Rival CSR -incompetence or sheer stupidity

[KasinoKing]

Havent got in writing. But confirmed 100% by RTG and ITG and pretty much by MG. How could they otherwise design them to give unproportional amounts of near-misses?

The amount of near-misses has a very strong relation to how much you will gamble. More near-misses the more you will gamble and the casino makes more profit. BTW this is the exact way it was described by a former casino manager at an accredited RTG and he had it confirmed from RTG.

Several members here have plotted out the reels of MG slots, done calculations, and proved beyond reasonable doubt that the results we see from playing the slots we plotted are exactly in line with totally randomly produced spins. (Note: I am only talking about 5 reel bonus video slots, not 3 reeler's, rigged AWP's, or any other type of slot)
There are several old threads about it if you'd like to a little research.
Here's a couple to get you started:-
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/...re-you-go.html
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/...abilities.html
Warning; they are big threads - grab a coffee!

I've played online slots near enough daily for over 4 years, and I personally have never witnessed any proliferation of 'near misses', and I don't believe anyone else here has commented on this phenomenon either.

I'm not saying I am definitely correct, but there is a lot more mathematical evidence to support my belief about the way slots work than your theory based on hearsay.

But I'm not arguing!

[bernynhel]

Unlike a slot machine in a B&M casino played by whomever may pass by its spot on the casino floor, I cannot stop play on any online slot just one spin short of a jackpot leaving that next spin available for another player to "walk up" to that same machine, place a wager, spin and hit. One should keep this in mind and all which also must be true as a result of this in one's discussions re online slot play.

[spiderlegz]

Several members here have plotted out the reels of MG slots, done calculations, and proved beyond reasonable doubt that the results we see from playing the slots we plotted are exactly in line with totally randomly produced spins. (Note: I am only talking about 5 reel bonus video slots, not 3 reeler's, rigged AWP's, or any other type of slot)
There are several old threads about it if you'd like to a little research.
Here's a couple to get you started:-
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/...re-you-go.html
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/...abilities.html
Warning; they are big threads - grab a coffee!

I've played online slots near enough daily for over 4 years, and I personally have never witnessed any proliferation of 'near misses', and I don't believe anyone else here has commented on this phenomenon either.

I'm not saying I am definitely correct, but there is a lot more mathematical evidence to support my belief about the way slots work than your theory based on hearsay.

But I'm not arguing!

Doesnt actually prove anything. Several members tought that the doubling in Video Poker wasnt predeterminated. I dont say that the reels wouldnt include the correct amount of symbols. I know Im 100% right without a doubt. And why would casinos miss out on some 30-40% more wagering?

And on a personal experience on Thunderstruck I have had the exactly same one nudge away from 5 hammers on line 2 and reel 2 40+ times without a single time getting them. The same on Tally Ho and 5 male foxes, line 5 reel 2 at least 30+ times.

But some people believe whats written in the bible too.

[zap987]

So please give us your proof that this is how it works. There are enough people here claiming slots are rigged in different ways but I've yet to see any proof.

They did fix the issue on Scary Rich pretty fast btw, the one where expanding wilds in freespins would overwrite scatters and not produce retriggers.

[spiderlegz]

So please give us your proof that this is how it works. There are enough people here claiming slots are rigged in different ways but I've yet to see any proof.

They did fix the issue on Scary Rich pretty fast btw, the one where expanding wilds in freespins would overwrite scatters and not produce retriggers.

Have I ever claimed they are rigged? Theres no point in "rigging" a game with huge HA.

I know Im right so you can believe what you want. Its pointless to argue about it any further. There will never be any solid proof but after analyzing what I have seen and heard (from reliable sources) I am 100% sure without a doubt that Im right. And Im talking about the near-misses not how slots truly work.

[zap987]

Near misses can be built into the design of the reels and of course a lot of slots are designed this way. Many slots for example have a higher chance to give scatters on the first reels.

And yes, when you state that the wins aren't determined by the reel stops you are stating that the slots are rigged beyond the built in HA, just like everyone saying that bet size, previous results or anything else matters are saying slots are rigged.

[Zoozie]

It is very simple to argue the it is a software error. What if you have a two line wins, should they only pay one of them? What about a line win and scatters?
Or feature trigger combined with line wins?

It had a quite identical bug with Net Entertainment with the "Super Lucky Frog"
that you can find by searching the forum. And my experience was quite identical to yours. CS at first refused there was anything wrong, but after
they had talked to the software provider, they changed their minds and I was compensated. There are more examples of this. My point is that CS never understands the games, they are there to take care of payment/bonus problems. And you are lucky if they are any help at all.

There are a very few exceptions. I have had good experience 3Dice and 32Red etc. Also they do not have the CS outsourced.

A little note on the weighted/rigged/near-wins video-slot conspiracy. KK has answered that, read the threads and understand how much work that
was put into this and how overwhelming the evidence is. It is not an amazing coincidence that we found the reels of some WagerWorks slot
and analyzed the payout assuming no weights and ending up with the same published payout% with all 4 digits ? WW, MG, 3Dice - I guarantee these
video-slots are not weighted. (except the oldest 5-line MG video-slots). Also the whole definition and reason video-slots was invented was
just to make non-weighted slots. And besides that it is illegal in some countries (australia etc.) to use weighted reels. And there is no reason
to do it, the 5% house edge is so gigantic it is already a scam in itself.

[3Dice]

And on a personal experience on Thunderstruck I have had the exactly same one nudge away from 5 hammers on line 2 and reel 2 40+ times without a single time getting them. The same on Tally Ho and 5 male foxes, line 5 reel 2 at least 30+ times.

Hi Spiderlegz,

I know we've been here before .. but you know I wouldn't be true to myself if I gave up on trying to help you understand. Lets examine this quote of yours a little bit. Is this quote .. namely seeing more 'near-wins' than actual wins so unexpected if slots are unweighted, and wins determined by symbols - not the other way around as you sugest ?

Imagine betting only the center-line on thunderstruck. Lets assume there's only one hammer symbol on each reel. Now if we put the reels in every possible combination, we'll see that there's only 1 occurence of 5 hammers on the center line .. but .. there's 10 combinations with 4 hammers on the centerline and 1 hammer above or below that winline. This means that what you define as a 'near-win' occurs 10 times more than the big hit.

So 10 out of 11 times you'll have a near-win .. with unweighted perfectly random reels (server draws positions - not results) .. you should still expect to see a whole bunch of what you call 'near-wins' for every actual win. (magnitude 10 times more .. and thats assuming you don't feel 3 hammers on centerline and 2 off is also a near-win cause then we'd be talking 90 times more .. on average .. seeing 4 with one off 20 times before hitting it still has a probablity of 15% ((10/11)^20) and 40 times still clocks in at 2.2% ((10/11)^40) .. so more than 1 in 50 people will see the near-win 40 times before hitting it.).

In conclusion, your observations do not - at all - imply the conclusions you draw from them. Near-wins occur naturally in slot machines - as a designer - you couldn't avoid them if you wanted to. It is an aspect that in slots is much more prominently present than in e.g. cardgames where often for every win - there's only 2 'near-wins' (one card higher or lower).

Enzo

[spiderlegz]

Hi Spiderlegz,

I know we've been here before .. but you know I wouldn't be true to myself if I gave up on trying to help you understand. Lets examine this quote of yours a little bit. Is this quote .. namely seeing more 'near-wins' than actual wins so unexpected if slots are unweighted, and wins determined by symbols - not the other way around as you sugest ?

Imagine betting only the center-line on thunderstruck. Lets assume there's only one hammer symbol on each reel. Now if we put the reels in every possible combination, we'll see that there's only 1 occurence of 5 hammers on the center line .. but .. there's 10 combinations with 4 hammers on the centerline and 1 hammer above or below that winline. This means that what you define as a 'near-win' occurs 10 times more than the big hit.

So 10 out of 11 times you'll have a near-win .. with unweighted perfectly random reels (server draws positions - not results) .. you should still expect to see a whole bunch of what you call 'near-wins' for every actual win. (magnitude 10 times more .. and thats assuming you don't feel 3 hammers on centerline and 2 off is also a near-win cause then we'd be talking 90 times more .. on average .. seeing 4 with one off 20 times before hitting it still has a probablity of 15% ((10/11)^20) and 40 times still clocks in at 2.2% ((10/11)^40) .. so more than 1 in 50 people will see the near-win 40 times before hitting it.).

In conclusion, your observations do not - at all - imply the conclusions you draw from them. Near-wins occur naturally in slot machines - as a designer - you couldn't avoid them if you wanted to. It is an aspect that in slots is much more prominently present than in e.g. cardgames where often for every win - there's only 2 'near-wins' (one card higher or lower).

Enzo

I actually said on line 2 and reel 2. The symbols then being H,W,H,H,H where the Hammer is under the Wand. I didnt mention other than reel 2.

I still fully trust my sources. The one who openly would admit it would "kakka i eget bo". If had access to my deleted mails from 2006 I would have solid proof.

And to my understanding I have never claimed that the reels wouldnt relate to the actual propabilities.

The most simple argument that supports me is TR=Q*P where Q is wagering and P is the HA. As the amount of near-misses strongly correlates to the amount of Q an increase in them would also increase the TR with same % as the increase of Q.

I will provide some more and exact calculations if I feel motivated enough.