller is CONVENIENT, FAST, and FREE.

For "Neteller", substitute any of the other "banned" wallets.


The difference between Weekend & weekday.

1) MORE TIME - players often have MORE free time over the weekend, so the uptake of the bonus would be greater.

2) Helps 1) - the bonus itself is "better value", being a higher percentage on amount deposited.

The overall result is that the most popular bonus is restricted both by convenience of depositing, and INconveniance of receiving any resultant winnings for many players.



I do NOT believe that a VERIFIED and REGULAR player is all of a sudden a "fraud risk" just because they deposited from a card, under pressure from the casino, and asked the withdrawal to go back to their NORMAL method.

If the casino DID feel that card deposits introduced this additional element of risk, WHY THE HELL DID THEY IMPLEMENT A RULE TO ENCOURAGE MORE OF THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!!!

I've read about the past problems with this group. I can say one thing "Slotster is right about this group!"

Originally Posted by Slotster!

I understand where you're coming from on this, but seriously - why?

With the myriad of choice out there - why intentionally pick a casino with proven payout issues? That's insane. Ok, give them a chance to explain and make amends - but "I will actually play there because the rep is nice"...

This is not a personal or particular 'dig' - just a genuine question...

Why would a player do that?

It's no wonder the rogue casino operators get away with it for so long.

I give up.

Originally Posted by Slotster!

Yep...

Whenever I see threads like this, I get increasingly annoyed.

I fear/feel for the people who aren't aware/don't have access to Casinomeister who will be left hung out to dry by these sort of tactics.

Don't care what anyone says, don't care what people think about casino reps personally. Pay your players on time when they win - end of story. No excuses. Ever. Don't run a casino and then expect to win all ends up... It's pathetic.

When I see reps posting about how they are 'speaking to upper management' 'trying to get it sorted' blah blah blah ... whatever - makes me want to vomit. It is the paramount and single most important part of your business; there are no excuses ever under any circumstances for payments not being made.

People have actually posted in this thread insinuating that, because they were paid WITHIN 8 DAYS - that's timely and ok!?? Jeez... What is wrong with people!? Forgetting all the current delays and nonsense, that's outrageous in itself.

Don't run a casino if you can't pay people equally as quickly as you can take their money.

Idiots.