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Hmm, No Bonuses anymore with Neteller/Moneybookers at Rushmore Group

Joined
Nov 19, 2004
Location
Europe
I just found out today, I dont get weekend bonuses anymore for deposits with Neteller or moneybookers at Cherry Red Casino.


How I see this counts for all 3 Casinos, Rushmore, Slots Oasis and Cherry Red.
It seems you do not get any bonus nomore with Neteller or Moneybookers.
Also not the sign up bonuses.

to play Slots, Real Video Slots, Keno and Scratch Cards

For a credit card deposit - use coupon code: 4000FREE

For a UseMyWallet deposit - use coupon code: 4000FREEUMW

For a eWalletXpress deposit - use coupon code: 4000FREEEX

For a Click2Pay deposit - use coupon code: 4000FREECP



I wonder why this is so now?
Still was able to claim a bonus not so long ago.

Well fine, I will not play there anymore.
 
Well...now is every Neteller user called a possible bonus abuser???

Wtf...whats next???

I noticed at Ladbrokes is the WR doubled for Neteller deposits.

Maybe they should check from what countrys the bonus abusers are, maybe it is better to restrict the countrys and not the deposit methods


They have now one player less...congrats!
 
Hi all,

This is the case - Players using Neteller and Moneybookers are now unfortunately unable to redeem the welcome bonuses and weekend bonuses. They can still redeem the weekly bonuses however.

Kind regards,

Louise
Rushmore, Cherry Red & Slots Oasis Rep.
 
This is the case - Players using Neteller and Moneybookers are now unfortunately unable to redeem the welcome bonuses and weekend bonuses. They can still redeem the weekly bonuses however.
Just one question... WHY???

KK
 
Well I know Buzzluck has higher WR with neteller too
BUT..... they keep it fair and state the following in their terms

If you deposit via Neteller, the rollover is increased to 40x (deposit+bonus) and there is a max cashout of 2,500.00. We are willing to waive this requirement for certain accounts. To see if you qualify, please contact your host before claiming the bonus.

I am from Europe, and Neteller and Moneybookers are here the most used deposits methods as far I know.
 
Hi all,

This is a measure which has been put in place for now but that may change in the future pending further assessment and changes with our admin backend.

I apologize to the players that have been affected by these changes.

If anything changes, I will make sure to post here to update everyone.

Players using credit cards, UseMyWallet, Click2Pay, eWalletXpress and EcoCard are still able to redeem all bonuses that we offer.

Thanks,

Louise
Rushmore, Cherry Red & Slots Oasis Rep.
 
Hi all,

This is a measure which has been put in place for now but that may change in the future pending further assessment and changes with our admin backend.

I apologize to the players that have been affected by these changes.

If anything changes, I will make sure to post here to update everyone.

Players using credit cards, UseMyWallet, Click2Pay, eWalletXpress and EcoCard are still able to redeem all bonuses that we offer.

Thanks,

Louise
Rushmore, Cherry Red & Slots Oasis Rep.

What, with all the CREDIT CARD FRAUD that is supposedly going on:eek:, surely an eWallet deposit is FAR FAR safer (or was this just another industry excuse for something else they didn't want to reveal).

This answer really isn't good enough, what is REALLY going on with Neteller and Moneybookers? Frank and transparent answers please, Neteller and Moneybookers customers may worry there is something deeper going on here, with the bonus exclusions being the tip of the iceberg.

Usually, it has been CREDIT CARD deposits that have been out of favour, with extra bonuses offered for Neteller and Moneybookers deposits, and none for credit cards. There are still some casinos that give a little extra for the eWallets, usually no more than 15% though.

UseMyWallet and eWalletXpress are not used by European players, and Click2Pay is pretty much unregulated, NOT having any kind of recognition from the UK FSA (Neteller and Moneybookers at least have a small emoney issuer's exemption).

This is not merely confined to Rushmore it seems, other casinos are mentioned, and it seems these have sneaked the change in without informing players (Ladbrokes).

The problem with credit card deposits arises when casino's DON'T offer accounts in the currency of my card, the conversion charges are even WORSE than Neteller change, and further, there is all the messing around of sending back and front of the card, and a deposit declaration form on top of the regular ID documents. There are also players who don't like giving their card details to casinos, and there are card companies that don't allow gambling transactions any more.


Other than the inclusion of Click2Pay, this move at Rushmore looks like it is intended to sideline European players in favour of US players.

I wonder what Neteller and Moneybookers think of this, as it will impact on their own profits as players switch to the favoured deposit methods.
 
UseMyWallet and eWalletXpress are not used by European players, and Click2Pay is pretty much unregulated, NOT having any kind of recognition from the UK FSA (Neteller and Moneybookers at least have a small emoney issuer's exemption).
Neteller and Moneybookers are both properly authorised and regulated as e-money issuers, they are not small e-money issuers.
 
Well anyone who has gone through the many loops n hoops of actually getting a neteller account will understand that neteller is about as safe as they come. Why any casino group would wish to penalize players deposting via this method is beyond my poor IQ score. I rarly use cards now due to horror high fees from UK banks amoungst other things. Yet another reason not to wager at certain casino groups who have had past slow payout historys and stick unreasonable limits on withdraws. Vote with thy wallet as I do. They are plenty of Casinos who offer much better terms. Rant over :mad:
 
I was still undecided about whether or not to deposit there again after hearing about the withdrawal delays they were having not that long ago and how it was handled.

As i mainly use Neteller and Moneybookers, based on this new information, i will no longer be playing at these casinos.
I would of thought they needed players back that had lost confidence in them, not alienate them.:rolleyes:

I wonder if Neteller and Moneybookers cost the casinos more in fees then click2pay and other deposit options.
Maybe that had something to do with it as money talks and my money walks....elsewhere.;)
 
Again I am baffled after reading a thread here.. What are casino operators eating these days? Are they so blind that they don't see how the customers will respond to such an action? It is these little things that makes me belive that some casinos just don't get the basics on how to please a customer...
 
Louise - it would be great if you could answer the question that many members have asked - WHY has this been implemented?

It continually stumps me as to why some operators like Rushmore are so secretive about why they do things.....??? If you dont provide any sort of explanation, players will make up their own mind and just vote with their feet like some of those above have indicated.

Another thing - why can Neteller depositors redeem the weekly bonuses and not the welcome or weekend bonuses? The only reason I can think of is that Neteller have increased their costs and its not economical to offer any bonus of 100%+ as a result. Well if thats the case then why not say it?

IMO there is nothing more annoying than someone basically answering "why are you doing that? with "because we are".

I used to play at Rushmore Group all the time but I run a mile when I see the cloak and dagger stuff starting - coupled with the still-unexplained long payment delays.
 
Louise - it would be great if you could answer the question that many members have asked - WHY has this been implemented?

It continually stumps me as to why some operators like Rushmore are so secretive about why they do things.....??? If you dont provide any sort of explanation, players will make up their own mind and just vote with their feet like some of those above have indicated.

Another thing - why can Neteller depositors redeem the weekly bonuses and not the welcome or weekend bonuses? The only reason I can think of is that Neteller have increased their costs and its not economical to offer any bonus of 100%+ as a result. Well if thats the case then why not say it?

IMO there is nothing more annoying than someone basically answering "why are you doing that? with "because we are".

I used to play at Rushmore Group all the time but I run a mile when I see the cloak and dagger stuff starting - coupled with the still-unexplained long payment delays.

Maybe this is it. The payment problems over the last three months were somehow related to Neteller and Moneybookers depositing players, and this move is intended to put off NEW players starting out with these eWallets as a deposit method, and also to put off EXISTING players by cutting access to the higher weekend bonuses.

Louise once said that one thing holding up withdrawals was having to wait for more funds to be put into their account. I don't recall ever getting a frank and transparent answer to what this actually MEANT, but we speculated nevertheless.

This move is implied as being a temporary one

This is a measure which has been put in place for now but that may change in the future pending further assessment and changes with our admin backend.

Cryptic reply yet again - very frustrating. What have "changes with our admin backend." got to do with Neteller and Moneybookers players redeeming SOME coupons, but not OTHERS. RTG, and the supplied "back end" is FULLY CAPABLE of servicing the FULL experience for ANY supported deposit methods. Neteller and Moneybookers are well known in the industry, and do NOT cause problems with other RTG casinos' "back end" applications.

More worryingly, Louise can no longer flush withdrawals, another sign of "cashflow" being an underlying issue, and by preventing Louise offering this service to Casinomeister players on request, allows the group to juggle cash more effectively by applying the SAME timeframes and rules to ALL pending cashouts.

I can't see it has much to do with "bonus abuse", since it affects EXISTING players, who's playing patterns are known to the casino, and could be individually "bonus banned". On top of this, dedicated bonus hunters will simply switch deposit methods as necessary in order to still qualify (and so will NON bonus hunters, just regular players who are prepared to stay loyal, even if ti measn ditching their usual gambling account, and moving to another such as Click2Pay).

Players who prefer NOT to face the problems of proving their ID with a NEW eWallet will stick with Neteller and Moneybookers, the "devil they know", but might well steer clear of Rushmore Group because they feel they are being unfairly penalised for this choice.

As well as feeling this is unfair penalisation because I choose an eWallet regulated by the FSA over one that is not, I ALSO worry whether this move is connected to an inability to PAY OUT via Neteller, and certainly giving Neteller depositors the "brush off" will result in fewer requests for WITHDRAWALS back to Neteller (or Moneybookers).

Players who deposit with a Credit card may NOT be permitted to withdraw winnings back to Neteller or Moneybookers, something Louise has NOT mentioned, but something players might find out if they change over from using Neteller or Moneybookers in order to continue to enjoy the weekend coupons. Payment may ONLY be available by cheque, which can take a month or more, depending on circumstances, and said cheque may NOT be in the correct currency for the player's home country either!
 
I fully agree with Vinyl's post.

It is all these little extra hazzles beeing implemented everywhere that starts to really irritate me..

I mean, imagine all the people who not necessarily read every little detail in the terms and conditions about deposit methods. They are going to register, apply for the bonus, and deposit with Moneybookers and Neteller and suddenly they don't get the bonus they thought they was getting after all. Hell, if I haven't read this thread I could have verry well made the same mistake myself. (And I have made "mistakes" like this this one more times than I can count)

I feel that they whole industry are on a steady decline... Late payments are getting the norm on almost every casino, with a some exeptions, casinos are implementing sneaky rules whenever they get the chance and now Rushmore starts to have different rules for every singel deposit method they accept. :rolleyes:

Really scary that Louise can't flush withdrawals anymore aswell. That was the one reassuring thing about Rushmore.

Why can't casino's just be custromer friendly, pay in a timely fashion, be open and transparent about delays, and stop implementing crap rules like this one? Is it really that hard?

Sorry if I sound a little grumpy. I have deposited a ton at Rushmore over time and really liked it there, but for some reason they started to pull tricks out of the hat, and I don' like it. Please get onto youre old course again Rushmore, you where number one then!
 
just my .02 cents :D i dont think bonuses are worth there weight ive cashed enough to make me a believer that im playing at fair establishments

however i doubt id ever cashed .05% if i went the bonus route,s

one proviso is the free one,s or the 5to 10x wr [i still buy pass all but the free ones ]:) i guess this makes 2 1/2 cents :D
 
Now that the issue on confiscated funds has been resolved, any chance that the issue in this thread can commented upon by Rushmore?

Hi pingpong,

Now and again the bonuses we offer are changed by our marketing department for various reasons. This would be a case where this has happened so I can only apologize to players that have now not been able to redeem these bonuses when using certain deposit methods and hope that the bonus structures may be changed in the near future.

Kind regards,

Louise
Rushmore, Cherry Red & Slots Oasis Rep.
 
Most players deposit with Neteller/Moneybookers so it follows that most bonuses will be redeemed by players using these ewallets, and the casino will lose most money to people using these ewallets. I wouldn't be surprised if a casino persecuted against them for that reason. Bad logic though.

I also understand the charges that the casino absorb on every deposit via these methods are pretty high.
 
Most players deposit with Neteller/Moneybookers so it follows that most bonuses will be redeemed by players using these ewallets, and the casino will lose most money to people using these ewallets. I wouldn't be surprised if a casino persecuted against them for that reason. Bad logic though.

I also understand the charges that the casino absorb on every deposit via these methods are pretty high.

Perhaps this is where you are mistaken, by thinking that most players deposit via Moneybookers/Neteller. The Marketing Department, I am sure, wouldn't have decided to change the bonuses if that was the case. Plus, there can be many reasons as to why certain deposit methods are restricted from redeeming certain bonuses. There is constant assessment of our bonus structures, so again, I can only apologize to those affected and hope that something will be available for you in the future.

Thanks,

Louise
Rushmore, Cherry Red & Slots Oasis Rep.
 
Louise, while we're talking about bonus's I just went to cherry red and the weekend bonus is gone. Can you please explain this.

Next logical step really.

It should be OBVIOUS that players will simply CHANGE from Neteller & Moneybookers if the BONUSES were their KEY OBJECTIVE, whereas players who were NOT prepared to change their normal deposit method JUST because of ONE casinos recent change to ONE of TWO regular promotions would simply move their play elsewhere, or not play at all.

The argument that "most players" do NOT use Neteller or Moneybookers makes the step even ODDER that it would be if most players DID. However, whilst most players use other methods, these are AMERICAN players, who CANNOT use either ewallet. This step is more logical when taken in this context, as AMERICAN players are completely unaffected, but EUROPEAN players, where these ewallets are VERY popular ARE affected a great deal.
When Rushmore started out, they were for American players, and had deposit methods that ONLY American and Canadian players had ready access to. Later, expansion of deposit methods meant European players could play, if anything, MORE easily than American players.
This step tips the balance towards favouring American players, who will still be able to have the weekend bonuses, but European players will have to use a different deposit method to also qualify.

I believe fees are not much to do with this, Credit Card deposits ARE still eligible for the bonuses, yet merchant fees are FAR bigger than with Neteller and Moneybookers, and Rushmore cannot even reverse deposits back to Credit Cards when players withdraw to cancel out the fees, as they could with Neteller and Moneybookers.

The withdrawal of bonuses must have been a reaction to something else, and was designed to give the marketing team "breathing space" to consider what to do, as currently they had nothing in mind to roll out as a replacement.

Discouraging deposits by Neteller/Moneybookers also means they can take longer to pay out. Players who deposit via ewallet EXPECT payment back to the same ewallet, and FAST. Players who deposit by credit card can expect payment by cheque, or perhaps bank wire. These methods are SLOWER than Neteller, and player expectation is that these methods will be slower - so they don't complain so readily for delays of less than 2 weeks. Cheques, for example, can be held up until money is moved to the processor, and then they are sent out. Expectation is anything up to 4 weeks. No way does it REALLY take 4 weeks from POSTING a cheque to it's arrival, but this is often how long it takes from requesting a withdrawal for many casinos. Most of this time is spent in delays "in the system" BEFORE the cheque enters the postal system.
 
Louise, while we're talking about bonus's I just went to cherry red and the weekend bonus is gone. Can you please explain this.

Hi rockydyke :)

We still have the weekend bonuses running - Please go to live chat and customer service will provide you with the code/s you need.

Apologies for the confusion.

Regards,

Louise
Rushmore, Cherry Red & Slots Oasis Rep.
 
I sometimes use click2pay and haven't had any problems. The only reason I use click2pay is I'm sometimes not happy with some casinos having my card number (especially new casinos) but when I do use my card I don't get charged conversion rates. I'm from Australia and have to use USD at most casinos. I've also bought things from the USa and I've never once been charged a conversion rate. I'm not sure if this the way with all the banks here or just my bank. Perhaps it is because it's a Visa Debit card but for all intents and purposes when using it, it acts like a credit card. It even acts more like a credit card sometimes by letting me spend more money than what I have in my account at the time.
 
I sometimes use click2pay and haven't had any problems. The only reason I use click2pay is I'm sometimes not happy with some casinos having my card number (especially new casinos) but when I do use my card I don't get charged conversion rates. I'm from Australia and have to use USD at most casinos. I've also bought things from the USa and I've never once been charged a conversion rate. I'm not sure if this the way with all the banks here or just my bank. Perhaps it is because it's a Visa Debit card but for all intents and purposes when using it, it acts like a credit card. It even acts more like a credit card sometimes by letting me spend more money than what I have in my account at the time.

bit off topic sorry.

hey pauly just wondering which bank this card is with? I currently have a anz visa debit (don't like using the CC online) when ever i make a payment to a casino or neteller they charge me $9.99 :mad::mad: and i think there conversion rate is wrong. last deposit to neteller was of $280us dollars and the bank had taken $368au surely the aus$ isn't that bad..

anyway sorry for the derail....

Matt
 
bit off topic sorry.

hey pauly just wondering which bank this card is with? I currently have a anz visa debit (don't like using the CC online) when ever i make a payment to a casino or neteller they charge me $9.99 :mad::mad: and i think there conversion rate is wrong. last deposit to neteller was of $280us dollars and the bank had taken $368au surely the aus$ isn't that bad..

anyway sorry for the derail....

Matt
Mine is also an ANZ Visa. I never get charged to deposit to casinos or click2pay. I've never deposited that much but the conversion always look about right to me.
 
Hi paulyt,

If you are using Click2Pay, you are still able to redeem the weekend bonuses :)

Regards,

Louise
Rushmore, Cherry Red & Slots Oasis Rep.
 
Hi paulyt,

If you are using Click2Pay, you are still able to redeem the weekend bonuses :)

Regards,

Louise
Rushmore, Cherry Red & Slots Oasis Rep.

So what's the difference:confused: It's an eWallet, no different from Neteller or Moneybookers. Whatever the issue was with Neteller and Moneybookers, it will be THE SAME with Click2Pay.

Louise is on Vacation, so I don't expect a swift reply to this point, but we are STILL no further with getting an explanation for this decision. SOMEBODY at Rushmore actively made this decision, so there HAS to be a reason behind it. What's the BIG DEAL, and the SECRECY.
 
So what's the difference:confused: It's an eWallet, no different from Neteller or Moneybookers. Whatever the issue was with Neteller and Moneybookers, it will be THE SAME with Click2Pay.

Louise is on Vacation, so I don't expect a swift reply to this point, but we are STILL no further with getting an explanation for this decision. SOMEBODY at Rushmore actively made this decision, so there HAS to be a reason behind it. What's the BIG DEAL, and the SECRECY.

Player to player transfers I would guess (the lack of them). Actually Im almost 100% sure.

Edit: almost forgot to say that Rushmore has another rep, MichelleRush.
 
Player to player transfers I would guess (the lack of them). Actually Im almost 100% sure.

Edit: almost forgot to say that Rushmore has another rep, MichelleRush.

If this is so, no wonder there is such secrecy. Rushmore are NOT SUPPOSED TO KNOW whether any of their players are doing this, but a previous complaint has revealed that Moneybookers WILL pass this information on to the casino, but it is SUPPOSED to be done ONLY when FRAUD is suspected, and being investigated.
I believe casinos pass a list of players they suspect to the processor, who will say whether they are connected to each other, probably by making peer to peer transactions to each other. This may not necessarily be evidence of FRAUD, but is certainly evidnce of what casinos call "collusion", often referred to as a "fraud ring" by casinos when explaining what is going on. It is "fraud" in their eyes, since the players are acting together in a "professional" sense, rather than acting alone for "personal entertainment".

If Click2Pay don't offer peer to peer, it will NOT be used so much by "colluding" players as Neteller or Moneybookers.

Neteller and Moneybookers themselves will investigate what they might see as "abnormal" peer to peer transactions, such as money constantly being passed back & forth between the same group of customers.
 
Be aware of new rule at Rushmore

I have always used Neteller at Rushmore, but since I wanted to take advantage of the weekend bonus, I decided to deposit with my creditcard.

I won a little, finished the WR and asked for a withdrawal. Since they dont allow you to withdraw back to the creditcard used, I thought that my good old neteller account could be used. I was wrong.

When my withdrawal had been pending for two days, I got an e-mail that said that the funds were transfered back to my account. Support draw my attention to rule 13 in their General T & C:

You can not withdraw via the following means if a deposit with credit card has generated the winnings: Moneybookers, Neteller, EcoCard, eWalletXpress, Click2Pay and UseMyWallet. Further E-wallet solutions may also be excluded at Rushmore Casino's discretion

And they continued: "If you would like to proceed to withdraw your winnings, you must request a wire transfer or bank draft check (for amounts over US$250 only)."

As check isnt a very practically option in Norway (noone uses it here, I am not even sure if my local bank would know how to cash it in), I had to ask for a bank wire (and paying the 25 dollar fee). I am still waiting on it, I am not sure when/if it will hit my account.

Frankly, I had never heard of this new rule, excluding all webwallets when using creditcard (it wasnt in the bonus TC, just the general TC which I seldom read). Support told me that it was new and introduced to avoid fraud.

Since I have accepted the casino TCs, I am not gonne moan about this. But maybe the rushmore group could have included the term in the bonus TC, so that it would have been easier to find? What do you other players think?
 
You can not withdraw via the following means if a deposit with credit card has generated the winnings: Moneybookers, Neteller, EcoCard, eWalletXpress, Click2Pay and UseMyWallet. Further E-wallet solutions may also be excluded at Rushmore Casino's discretion

What an absolute crock.

If the player had ONLY ever deposited by credit card, then the above term is reasonable. However, if the player has used Neteller before they should ALWAYS be able to withdraw to that method. I cant remember any casino I play at invoking such a puzzling rule.

What's worse is that the player was almost 'forced' to deposit via credit card as a Neteller deposit wouldnt be eligible for the weekend promotion they wanted to claim! On top of that, they have the nerve to charge $25 for the wire - LMAO!

I am all for reasonable and sensible terms that protect the casino from fraud etc, but we are talking about a REGULAR PLAYER who has been ID'ed and deposited/withdrawn via Neteller previously.

IMO it breaches the CM Accreditation requirement that "The casino must not implement terms that can be construed as "unfair" towards the player."
 
I have a feeling. That more and more people are getting irrate with online casinos in general. Especially this group. Maybe most of us are just burnt out. But what else to do when you just sit in the house and wait on your number?
 
I currently have a anz visa debit (don't like using the CC online) when ever i make a payment to a casino or neteller they charge me $9.99 :mad::mad: and i think there conversion rate is wrong. last deposit to neteller was of $280us dollars and the bank had taken $368au surely the aus$ isn't that bad..

Hi Matt,

The AUD against the $US has been sitting high. Today it's at 1 AUD = 0.918US and has fluctuated between .89 and .91 for a couple of months. Why is this so when were apparently in the grips of a recession? Your guess is as good as mine :confused:

Like you I also use a debit visa (StGeorge).
From what I've been told casino/neteller deposits are treated similar to a cash advance - even though, unlike a CC, a debit card draws funds directly from your own money in your bank account. I used to use an ANZ visa debit but like you were getting hit with stupid fees. So I changed.

Although I still get hit with an currency exchange fee, I'm not getting extra fees that I was when using the ANZ debit visa.


Even with the 1.9% that Neteller tack on to your deposits (if your a NT VIP these are waived)thes would be the approx charges within 1 AUD or so:

1.9% NT deposit charge on $280US = $5.32

$280US = 304.724AUD (worked out on today's exchange rate of 1 AUD = 0.918864 USD

Total amount $310.044AUD

Being hit for an additional $57.956AUD by your bank is insane. I'd be calling up the banking ombudsman office in Melbourne and asking for the ANZ 1800 number for customer complaints.

I did this and bitch mighty hard. Ended up with a $300AUD goodwill payment ;-)



Cheers

Dave
 
I have always used Neteller at Rushmore, but since I wanted to take advantage of the weekend bonus, I decided to deposit with my creditcard.

I won a little, finished the WR and asked for a withdrawal. Since they dont allow you to withdraw back to the creditcard used, I thought that my good old neteller account could be used. I was wrong.

When my withdrawal had been pending for two days, I got an e-mail that said that the funds were transfered back to my account. Support draw my attention to rule 13 in their General T & C:

You can not withdraw via the following means if a deposit with credit card has generated the winnings: Moneybookers, Neteller, EcoCard, eWalletXpress, Click2Pay and UseMyWallet. Further E-wallet solutions may also be excluded at Rushmore Casino's discretion

And they continued: "If you would like to proceed to withdraw your winnings, you must request a wire transfer or bank draft check (for amounts over US$250 only)."

As check isnt a very practically option in Norway (noone uses it here, I am not even sure if my local bank would know how to cash it in), I had to ask for a bank wire (and paying the 25 dollar fee). I am still waiting on it, I am not sure when/if it will hit my account.

Frankly, I had never heard of this new rule, excluding all webwallets when using creditcard (it wasnt in the bonus TC, just the general TC which I seldom read). Support told me that it was new and introduced to avoid fraud.

Since I have accepted the casino TCs, I am not gonne moan about this. But maybe the rushmore group could have included the term in the bonus TC, so that it would have been easier to find? What do you other players think?


I PREDICTED this, and this new rule PROVES ME RIGHT!!!!

I suggested that the initial rule would simply mean that players who would normally deposit with Neteller, would switch to using their card purely as a means to qualify for the weekend bonus. Louise even implied that this is what players would have to do, by advertising to us that we could STILL use the weekend bonuses if we were willing to use our cards instead.

My prediction was that this would bring about the VERY problem that has just hit pingpong, that they would NOT be able to withdraw painlessly back to their ALREADY VERIFIED AND USED NETELLER ACCOUNT, but would be forced to take a cheque instead, because "we can't refund back to cards".

Rushmore have now DELIBERATELY thrown a spanner in the works to THWART those players who switch from Neteller to Credit card for their WEEKENDS so that they can use the bonuses by introducing the rule that has NO EFFECT WHATSOEVER against fraud from REGULAR players, where the casino ALREADY KNOW the Neteller account belings to the player, having taken deposits from, and paid out to, it before.

The INTENT behind the rule has now become CLEAR. It was NEVER about these wallets, it was about these PLAYERS. The INTENT was to ban a certain "class" of PLAYER from using the weekend bonus, but they COULDN'T risk being too specific, so they went for an "inconvenience" approach instead, by saying they COULD have the bonus if they used a deposit method they didn't normally use, but could NOT be paid back to the Neteller account they have always used, but MUST be paid by a most INCONVENIENT method, or by a less inconvenient and COSTLY method ($25 bank wire), whereas a withdrawal back to Neteller is CONVENIENT, FAST, and FREE.

For "Neteller", substitute any of the other "banned" wallets.


The difference between Weekend & weekday.

1) MORE TIME - players often have MORE free time over the weekend, so the uptake of the bonus would be greater.

2) Helps 1) - the bonus itself is "better value", being a higher percentage on amount deposited.

The overall result is that the most popular bonus is restricted both by convenience of depositing, and INconveniance of receiving any resultant winnings for many players.



I do NOT believe that a VERIFIED and REGULAR player is all of a sudden a "fraud risk" just because they deposited from a card, under pressure from the casino, and asked the withdrawal to go back to their NORMAL method.

If the casino DID feel that card deposits introduced this additional element of risk, WHY THE HELL DID THEY IMPLEMENT A RULE TO ENCOURAGE MORE OF THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!!!
 
I PREDICTED this, and this new rule PROVES ME RIGHT!!!!

I suggested that the initial rule would simply mean that players who would normally deposit with Neteller, would switch to using their card purely as a means to qualify for the weekend bonus. Louise even implied that this is what players would have to do, by advertising to us that we could STILL use the weekend bonuses if we were willing to use our cards instead.

My prediction was that this would bring about the VERY problem that has just hit pingpong, that they would NOT be able to withdraw painlessly back to their ALREADY VERIFIED AND USED NETELLER ACCOUNT, but would be forced to take a cheque instead, because "we can't refund back to cards".

Rushmore have now DELIBERATELY thrown a spanner in the works to THWART those players who switch from Neteller to Credit card for their WEEKENDS so that they can use the bonuses by introducing the rule that has NO EFFECT WHATSOEVER against fraud from REGULAR players, where the casino ALREADY KNOW the Neteller account belings to the player, having taken deposits from, and paid out to, it before.

The INTENT behind the rule has now become CLEAR. It was NEVER about these wallets, it was about these PLAYERS. The INTENT was to ban a certain "class" of PLAYER from using the weekend bonus, but they COULDN'T risk being too specific, so they went for an "inconvenience" approach instead, by saying they COULD have the bonus if they used a deposit method they didn't normally use, but could NOT be paid back to the Neteller account they have always used, but MUST be paid by a most INCONVENIENT method, or by a less inconvenient and COSTLY method ($25 bank wire), whereas a withdrawal back to Neteller is CONVENIENT, FAST, and FREE.

For "Neteller", substitute any of the other "banned" wallets.


The difference between Weekend & weekday.

1) MORE TIME - players often have MORE free time over the weekend, so the uptake of the bonus would be greater.

2) Helps 1) - the bonus itself is "better value", being a higher percentage on amount deposited.

The overall result is that the most popular bonus is restricted both by convenience of depositing, and INconveniance of receiving any resultant winnings for many players.



I do NOT believe that a VERIFIED and REGULAR player is all of a sudden a "fraud risk" just because they deposited from a card, under pressure from the casino, and asked the withdrawal to go back to their NORMAL method.

If the casino DID feel that card deposits introduced this additional element of risk, WHY THE HELL DID THEY IMPLEMENT A RULE TO ENCOURAGE MORE OF THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!!!

I've read about the past problems with this group. I can say one thing "Slotster is right about this group!"

I understand where you're coming from on this, but seriously - why?

With the myriad of choice out there - why intentionally pick a casino with proven payout issues? That's insane. Ok, give them a chance to explain and make amends - but "I will actually play there because the rep is nice"...

This is not a personal or particular 'dig' - just a genuine question...

Why would a player do that?

It's no wonder the rogue casino operators get away with it for so long.

I give up.

Yep...

Whenever I see threads like this, I get increasingly annoyed.

I fear/feel for the people who aren't aware/don't have access to Casinomeister who will be left hung out to dry by these sort of tactics.

Don't care what anyone says, don't care what people think about casino reps personally. Pay your players on time when they win - end of story. No excuses. Ever. Don't run a casino and then expect to win all ends up... It's pathetic.

When I see reps posting about how they are 'speaking to upper management' 'trying to get it sorted' blah blah blah ... whatever - makes me want to vomit. It is the paramount and single most important part of your business; there are no excuses ever under any circumstances for payments not being made.

People have actually posted in this thread insinuating that, because they were paid WITHIN 8 DAYS - that's timely and ok!?? Jeez... What is wrong with people!? Forgetting all the current delays and nonsense, that's outrageous in itself.

Don't run a casino if you can't pay people equally as quickly as you can take their money.

Idiots.
 
I've read about the past problems with this group. I can say one thing "Slotster is right about this group!"


I wonder what "new rule" will come next. For some players, a cheque is NOT such a problem, so they will have to find another way to make it not worth the bother of using cards at the weekend just for the bonus, such as insisting ONLY on $25 bank wires, or ONLY "courier" cheques for an exorbitant fee.

There is ALREADY the problem of having to provide additional documentation once a card is used, an image of back & front of the card, and often a signed deposit declaration form.
 
Thanks for the input. Needless to say that I agree with you, vinyl. I do not know the reasons behind this rule, and if it really is to avoid fraud like support told me....but my two cents on this issue is that they should have made the rule more visible. I felt like it was kind of hidden in the general TC. I would of course not have taken the bonus if I knew that the withdrawal options were that limited.
 
Thanks for the input. Needless to say that I agree with you, vinyl. I do not know the reasons behind this rule, and if it really is to avoid fraud like support told me....but my two cents on this issue is that they should have made the rule more visible. I felt like it was kind of hidden in the general TC. I would of course not have taken the bonus if I knew that the withdrawal options were that limited.

Absolute bullshit!


IF a player has been depositing regularly with Neteller, and changes to a card BECAUSE the casino introduced a rule for the weekend that MADE them do this, then there is NO issue with returning that player's winnings back to their already established Neteller account once they have received the appropriate documentation for the card.


Sending a bank wire, or a cheque, will NOT MAKE A DIFFERENCE if it turns out the card deposit was fraudulent, since the player has STILL been paid.

MOST casinos will certainly seek to returnj deposits to their source, but this is more to do with fees, than with fraud, since they do ID checks on players before paying out.

Rushmore THEMSELVES introduced this rule KNOWING it would INCREASE deposits by card, so they CAN'T have seen card fraud as a major worry, otherwise they would NOT have introduced a rule that INCREASED their exposure to card deposits by dis-incentivising deposits made by other means.

It IS easier for a player to "screw over" a casino by using a credit card than a wallet. Credit Cards permit "chargebacks", even if the player simply "didn't like the gameplay", wallets do NOT (except where there is proven fraud involved, and even this is not a certainty).

This week, I received the regular promo email from Vegas Partners, reminding me that Neteller was positively ENCOURAGED to the extent that I get an EXTRA 15% on top of the usual offer I was offered. Card deposits get NOTHING extra.
 
RUSHMORE MUST BE GOING BANKRUPT BECAUSE....

I have been playing there for several years, no matter how I deposited I made withdrawl to my ewallet. I recently won 400.00 and they wouldn't send cashin to QT as I "won on money deposited via credit card". Of course it doesn't matter how much I deposited and lost via QT.

I am never playing there again as I really believe that QT isn't accepting money from them as there is no reason for them to consider paying QT when deposit via credit card to be prohibited per their "new fraud policy".

Using their reasoning, the only non-fraud method of payment would be to pay back the credit card used for deposit.

They are full of it! and I say "take a hike". :p
 
You can not withdraw via the following means if a deposit with credit card has generated the winnings: Moneybookers, Neteller, EcoCard, eWalletXpress, Click2Pay and UseMyWallet. Further E-wallet solutions may also be excluded at Rushmore Casino's discretion

And they continued: "If you would like to proceed to withdraw your winnings, you must request a wire transfer or bank draft check (for amounts over US$250 only)."

As check isnt a very practically option in Norway (noone uses it here, I am not even sure if my local bank would know how to cash it in), I had to ask for a bank wire (and paying the 25 dollar fee). I am still waiting on it, I am not sure when/if it will hit my account.

I have withdrawn from Rushmore by wire transfer before, and I don't recall any fee. They even covered the fee from my bank for receiving an international wire. It takes a little longer than ewallet withdrawal though.
 
I have withdrawn from Rushmore by wire transfer before, and I don't recall any fee. They even covered the fee from my bank for receiving an international wire. It takes a little longer than ewallet withdrawal though.

Yepp, there's a fee of 25 dollars if the bank wire is below 250 dollars. From Rushmores FAQ:

Q. How can I withdraw my winnings?
A. We can send you your winnings in one of the following ways:
Wire transfer - Time frame for delivery is 6-10 working days. There is a fee of $25 dollars if the amount of the withdrawal is lower than $250 charge. The money is wired directly to your bank account.
Checks/Banker's draft - This option is only available to withdrawals of $250 and above. Time frame is about 6-10 working days and can be tracked. No fee involved. Checks must be signed for upon delivery, therefore we are unable to send checks to a PO box address.

Of course, they may not enforce the fee, I will not know that before I receive the money.

As for the fraud as reason behind the rule, I can only paste and copy what they told me per email:

"Dear XX,

Yes, we have recently refined our fraud and withdrawal policies. Thank you for you understanding."
 
Neteller VIP

I have just been called by my Neteller VIP manager (or more likely the VIP desk).

They were after feedback, & they got some:D


I raised this issue with her. It has two strands to it.

1) Discrimination in provision of service depending on deposit method used. Rushmore have made this a EXCLUSION specifically against Neteller & Moneybookers, rather than having a variety of inducements for different methods.

2) Refusal to allow players to withdraw back to a VERIFIED Neteller account.



1) She speculated that merchants would rather receive their money "directly", rather than through the "Neteller system".
This implies there is a difference between "Neteller money", and "Card money" when it is in the hands of the merchant.

As a player, the obvious difference between "Neteller money", and "normal money" is where it resides. Card deposits go DIRECTLY to the merchant's own business banking account, whereas "Neteller Money" merely moves from the player's Neteller account, to the Merchant's Neteller account.
The merchant has some restrictions on how they can use their "Neteller Money" (roughly the same as me). They can quickly use it to pay withdrawals back to Neteller, but CANNOT write a cheque on it, nor can they use it straight away to send a wire. The merchant would have to withdraw their "Neteller money" back to their bank before they could use it for these. Neteller will be charging fees for these movements.
If the merchant has too little in their Merchant Neteller account, they have to move money back into it.

2) Fraud? BOLLOCKS!!!!

It's down to the effects of 1).

Rushmore have told players to use cards to get the weekend bonus, so this is what players are doing. These players want winnings withdrawn back to their VERIFIED ewallet account (Verified, so no real fraud risk exists). However, because "everybody" is now depositing by card, money is LEAVING their ewallet merchant accounts, but is no longer being replaced to the same extent by deposits, so it keeps running empty, and they have to keep moving new money into it.

They get fed up with this, so introduce the new rule.

In by card, out by wire or cheque.

This makes things MUCH simpler. The card deposits go into their bank account, the wires and cheques can leave the same bank account. NO juggling of funds needed, they just need to ensure deposits exceed withdrawals + overheads.

They use "fraud prevention" as an excuse, because this is the one thing they NEVER have to explain in detail, and thus can use it as a bland "canned statement" to explain almost everything.

They don't give a flying Rat's arse that this SERIOUSLY inconveniences players, some to the extent that they cannot even receive their winnings because of problems with THEIR banks, and interpretations of local laws, along with banks' suspicion of these "odd looking cheques" that the processors seem to be sending out.

It can be a sign of a struggling operator, but could also be a sign of operator greed at the expence of customer service levels. They are forgetting that it is the CUSTOMER that pays their wages, and contributes towards their profit. If the service puts these customers off, and another provider offers something better, these customers will move. There is LESS customer loyalty in THIS industry than most others. It is MUCH easier to try a new casino, than it is to switch phone or energy provider.
 
They are forgetting that it is the CUSTOMER that pays their wages, and contributes towards their profit. If the service puts these customers off, and another provider offers something better, these customers will move. There is LESS customer loyalty in THIS industry than most others. It is MUCH easier to try a new casino, than it is to switch phone or energy provider.

An excellent point. The buffet is too well-stocked these days to hang around the stale sandwiches (if you get my gist)
 
I have just been called by my Neteller VIP manager (or more likely the VIP desk).

They were after feedback, & they got some:D

It is common knowledge that credit/debit card deposits are handled by third party processors. The casinos don't see this money for months. They probably have quicker access to player funds through Neteller/Moneybookers.

As for why Rushmore doesn't allow their best bonuses for Neteller/Moneybookers depositors, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that this is because they make less money/lose off these players as a group, likely because what is commonly known as "fraudsters" tend to use these deposit methods.

If you don't like it, vote with your money and play elsewhere.
 
I got the wired money today, but the amount (in my local currency) was significantly lower that it would have been if it had been transfered to neteller and then wired from neteller to my bankaccount. (And neteller is not cheap when it comes to fees and conversion rates!)

I do not know what fees and/or conversions that have eaten up the withdrawal (it may be my local bank, or somewhere else on the way to my bank account), but I will for sure never use bankwire agan when withdrawing from an RTG casino (and not take bonuses that forces me to use this option).
 

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