another useless casino id system - luckynetwork

[sparkz]

time for my latest rant, it mainly focuses on the id factors of this...


i saw luckynetwork on a site and signed up not so long ago, upon signup it asked for passport number or id number... i dont have either of these because in the uk id's are not issued to everyone (the only chance of getting an id is via getting a provisional but paying in excess of 50 for 1 which i wouldnt use as i have no intention of driving and never get id'd in shops/pubs here so it would be a waste of money) and i have never been abroad so havent ever bothered to get a passport (even now theres even less point because to get a 1st passport you have to go to some other city for an nterview so this again could be costly and possibly 100+)

so anyway in this box i did put "dont have any", because my main intention was to use the no deposit money to play as i had heard some good things about the fun, new and exciting slots they have there, and if i met wagering requirements/wanted to deposit i would contact support and explain this to them.

I played and i met wagering requirements and really loved the games. I also read and noticed on the net that this casino has been paying people with no problems. So i get in touch with live support explaining everything to them, how i would of liked to cashout the no deposit winnings (max cashout of 40) and of course started to make real deposits. I told them how i have many other documents to proove who i am such as wage slips, government issued income support forms, my yearly taxcode/amount, bank statements, utility bills, national insurance card, possible pictures of my bank card, which overall all of them state my name and most of them state my address and date of birth,

i also explained how there would be no difference between a passport/id and the documents i do have because they all proove fully that i am who i say i am and no "fraudster" could possibly have all of them documents of mine..

the only constant reply i had off them was saying they couldnt process any withdrawl without a copy of my passport or photo id, once again i said to them i had neither and they went on to say exactly the same and also something along the lines of "the id cards are issued by the government in the country you are a resident of", in the end i gave up and emailed support but with no reply to date


this irritates me, some casino support staff/managers dont have a clue, how can i get hold of a government issued id card when they dont issue them in the uk and whats the point of paying all that money and travelling distances to get a passport which takes weeks and a fair bit of money just to send a copy to the casino to get myself verified in order to cashout 40?

im hoping my email is responded to soon, hopefully the person who reads that email wont be as stupid and incompetant as the person i spoke to in live support

 

[silcnlayc]

Go to any place that makes photo ID cards. You can request this here in the USA from the DMV when you do not have any other form of ID except a birth certificate. That should be simple enough. How does one prove who they are if you have no photo ID?? Just curious. What happens if you got stopped by the police and you had no ID?

.

 

[funky_seagull]

Go to any place that makes photo ID cards. You can request this here in the USA from the DMV when you do not have any other form of ID except a birth certificate. That should be simple enough.

.

The UK isn't the USA.

We don't have a place that makes photo ID cards. Not everybody drives or is allowed to drive due to medical conditions. Not everyone wants to travel abroad, and these ID's cost a lot of money, fuck that.

I guess someone could create a pretend photo ID using photoshop, some casinos don't seem to have a clue how things work here in the UK, so maybe they wouldn't know, and it would teach them to be such wankers.

How does one prove who they are if you have no photo ID?? Just curious. What happens if you got stopped by the police and you had no ID?.

I was stopped once by the police when I was homeless. They asked me questions about my identity. Used their walkie talkies to verify the information I supplied them with their HQ, searched me for drugs, then said that all the information I had given them was verified on their computer and I was a real person... didn't give me any money to buy a cup of tea though, stingy fuckers.

I do agree about this whole photo ID thing, it is a load of bollox. There are many other ways to prove a person's ID. The photo ID thing seems to me to be a way to stall processing withdrawals and a gamble by the casino that the person won't possess photo ID and so the casino will keep the money. Total scam if you ask me. There are plenty of paper documents that prove who you are, what fucking difference does a photo make?

 

[sparkz]

Go to any place that makes photo ID cards. You can request this here in the USA from the DMV when you do not have any other form of ID except a birth certificate. That should be simple enough. How does one prove who they are if you have no photo ID?? Just curious. What happens if you got stopped by the police and you had no ID?

.

theres nothing like this here sadly, as mentioned provisionals can be obtained at a cost but useless paying that money when im not going to learn how to drive,

photo id's shouldnt matter in a way with casinos because the picture on the id could be of anyone, they will never know what you look like,

im not sure to be honest what happens if police stop someone, rubish uk me thinks , the only time in my life have i been given an id card was only a proof of age card (just like college students cards) back at school 6 years+ ago, however when i went to use it in a shop about 4 years ago they told me it couldnt be accepted and i ended up losing that card lol

edit: oh and couldnt agree with you more funky seagull

 

[vinylweatherman]

time for my latest rant, it mainly focuses on the id factors of this...


i saw luckynetwork on a site and signed up not so long ago, upon signup it asked for passport number or id number... i dont have either of these because in the uk id's are not issued to everyone (the only chance of getting an id is via getting a provisional but paying in excess of 50 for 1 which i wouldnt use as i have no intention of driving and never get id'd in shops/pubs here so it would be a waste of money) and i have never been abroad so havent ever bothered to get a passport (even now theres even less point because to get a 1st passport you have to go to some other city for an nterview so this again could be costly and possibly 100+)

so anyway in this box i did put "dont have any", because my main intention was to use the no deposit money to play as i had heard some good things about the fun, new and exciting slots they have there, and if i met wagering requirements/wanted to deposit i would contact support and explain this to them.

I played and i met wagering requirements and really loved the games. I also read and noticed on the net that this casino has been paying people with no problems. So i get in touch with live support explaining everything to them, how i would of liked to cashout the no deposit winnings (max cashout of 40) and of course started to make real deposits. I told them how i have many other documents to proove who i am such as wage slips, government issued income support forms, my yearly taxcode/amount, bank statements, utility bills, national insurance card, possible pictures of my bank card, which overall all of them state my name and most of them state my address and date of birth,

i also explained how there would be no difference between a passport/id and the documents i do have because they all proove fully that i am who i say i am and no "fraudster" could possibly have all of them documents of mine..

the only constant reply i had off them was saying they couldnt process any withdrawl without a copy of my passport or photo id, once again i said to them i had neither and they went on to say exactly the same and also something along the lines of "the id cards are issued by the government in the country you are a resident of", in the end i gave up and emailed support but with no reply to date


this irritates me, some casino support staff/managers dont have a clue, how can i get hold of a government issued id card when they dont issue them in the uk and whats the point of paying all that money and travelling distances to get a passport which takes weeks and a fair bit of money just to send a copy to the casino to get myself verified in order to cashout 40?

im hoping my email is responded to soon, hopefully the person who reads that email wont be as stupid and incompetant as the person i spoke to in live support

THIS is what makes me mad, even though this issue doesn't affect me (yet). This kind of reply is like CS saying "Hey there player - look how THICK we are here at xxxxxx casino." This can put of even players who DO have the ID they want, as it gives the impression that dealing with their CS is going to be like dealing with a bunch of robots, with simple issues becoming a nightmare. Oddly enough, in my own experience, dealing with front line CS is JUST LIKE THIS on many an occasion.

IF casinos want the photo ID, they should provide a way for players to obtain one from a respected industry body, such as eCogra - one that casinos will trust.

Considering how careless the UK government has been with data recently, and the fact that a reporter managed to apply for a driver's license for David Blunkett (who is blind, and was well known at the time, as a government minister) without David's knowledge - I would think an eCogra sourced ID would be more secure than a government one for what the casinos want it for.

Players are only going to go for the provisional drivers license option if their level of play is going to make the 50 expense worthwhile, and only a high roller is going to bother getting a passport purely to satisfy a new casino he was looking to play at.

The ONLY other photo ID cards available here in the UK are issued by private organisations, and are obtained mainly for the purpose of granting some kind of pass to a customer. These WILL SATISFY the purpose that casinos want them for, preventing multiple account frauds, since they can check the details with their records.

Where a registration field simply asks for ID number, a UK player can put in their National Insurance number, although only if the site can be trusted, since our National Insurance number is similar to the US Social Security number, and may cause problems for the player if it got into the wrong hands.

 

[sparkz]

relating to this casino, yet again they have been useless,


i got 1 email saying because i had requested 100 that it would not be processed and that i would have to choose 40 as thats max cashout via a no deposit bonus, and also they explained how bankers draft would take a month to process but if i selected neteller then it would be processed asap,

so i went onto my account, reversed the withdraw, selected 40 cashout and neteller,


today got this reply...


"Well done on winning with us. Unfortunately our system will not allow you to successfully process a withdrawal. If we dont have a valid ID number from you then your account will automatically be banned when we approve your withdrawal. We require a valid number ID from all players that wish to use any type of money transactions within our casino. "

1stly how can i change the "dont have any" i entered to an "id number" and i have explained no less than 7 times to them via live support and email that i have none, and as you rightly said vinylweatherman i could of put national insurance number in the box, but they could use that in fraudulent ways such as claiming a benefit i am not entitled to using my national insurance number which could end up with me getting a fine or into serious crap, and as they arent yet established its not a risk im willing to take


i have explained yet again about how things like my bank statement, wage slip, yearly tax code/taxed amount form, benefit forms and utility bills are more than equivilant to say a US Government issued ID Card or a passport so im awaiting the reply but somehow im not confident it will be anything i want to hear

 

[sparkz]

omfg n its like talking to a brick wall

just got anotehr reply

"Thank you for your reply. We apologize for the inconvenience you are experiencing. We are looking into this matter. Do you have a drivers license that you can send to us as proof of indentification?"


lmao, yawnsss

 

[vinylweatherman]

omfg n its like talking to a brick wall

just got anotehr reply

"Thank you for your reply. We apologize for the inconvenience you are experiencing. We are looking into this matter. Do you have a drivers license that you can send to us as proof of indentification?"


lmao, yawnsss

It seems they will pay your 40, and then ban your account without an ID number.

Try accepting this, and telling them you will contact a government office for advice as to which number is required to be given to foreign businesses when they require an ID number to process financial transactions.

If enough players did this when in receipt of this kind of bullsh1t from casinos, these casinos might review this at a higher level, not wishing various governments to be receiving this kind of enquiry as routine from it's citizens.

Hopefully, they will then devise a more sensible way to verify that they are paying the correct player.

I get the impression that quite a bit of this is "stalling", and hoping they can catch out players who win & can't jump through all the hoops, meaning they only have to refund the deposits.
What SHOULD be concerning casinos is that they are paying the SAME person who made the deposits, and that this is also the SAME person who registered the account, and that the details given are valid. NONE of this checking requires a thing from the player, it can all be done in the background through the electoral roll data, and Experian, who offer ID checking for businesses, as well as credit scoring. All the casino would then need to do is send a PIN to the address registered with them, and require the player to enter it to prove they are at the address.

 

[sparkz]

i did explain something like that to them last night... the 1 reply was:

"It is highly unlikely that the aforementioned documents you described in your previous email will be used as a form of identification here at Lucky Network. I have taken the matter up with my manager and he will see if we can solve the problem by tomorrow and then get back to you with an email. As far as rules and regulations go a form of identification such as an ID document, passport, drivers license, social security card etc. is needed to make a payout."

what gets me is originally it was just passport or government id they wanted, now they dont mind a social security card (pretty much the same as a national insurance card right? but im not gonna risk that) after me keeping on that them.

At least now they are being a bit more smarter by contacting management n "trying" to sort it lol


thats the thing with a lot of online casinos nowadays, with a lot of the useless checks n as you say "hoops" that are around, many potential players could end up with nothing, they make a deposit and win...... but only see their deposit back and winnings voided, or they lose it and see nothing

 

[sparkz]

todays update:

they emailed saying they will contact the "directors" about this, whoever/whatever they are lol

 

[vinylweatherman]

todays update:

they emailed saying they will contact the "directors" about this, whoever/whatever they are lol

Told ya

They are crappin' their pants over what our GOVERNMENT will make of these demands.

It is the PASSPORT that will worry government, since it is copies of the ID page of passports that is fuelling the entry of "illegals" into the country using fake passports.

Clearly, they have never thought of what GOVERNMENTS, concious of NATIONAL security, are going to make of the wall of colour copies of ID going to support centres in unnamed countries, with varying levels of security (or even none).

What you are being told you must provide goes against home office rules, which is probably what you will be told if you did write to the government departments involved.

This issue needs to be brought to a head though, even if this means using governments to put pressure on the industry to come up with a workable ID verification scheme that works for ALL players, AND does NOT place us at risk of ID theft, NOR goes against what our governments intend these documents to be used for.

There needs to be a way for players to get their ID verified centrally by an organisation of enough standing that both players and casinos can trust them, and whose operations are carried out in a jurisdiction with strict data protection laws, so that governments are happy for sensitive raw ID data to be processed there.
The player would be issued with a "casino license", which will carry enough data for casinos to verify against their databases, but that will NOT carry irrelevant data that could be used in ID theft.
eCogra would be ideal at present, having sufficient standing for both casinos and players, and also being based here in the EU, with it's strict data protection laws. Players are likely to have to pay for the service though, unless casinos decide to fund it, as they usually do for our deposits and withdrawals.

 

[sparkz]

yeh i think i couldnt agree more,

the idea about an organisation where players can get verified sounds 100% right. After all what happens to a player who deposits at a new casino and then sends copies of documents to get a withdraw, then 3 months later that casino starts acting rogueish and scams people out of money? if they arent afraid to scam people then surely they wont be afraid to use the information contains in the documents in an illegal way.

I was actually watching something the other day about illegal immigrants and they were saying the amount of fake passports they use are ever increasing, some get caught out but some dont.


I reckon LuckyNetwork may now be trying to "scam" me out of my winnings, i zero'd the account because i had excess bonus money that would of been removed anyway once the 40 was fully withdrawn. Before i played slots until it was zero'd i checked in the account and of course the 40 was still pending (as i thought it would pend until the "directors"..lol... have sorted the problem out), once my account was zero'd i checked a few hours later and there was no pending withdraw, no history of it at all :O

i got in touch with them again and all support could tell me is that withdraw was denied until the id issue was sorted then i could withdraw the 40 and it would be processed normally... i explained to them how there is no money in the account to "withdraw" once the id issue was sorted and they just repeated theirself with what they had said before,

i know it wasnt reversed because i reversed some of the withdraw before (to change the withdraw amount from 100 to 40 as they had said) and i had an automated email confirming it had been reversed, so the only possibly explanations is that they have taken it away so i wont get it or once the id matter is solved (if it ever is lol) the 40 will be automatically sent to my neteller account


i hate the way that there emails dont contain a support member name just

"Kind Regards
Lucky Network Support"

because theres no way for a member to give feedback on whos doing their job correctly and probably no way for management to check whos sent what (unless its a 1 man casino )

 

[sparkz]

great... just got email from them

"With regard to your withdrawal request being denied it is company policy to deny any such request without any proper identification as per terms, conditions and policies within Lucky Network. After the ID problem has been sorted out you will not be able to withdraw the 40GBP bonus as you have already zeroed your balance."

im not bothered about the money but if this isnt rogueish behaviour i dont know what is.... a no deposit with a max cashout limt is EXACTLY that, you can have a bonus with say 80 amx cashout, if you reach bang on 80 then they dont turn around and say "you have 0 in you account after so wont get this money"

their other reply was also...

"We apologize for any inconvenience or misunderstanding in the previous emails, we are the first company using this software internationally and will speak to the developers as to why that denied withdrawal cannot be seen."


well they need to get their fkin act together, i played with a no deposit bonus, won, and cashed it out at the max of 40, end of it was taken from my balance, then i play with the rest of the bonus money and now aint entitled to anything...

think its time i shoved a huge pile of evidence in their face on how hopeless they really are

 

[vinylweatherman]

yeh i think i couldnt agree more,

the idea about an organisation where players can get verified sounds 100% right. After all what happens to a player who deposits at a new casino and then sends copies of documents to get a withdraw, then 3 months later that casino starts acting rogueish and scams people out of money? if they arent afraid to scam people then surely they wont be afraid to use the information contains in the documents in an illegal way.

I was actually watching something the other day about illegal immigrants and they were saying the amount of fake passports they use are ever increasing, some get caught out but some dont.


I reckon LuckyNetwork may now be trying to "scam" me out of my winnings, i zero'd the account because i had excess bonus money that would of been removed anyway once the 40 was fully withdrawn. Before i played slots until it was zero'd i checked in the account and of course the 40 was still pending (as i thought it would pend until the "directors"..lol... have sorted the problem out), once my account was zero'd i checked a few hours later and there was no pending withdraw, no history of it at all :O

i got in touch with them again and all support could tell me is that withdraw was denied until the id issue was sorted then i could withdraw the 40 and it would be processed normally... i explained to them how there is no money in the account to "withdraw" once the id issue was sorted and they just repeated theirself with what they had said before,

i know it wasnt reversed because i reversed some of the withdraw before (to change the withdraw amount from 100 to 40 as they had said) and i had an automated email confirming it had been reversed, so the only possibly explanations is that they have taken it away so i wont get it or once the id matter is solved (if it ever is lol) the 40 will be automatically sent to my neteller account


i hate the way that there emails dont contain a support member name just

"Kind Regards
Lucky Network Support"

because theres no way for a member to give feedback on whos doing their job correctly and probably no way for management to check whos sent what (unless its a 1 man casino )

Call their bluff, actually WRITE to the government, through your local MP. You now have more of a "story", since you ended up gambling everything away since it looked unlikely you would ever get the issue resolved. This falls foul of MORE regulations, those for responsible gambling. You WANTED to quit with a small withdrawal, but couldn't. Given the tiny amount involved, the ID requests were certainly over the top given that eCogra sealholder guidelines only require concrete verification when total withdrawals reach 1000

In effect, your money is being held ransom UNTIL you send in a passport, this "ransom" element is what will worry the government, since it will effectively prevent players from following home office guidelines, and it only needs the passport to be sent ONCE to the wrong outfit to create a problem with your ID details.

They may not INTENTIONALLY be trying to scam you, but this is what they are effectively doing to many UK players with old paper driving licenses, or even none at all, and no passport, or who do not want to send passport copies against home office guidelines.

 

[silcnlayc]

We don't have a place that makes photo ID cards. Not everybody drives or is allowed to drive due to medical conditions. Not everyone wants to travel abroad, and these ID's cost a lot of money, fuck that.

I really didn't know this. Here in the USA you can get one made with an address and photo and an ID number.

Sorry to hear you have had such an awful time of it.

.

 

[lee_bumble]

sparkz

hey sparkz,

It sounds to me that you are a bit of a bum.

Let's be fair you are on the dole bro. Your skint and cant even afford a passport. Your in last chance hotel.

I say, get a job and stop fucking about on the internet.

Regards

Lee_bumble

 

[vinylweatherman]

I really didn't know this. Here in the USA you can get one made with an address and photo and an ID number.
Sorry to hear you have had such an awful time of it.

.

This is just so simple, but we don't even HAVE an "ID number" as such, the nearest to these being "entitlement" numbers. Our National Health number entitles us to free healthcare, and our National Insurance number tracks us from the age of 16 for tax and benefit purposes. Both are unique to an individual, and would serve as an ID number, but NEITHER can be officially made up into a photo ID card - unless we do it ourselves in Photoshop from component parts - doubt casinos would accept this

We can also get a European health insurance card for free, with yet another unique ID number, but AGAIN, these are NOT issued with a photo.

 

[sparkz]

hmmm now that could be a great idea


i wonder if they even bother reading my essays because there never seemed to be the right reply, still pretty puzzled with it since the 40 no deposit winnings were withdrawn from my overall balance and havent been put back on my account at all just mysteriously disapeared with no history of it (even tho there was not so long ago) and they even said its been "denied" not "reversed"


il send em the bill for my paracetemol too cause theyve managed to give me a headache

 

[Kenny Lingus]

hey sparkz,

It sounds to me that you are a bit of a bum.

Let's be fair you are on the dole bro. Your skint and cant even afford a passport. Your in last chance hotel.

I say, get a job and stop fucking about on the internet.

Regards

Lee_bumble

That was SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO F*CKING MEAN, and yet I laughed for at least ten minutes before I could type this reply. LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[sparkz]

hey sparkz,

It sounds to me that you are a bit of a bum.

Let's be fair you are on the dole bro. Your skint and cant even afford a passport. Your in last chance hotel.

I say, get a job and stop fucking about on the internet.

Regards

Lee_bumble

LMFAO


well im guessing your nothing less than the "upper class" in this country, especially with the colins chav dictionary for kids you clearly use , next time i leave "last chance hotel" and visit cardboard alley i'll pay you a visit and buy you the 2009 edition.

 

[vinylweatherman]

hey sparkz,

It sounds to me that you are a bit of a bum.

Let's be fair you are on the dole bro. Your skint and cant even afford a passport. Your in last chance hotel.

I say, get a job and stop fucking about on the internet.

Regards

Lee_bumble

It's not just a matter of affording one, even though it is expensive.

The UK government do NOT issue a passport for the purpose of sending a copy of it to foreign businesses, in fact, the UK government have OBJECTED to a practice common in the package holiday industry of hotels asking to "look after it in their safe", and even taking a copy of it. UK government advice is DON'T DO IT!!!!!! Clearly, they intend a passport to be a document that is INSPECTED at an international border crossing, and it NOT to be stored in some businesses' personal data filing system.

A driving license is a cheaper alternative, but is simply NOT OPEN to everybody who is old enough to play online.

The passport option also entails a delay that would make Mainstreet casinos blush, with a MINIMUM of 6 weeks quoted, and clearly this is more when demand is higher, such as now in the early holiday season. New applicants also have to take a day off work in many cases, and travel to a major city to attend an interview in person, where biometric data is taken from them, and they hand in their supporting documents for verification.

Players choosing to get a passport to impress an online casino are likely to succumb to the temptation to reverse and lose the lot long before they get their passport.

Even at this stage, the hoops are still there. Casinos also want a recent utility bill, but casinos GET INTO THE ****ing INTERNET AGE (I thought you were) - most bills are issued ONLINE now, and although they LOOK the same, they are NOT SENT BY POST ANYMORE, unless you are in the stone age, and PAY a stiff fee for a postal bill. Then, they arrogantly dare to criticise how my energy company chooses to format the bloody thing - it's NOT for the CASINO's benefit these bills are produced, they are to show us what to pay for our energy. Anyone uneasy with an internet issued bill is hardly likely to be the target customer for the online casino industry. Casinos can EASILY get around this by THEMSELVES sending the player something in the post, and telling the player to make a JPEG of it, and send it back to them - this would achieve the very same thing as a utility bill, verifying access to a registered address by the player, AND would FURTHER prove the address was not faked, since if it were, the CASINO would receive the "unable to deliver" returned mail.

 

[greedygirl]

lee_bumble, Kenny Lingus and sparks...

Knock off the crap-tossing and keep this on topic, please. No need for the playground nonsense.

 

[Jasminebed]

Canada and the US now have a passport or enhanced driver licence requirement for international travel. Because it is a current issue, I read that 70 percent of US residents do not have a passport.

Bet365 sent me a snail mail with a confirmation I had to respond to. I've yet to have a cashout, so I'm not sure what other requirements they may request from me.

I had to confirm my Moneybooker's account. My electrical bill is not in my name (although the last name is the same). My cell phone provider emailed me that they will plant a tree if I opt out of a paper bill. My prepaid card is just that, prepaid, there is no statement. I could send a casino a copy of a register receipt for payments I make in person, but I sometimes load it electronically through my bank account.

I've not been gambling online as long as some folks here, but I have found that from no requests for ID (for withdrawals over $1K), I've gone to requests for ID for $50 in the past two years.

I gambled back a substantial win one time while waiting to fulfill their withdrawal requirements, never again (I hope).

Casinos are always quick to accept our deposits, they should make reasonable efforts to pay us when we occasionally win.

I do understand that casinos need to protect themselves from fraudsters, money laundering and multiple bonus claiming accounts.

But they may find themselves without customers if their requirements for withdrawal remain too stringent.

A couple of years ago, I went to a B&M with a buddy. Her ID did not meet the standards for a player's card, and she was given a form for an OLG (Ontario Lottery and Gaming) identity card. She was free to play, but if she had a single win (eg, slot jackpot, not mulitple hands of blackjack) of over $10,000 she would be required to provide ID to claim same. She would have 90 days to do so. And the identity card the OLG provides has no fee other than what you might spend for a passport photo, and an appropriate witness (anyone that is a Canadian passport holder is acceptable, as well as doctors, lawyers, dentists, engineers, bank managers et. al.).

I think that since ecogra is well established self-regulatory body, they could offer something similar. Mind you, not every casino is an ecogra member, but I would hope they would accept such a gambling card.

I could easily obtain an OLG card, but even though government issued, it is not a passport or a driving licence...seems like many casinos consider them the only acceptable ID.

I recall telephoning one casino that asked for an ID number...I entered my Age of Majority card number...government issued photo ID. It was issued in 1977, the year I became old enough to drink in Ontario.

I'm pretty sure I cashed out from that casino without an ID request, but if they ever ask me, I have that photo card. It does match what I entered for my info.

I'll give up online gambling before I get a passport just to satisfy a casino's requirements. My deposits are usually less than the cost of a passport, and it is not an instaneous process.

Any casinos that do not already have my business would have a hard time persuading me to join for these kinds of reasons.

The industry is going to have to be more accomodating to the average player if they expect to keep or solicit their business.

I know I played back a win of over $800 during a cashout process. I do think they count that a certain numbers of players will.

I'm not much older, but I am a little wiser. Dispite clearing my ID with casinos first, I know that new requests may arise at any time.

I stick with the CM accredited, so I can at least PAB should the need arise.

 

[maxd]

hey sparkz,

It sounds to me that you are a bit of a bum....

Need I remind you of the Forum Rules wherein you will find, at the top of the list I might add, the following:

1. General Posting Rules:

1.1 - No "Flaming": Please do not post any messages that harass, insult, belittle, threaten or flame another member or guest. Abusive behavior will not be tolerated and your account may be suspended. Please refrain from potty mouth language.

That post of yours has earned you a week 'vacation'.

That was SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO F*CKING MEAN, and yet I laughed for at least ten minutes before I could type this reply. LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Since you think that was so great you can join him, two days in the brig.

The Rules are there for a reason folks. Please follow them.

 

[RobWin]

How did you guys in the UK and Canada ever get into a nightclub or bar that serves alcohol without an ID to prove your age. Just curious what you guys did when you were younger and got carded for ID to prove your age..or did that scenario never happen to you guys..

Even here in the states they still card peeps that are clearly way the hell over 21 when they go to purchase alcohol and cigs at the respective businesses, mostly because of liability issues with getting caught serving liquor or selling cigs to peeps under 21.

 

[Jasminebed]

Back in my day, they had something called an age of majority card. Picture is on the back, it's laminated with a number. But it does not have my date of birth, just that as of the date the card was issued I was at minimum 18 years old.

It has now been replaced by the BYID (Bring Your ID) card, but this is only issued to those 35 and under. And it does not have your address, something the online world seems to require. This is issued by the Liquor Control Board of Ontario, which is not strictly speaking a government agency. (It's employees are not government employees). Since I am too old to obtain one, (fee is $36 I believe), there is not any other photo ID available other than a passport or a citizenship card, both of which are relatively pricy.

Or a driver's licence, which is not really meant to be used as ID and is the easiest ID to obtain fraudulently.

 

[sparkz]

lee_bumble, Kenny Lingus and sparks...

Knock off the crap-tossing and keep this on topic, please. No need for the playground nonsense.

i know my appologies for my reply on it, but none of my posts were offensive in any way then he posted that harsh post for no reason

 

[sparkz]

How did you guys in the UK and Canada ever get into a nightclub or bar that serves alcohol without an ID to prove your age. Just curious what you guys did when you were younger and got carded for ID to prove your age..or did that scenario never happen to you guys..

Even here in the states they still card peeps that are clearly way the hell over 21 when they go to purchase alcohol and cigs at the respective businesses, mostly because of liability issues with getting caught serving liquor or selling cigs to peeps under 21.

well i'll be honest,

the uk law is 18 and most people get into places on the basis they look old enough. I remember going to some club when i was 15 :O.

From what iv seen the majority of people that get id'd in clubs look around college kid age, thus some of them have an NUS card which is like their college id card.

In about 6 years of going out to clubs and pubs i can only ever remember being id'd a max of 20 times (when it happened then id just have to go somewhere else). Since being 18 iv never beed id'd for alcohol or tobacco in shops

 

[Jasminebed]

Drinking age is 19 in Ontario now. My daughter was always young looking and tiny to boot, and I was grateful she wasn't being served underage like many of her friends.

For her 19th she dearly wanted to go out to a local night club. As you can't apply for your BYID until after you are of age, I went with her with her birth certificate, a copy of my custody order (her last name is different than mine) and my ID. After talking to a manager (who I did know casually from having drank there years before) managed to get her admitted. Any one that looks at the two of us can see we are related, and my argument that not too many mothers are forging court orders in order for underage children to drink was persuaive enough. This bar had a reputation for serving underaged, and had faced quite a few fines, and was exercising a little more caution than usual.

Sorry for the derail, but online requires ID at least in part for proof of age.

I'm going to have searching out who offers fifty-plus discounts soon

 

[vinylweatherman]

How did you guys in the UK and Canada ever get into a nightclub or bar that serves alcohol without an ID to prove your age. Just curious what you guys did when you were younger and got carded for ID to prove your age..or did that scenario never happen to you guys..

Even here in the states they still card peeps that are clearly way the hell over 21 when they go to purchase alcohol and cigs at the respective businesses, mostly because of liability issues with getting caught serving liquor or selling cigs to peeps under 21.

Simple, the bars had to work with what our government provided. This lead to it being easy for underage people to get served, so local schemes were born that allowed for young people who didn't look 18, but were 18, to get a simple photo ID card that stated they were 18 or over. This was NEVER meant to be an ID card, but a proof of age card for those under 25 who faced problems because they didn't look their age. Above this, it should be obvious on sight that someone is old enough, so no cards needed.
When some private businesses wanted to ID members with a pass, they again had to start with what the government offered, and make their OWN photo pass card from it. THIS is what I am trying to get across to casinos, if they want a photo ID for some players, THEY have to produce it from available resources, ideally "they" being an industry body, rather than each casino doing this separately.

Often, the only realistic way some UK players can get a photo ID is to bend the rules. It is even easier to commit fraud, such as use the identity of a MEDICALLY FIT friend to play, purely so that they can provide the photo drivers license, since they CANNOT get their own. By forcing players to bend the rules merely to get fair treatment, a culture begins to develop that condones these minor deceptions as being necessary evils to work with the rest of society. The fact that businesses behave like this to customers makes customers believe these requirements are designed with the idea that not everyone will be able to comply - a bit like those too-good-to-be-true cashback schemes that used to be run for big ticket purchases. The hoops were designed to ensure customers were NOT likely to qualify, and when too many customers actually DID qualify, the schemes got into trouble because they were underfunded.
The idea has been born from exposure of these many scandals that businesses is out to rip us off, so when we see the appearance of loads of obstacles to get what is our right, the FIRST thought that comes to mind is that we are getting ripped off by the business concerned, so our response is often assertive/aggressive right from the start - as we believe the aim of what is happening is to deny what is rightfully ours. When businesses have double standards it does not help.
In the case of casinos, the double standards are that they (generally) don't give a rat's ass about proving ID whilst we shovel thousands of bucks INTO them, but suddenly start to worry about whether they have a fraud on their hands when we withdraw.

 

[coxwel]

interesting how things go different in the UK...

here in good old germany the law forces you since the age of 16 to have your personal id in your pocket. if you get caught by police or any government people you have to be able to proof your identity to them, if not they would be able to make you pay a fine, thats law.

the only id which is optional is the so called reisepass. its only necessary if you want to travel out of the eu.

as i read the things about the uk iam quite happy we get forced to have ids here as your first one is for free ;-) and after 6 years you have to renew it, which cost you 8, acceptable.

as you were talkin about other age proof cards you have in the uk back in the years as i was under 16 ;-) my brother showed me sites in the internet where you could purchase fake ids.. whether these were us sites sellin fake driver license or most of them were out of the uk sellin stupid made up cards like international student identification etc.. which would be useless for germany...

but its not that hard here with clubs or drinkin so as i turned 18 nobody even asked for my id ;-((

anyway if you would play online i would get a government issued id for sure as in many casinos you would get these hassles..

as i bought my printer including scanner it made many cashouts even possible which would have taken and cost lot more without it, now iam prepared for everything and have a collection from all kind of docs ready ;-)... its always good to have as i expereinced often after i send my id to a certain casino, they asked for utility bill or bank statement, ok fine still had one, but often had to send one which was up to date, a simple scanner just really paid of for me i know its nothing special but i never bought ione till the year 2008.. shame.. ;-)


but the more important for me is, what happens to all my id copies held by any casinos anywhere?

to sell a whole collection of scanned ids is something you can ake big money on and i dont want to think about which chinese is already buildin on my docs ;-)

but if one wants to be paid ;-)....


cheers

coxwel

 

[1819]

The UK isn't the USA.

We don't have a place that makes photo ID cards. Not everybody drives or is allowed to drive due to medical conditions. Not everyone wants to travel abroad, and these ID's cost a lot of money, fuck that.

I guess someone could create a pretend photo ID using photoshop, some casinos don't seem to have a clue how things work here in the UK, so maybe they wouldn't know, and it would teach them to be such wankers.



I was stopped once by the police when I was homeless. They asked me questions about my identity. Used their walkie talkies to verify the information I supplied them with their HQ, searched me for drugs, then said that all the information I had given them was verified on their computer and I was a real person... didn't give me any money to buy a cup of tea though, stingy fuckers.

I do agree about this whole photo ID thing, it is a load of bollox. There are many other ways to prove a person's ID. The photo ID thing seems to me to be a way to stall processing withdrawals and a gamble by the casino that the person won't possess photo ID and so the casino will keep the money. Total scam if you ask me. There are plenty of paper documents that prove who you are, what fucking difference does a photo make?

alot of money for an id? if one uses that as an excuse they sure as hell should not be gambling online.....

 

[sparkz]

i think the thing hes relating to in this case is the expense for uk people to get id...


lets look at fake id, that prooves that most club entry is about how old you look because iv heard of sme people who have been 15/16 and got a fake id card, they tried to enter the club and showed the id but still werent allowed in as the bouncer really thought they looked now where near the age of 18,

the thing relating to expence of getting so called "id" when you said about the excuse of id's being "a lot of money". The fact is say in this situation, im "required" to send a copy of a government issued id (as explained in uk we dont get em) or passport copy. The thing here i can get is of course the passport. But that takes a very long process of a few weeks including i must travel to another town to get the checks done and get my passport. So all in all for a passport including travel and the actual passport itself it would cost over 100 (the passport itself is around 80) which is pointless getting just to cashout a 40 free chip at this casino and also i know im not going abroad in the next 10 years so how should it be fair that i have to get 1 when i want to gamble? gambling is about risking your own money to possibly win, but having to buy these "extras" jsut to proove who i am is wasting money

 

[Mouche12]

hey sparkz,

It sounds to me that you are a bit of a bum.

Let's be fair you are on the dole bro. Your skint and cant even afford a passport. Your in last chance hotel.

I say, get a job and stop fucking about on the internet.

Regards

Lee_bumble

According to his previous messages, OP DOES have a job (wager slips were mentioned). I find your message rude and don't understand why it is even nominated... then again, you are a banned user.

 

[Mouche12]

Quote from Oxwel here in good old germany the law forces you since the age of 16 to have your personal id in your pocket. if you get caught by police or any government people you have to be able to proof your identity to them, if not they would be able to make you pay a fine, thats law

===================

same here in good old Holland - ausweis bitte!

 

[zebedy]

alot of money for an id? if one uses that as an excuse they sure as hell should not be gambling online.....

why not? if all the bills are paid and you have enough food on the table,
when i have a few spare s i like to gamble,as im sure many people do, im not rich and i find that paying out 200 just to get a passport that MAYBE an online casino will ask for is a total waste of money especially when its been proved that they dont need it to prove your identy,

 

[vinylweatherman]

i think the thing hes relating to in this case is the expense for uk people to get id...


lets look at fake id, that prooves that most club entry is about how old you look because iv heard of sme people who have been 15/16 and got a fake id card, they tried to enter the club and showed the id but still werent allowed in as the bouncer really thought they looked now where near the age of 18,

the thing relating to expence of getting so called "id" when you said about the excuse of id's being "a lot of money". The fact is say in this situation, im "required" to send a copy of a government issued id (as explained in uk we dont get em) or passport copy. The thing here i can get is of course the passport. But that takes a very long process of a few weeks including i must travel to another town to get the checks done and get my passport. So all in all for a passport including travel and the actual passport itself it would cost over 100 (the passport itself is around 80) which is pointless getting just to cashout a 40 free chip at this casino and also i know im not going abroad in the next 10 years so how should it be fair that i have to get 1 when i want to gamble? gambling is about risking your own money to possibly win, but having to buy these "extras" jsut to proove who i am is wasting money

It's not just the expense, it is the overspecification for purpose. Casinos require a "government issued ID", but they then will NOT accept the format the UK government has itself chosen for routinely issued documentation that everybody gets regardless of status, or medical condition. The UK government does not see the need to go to the expense of using a photo for these internal documents, instead, these documents DO carry an "ID number", which can be used to look up the information on the person in the relevant database. Even the drivers license itself is ONLY a photo one for NEW APPLICANTS. Those of us who passed our tests in the past were issued with PAPER licenses, quite OK for the purpose for which they were issued. The photo was introduced NOT so that it could be proxy for an ID card, but for the purpose of preventing qualified drivers pretending to be a learner, and taking a test on their behalf - with obvious dangerous consequenses. The ONLY way this photo was of any use was because it was a simple matter of the receptionist looking at the license, and then the person before them, and checking they were the same. HOW THE %$" do casinos do this with the photo They DON'T NEED IT, they JUST need a "government issued, or approved, ID document, and some supporting documents to cross check the details. This would be easily served by sending in ANY document issued by the government, alongside other documents demonstrating that the person presenting the document ALSO had access to the private dealings of the person so identified, by showing examples of letters in their name, and with the address registered at the casino also shown as the recipient address on the letter.

The other problem is that casinos are keen to gloss over how hard it can be to actually meet their requirements by making sound so simple in the terms. They simply say "government ID" and "utility bill", but then start to nitpick when these very things are sent, seeming to feel that THEY, a mere online business, have the right to dictate to the UK government exactly what documents, and how they are formatted, should be issued to UK citizens. They then brand the innocent citizen as "fraud" just because the government will not bow to their wishes.

Some casinos then demonstrate the contempt and ignorance by saying "everyone has ID - you are lying" to a UK player who tells CS that they, for example, only have a paper driving license, and have never needed a passport, so have not bothered.

In any event, casinos should NOT be using passports in the first place, they are NOT A COUNTRY, and therefore in law have NO RIGHT to ask to see someone's passport.

Passports are rather special, and these narrow rights as to who can inspect, and more importantly, who can take copies, are there to minimise the risk of forgers knocking out fakes through getting hold of copies of genuine passports, and using these, along with their considerable skill, to knock out altered fakes that end up stealing the ID of the holder of the original.

UK citizens would not put up with being fined just for not having a card in their pocket, since there has been a culture among both public, and private, organisations for using such fines as revenue raising excersises, rather than genuine enforcement. It also looks like a police state, and it means Germans cannot enjoy some of the freedoms we have, such as jogging with shirt & shorts (no pockets), or being on the beach in only swimwear. If the UK had the German system, this is where all the fines would come from, asking people who looked like they had no pockets in their clothes to produce the ID, and then collecting the fines.

The UK police HAVE been issued with alternatives though, portable fingerprint scanners, and portable iris scanners will be along at some time. This means everybody can have their ID checked on the spot, unless they cut their fingers off & pluck their eyes out (but this still leaves DNA).

A previous post mentioned websites selling ID such as "international student card". Well, it's NOT illegal, UNLESS false claims are made about the issuer, such as claiming it to be "government issued/approved" when it is not.
UK Rail companies issue "ID" in the form of an annual season ticket, nothing illegal about this, but it LOOKS like an ID card, because in effect, it IS one, but for limited purposes of protecting the rail company from abuse of the season ticket scheme.

There are loads of websites offering to sell me a university degree, not necessarily fake, since we have the system of "honorary degree", so what is so different to having someone PAY for one. Usually, the degrees are for "wooly" subjects, such as Art or Philosophy, hard to test whether the holder really studied for it.