Fruit Frenzy Layout at Doyles...hmmm....

[LooneyTunez]

Let me start by saying that I've been playing RTG for many years and Fruit Frenzy has been a long time favorite. I know this slot like the back of my hand, and the screenshot below reveals something that has me VERY concerned! On "reel 2", there are 2 "pear" symbols (one on top of the other)...this is NOT NORMAL...let me repeat, NOT NORMAL. A glitch maybe? Logged out, and back into "Fun Mode", and the beginning state of the reels shows the "pears" inline with each other too. Guess it's not a glitch, and something is awry here.

This is my second deposit with Doyles, with my first being a couple months ago, and when I made my first deposit, the reels did not have this layout. I haven't contacted support yet, as I'd like to get some thoughts here first. Anybody else want to confirm my findings, before I pursue this "issue" any further?

[hippo925]

good observation. i'm guessing that it is just a glitch, but i'm actually not sure that it would matter. Most likely, every slot we play online has some sort of dynamic weighting and the symbols we see are really just for entertainment. If you bet 1.00 and win 2.40, the software chooses a layout of symbols that will equal 2.40. I know a lot of people actually think the reels randomly land in a certain position and THEN rewards 2.40, but there is too much evidence to the contrary. The only online slot that works the way most people think is the one on the wizard of odds site (he programmed it so that the program picks FIVE random numbers, one for EACH independent reel.)

Most online slots uses the RNG just to determine the amount won or lost, then a graphical representation is shown. That is the idea behind virtual reels. Keep in mind, it's still random (though not like most people think.) Really, we are relying on the honestly and integrity of the sofware provider to set the RNG to actual reel strips versus arbitrary paybacks.

But still looking forward to what you find out! (maybe they just have their slots set to a payback that other casinos don't use... therefore the different "layout" representation?)

[De Beuker]

Funny you post about this now, I've noticed this too, but not at Doyles, so I think this is a general change?
Can't remember which RTG I saw this, but it was not Doyles, as I have no account there.

[KasinoKing]

Yes, I noticed this too a few weeks back. I thought it was very strange as I could not recall seeing two same symbols next to each other on this slot before - though I don't play RTG very much, so I wasn't certain.
I was playing at BuzzLuck.

Unlike Hippo, I believe the reel stops are random and the win is generated afterwards, and also that the reel strips are a fixed pattern for each different return % setting. My guess therefore is that the "double pear" only appears on the game set to minimum returns.

It would be VERY interesting if everyone who plays at any RTG casino could log in & take a look to see what they have...

KK

[nisosbar]

There should be the symbol for three balloons beneath the pear on the second reel. That's what it looks like on Aladdin's Gold.

[DogBoy001]

Let me start by saying that I've been playing RTG for many years and Fruit Frenzy has been a long time favorite. I know this slot like the back of my hand, and the screenshot below reveals something that has me VERY concerned! On "reel 2", there are 2 "pear" symbols (one on top of the other)...this is NOT NORMAL...let me repeat, NOT NORMAL. A glitch maybe? Logged out, and back into "Fun Mode", and the beginning state of the reels shows the "pears" inline with each other too. Guess it's not a glitch, and something is awry here.

This is my second deposit with Doyles, with my first being a couple months ago, and when I made my first deposit, the reels did not have this layout. I haven't contacted support yet, as I'd like to get some thoughts here first. Anybody else want to confirm my findings, before I pursue this "issue" any further?

Heya,

This is caused by a human malfunction when designing the RTP variations for the game.

The reels are in a fixed order, with random stop locations called for and then displayed. Following that display a win evaluation runs through and sees whether there have been scatter or line wins (as KK says it's not the other way round)

There is 1 variation of the 3 (though I can't disclose which) that has the following reel strip order:

Pos.: Reel 2
1 Pear
2 Balloons
3 Ticket
4 "Frenzy"
... (skipped listing the middle section)
37 Balloons
38 Plum
39 Banana
40 Pear

As you can see Position 1 and Position 40 (the start and end of the reel strip order) both have a Pear

This means that if the random stop position result for reel 2 is position 40 it will display:

Position 39 = Banana
Position 40 = Pear
Position 1 = Pear

As per what you see in the screenshot.

Typically (unless it's meant to be a grouped symbol) the symbols at the top and bottom of the reel will be different.

Woooof

[silcnlayc]

This is caused by a human malfunction

Please expand on this with more information wise. All the other stuff you wrote is fine and dandy but what does this statement ACTUALLY mean? That each casino operator can change the reels at THEIR discretion???

.

[KasinoKing]

Please expand on this with more information wise. All the other stuff you wrote is fine and dandy but what does this statement ACTUALLY mean? That each casino operator can change the reels at THEIR discretion???

No, I don't think so. The full sentence was:

This is caused by a human malfunction when designing the RTP variations for the game.

i.e. I think he means the person designing the slot at RTG failed to notice he put the same symbol at the start & end of the reel strip.
I can imagine that's quite an easy mistake to make!

As I said before, to me it is extremely likely that this is on the LOWEST payout version, since we know they lower the RTP by adding symbols.
Therefore, players can tell which casinos have a higher return setting by looking for Fruit Frenzy without the side-by-side Pears... at least, until they make the inevitable update...

Disclaimer: I'm guessing & could be wrong. Also, we know different slots can have different RTP's within the same casino.

KK

[hippo925]

Heya,

This is caused by a human malfunction when designing the RTP variations for the game.

The reels are in a fixed order, with random stop locations called for and then displayed. Following that display a win evaluation runs through and sees whether there have been scatter or line wins (as KK says it's not the other way round)


Woooof

Always appreciate your posts!

Out of curiousity, do rtg slots generate a random number for each reel like the wizard of odds slot, or just one number? The reason i ask is that if there is just one random number generated for all five reels, doesn't that mean that the random number is just giving out a result, say 0.00 or .50 or $1200, etc?
(this would of course correspond to a visual display of the reel layouts that equal the won amount..... and this would still be random enough for all intensive purposes.)

And as i understand it, you are saying that the software randomly displays the reels, THEN a "win evaluation" looks for scatter or line wins... but whenever there is a glitch on these slots (not specifically rtg), we are always told that the "correct" result was given even though the reels were wrong / glitch / whatever. In other words, if the result is evaluated "after" the reel results, how can these glitches even happen?

Another example, if the software has a glitch where a wild is removed and we are told that the correct results were still given (wild symbol was absent but another symbol was shown that gave the same win.) wouldn't that mean the RNG just picks the result and THEN the matching reel layout is shown?

Thanks again Dogboy!! You always make it so much easier to understand these things and your openness is soooo refreshing.

P.S. I agree with KK... since it's a layout that doesn't seem too common, i'm guessing it's the lowest RTP. (but isn't the pear one of the higher paying symbols?)Would be interesting to see when it changes!

[vinylweatherman]

No, I don't think so. The full sentence was:

i.e. I think he means the person designing the slot at RTG failed to notice he put the same symbol at the start & end of the reel strip.
I can imagine that's quite an easy mistake to make!

As I said before, to me it is extremely likely that this is on the LOWEST payout version, since we know they lower the RTP by adding symbols.
Therefore, players can tell which casinos have a higher return setting by looking for Fruit Frenzy without the side-by-side Pears... at least, until they make the inevitable update...

Disclaimer: I'm guessing & could be wrong. Also, we know different slots can have different RTP's within the same casino.

KK

There IS a way to check, and that is to compare this reel with that found in a casino who has publically declared it uses the mid range 95%, and has never "tweaked" the games downwards.
The second way is to analyze this variant, and calculate the RTP. WE now know it is the variant with repeated pears on stop 40 and 1, which appear together. It is a case of getting the strips for all 5 reels on this variant, and having a go at working out the RTP.
It is not easy, but if we have a variant known to be the 95% one, we can use information from this to work out how much RTP comes from the bonus game, and how much from the base game.

It is highly disappointing that players are FORBIDDEN TO KNOW the RTP of the machine they are playing when this is coupled with the fact that casinos can "tweak" this RTP WITHOUT BREATHING A WORD to customers. The only reason this got noticed was because of the double pear.

This has never been highlighted before, yet was a "human error" in the DESIGN stage. I can speculate that this is the first time casinos have used these variants, and we are seeing the first proof that it is a whole lot easier to have slots changed to a new RTP variant than we were lead to believe in earlier replies from operators etc.

Given the economic climate, it is likely that the change has been from the 95% "standard" version to the approx 93% lower RTP variant. This ties in with loads of posts from players convinced that they just don't seem to get the "playtime" for their money from RTG slots that they used to.

There is no absolute proof, but do we, as players, need this. RTG casinos refuse for the most part to disclose the RTP of their games, we know this RTP can be changed, and now we have evidence that it HAS been changed at casinos where we see Fruit Frenzy displaying this double pear on stop 40/01. I doubt casinos would go to all this trouble to change the RTP on just this one slot, given how we have been told it takes 6 months, and has to be requested, and agreed, through RTG - I believe it fair to assume that any casino that has done this has requested changes to a package of slots, and without evidence to the contrary, I would assume the changes to be to a lower RTP.
We, as players, should bear this in mind when depositing, and assessing the value of a bonus (20x WR is a far worse deal if the RTP has been lowered).

MGS casinos in general refuse to disclose the RTP of the games, and those that DO publish only give a range, such as 95% - 96%. What we DO know though, is that once released, the RTP never changes again, and if MGS casinos want to put the squeeze on us, they have to do it OPENLY, perhaps by increasing the WR on bonuses, banning certain games, or offering less "free" money altogether.

A few years ago saw the dissection of many MGS slots, and extraction of their RTP. This task could at least be done ONCE per slot, and gave answers that were appropriate for all MGS casinos. With RTG, we have to look at THREE variants for each slot, and calculate the RTP three times.
There are some RTG slots simple enough to calculate exact mathematical RTP values for using the "slot simulator". This might catch out those casinos likely to be using a lower RTP than the "standard", and players can judge for themselves whether these casinos have lowered the RTP on more complicated slots too.

As in the case of the double pear, various RTP variants might carry such "markers" that make them easy to tell apart, so it should not be necessary to completely gather the reelstrips from each RTP casino to tell which RTP variant is being used.