Casino Club - bogus complaint

[spearmaster]

Before I give away more and solid informations (and I will, as soon as possible and as requested), I want to make a reminding note towards my thread-opening intention: To me it is not acceptable that Casino Club has its customer service (and other operations) in Israel, while the same personal claims repeatingly on the phone and in emails to be actually sitting in Malta.
And: I never had any trouble with them.

If the person says that they are licensed in Malta, that would be correct. If the person says that they have an office in Malta, that is probably correct.

If the person says "I am in Malta", they might actually be in Malta but using the mail servers in Israel.

I would need to see the actual context before determining whether the person in question is telling the truth or not.

Get this: I called for free 0800-664-4875 to Casino Club's advertised customer service to again talk about their "secret?" location. A suddenly studdering young lady on the other side of the line couldn't even name her city "in Malta!", as she probably still doesn't know where the country itself is actually located on the map; soon later the line was cut off, without me hanging up. And when I dialed xxx minutes later during the same nightshift (as adviced in a German casino forum), the very same person answered the call. - I was shocked; and only told her that I forgot to say good night.

LOL. Have to say that's funny - but as you know dialing a phone number does not necessarily mean an actual location either. People call me on my Thailand phone number all the time - but a lot of the time I am not physically present in Thailand. If they were to call my office, I could also have those calls forwarded to my cell number. And I can obtain a number of phone numbers in different countries which forward to my Thailand office number.

I'm not saying you're not telling the truth, by any means - but the reasoning you are using is really not solid enough to go on.

[cyprean]

Just a quick admin note that "posting of the week" nominations and "thanks" are to be given to helpful, and/or postings worthy of nomination for excellence.

Nominating a post like Tofu's where he bashes another forum member (CasinoClub is a member BTW), is not what this program is meant for. These "thanks" and nomination have been removed.

Please be a bit more discerning when it comes to thanking people or nominating posts. Thank you.

I am not sure if the best course of action is to remove thanks/nominations. I hope that that the players can decide for themselves what posts they want to thank and nominate. If you wish that people use the nomination tool and thanks tool you shouldn't remove these thanks/nominations unless the original post is being untruthful.

Bashing is of course unwanted, but I think there is atleast some truth behind Tofu's statements. Casino-club has confiscated winnings of people who have not used bots but rather used the bot clause as an excuse. Of course there are real botters out there, but I think those players who haven't used one shouldn't suffer in either way.

A part of the problem why Tofu's topic is here instead of casino complaints is because the new rules do not allow people who have less than 100 posts to post at the complaint ssections. Still people feel that they need to warn about roguish operations.

[SteveCut]

Casinomeister wrote:
Nominating a post like Tofu's where he bashes another forum member (CasinoClub is a member BTW), is not what this program is meant for. These "thanks" and nomination have been removed.

Well, I don't agree with this action, but that's your prerogative. Whilst I understand that Tofu23 is not flavour of the month (apologies for the excruciating pun), he obviously feels very strongly that Casino Club appear to have escaped scot free from the Heffernan case http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/...ot-no-bot.html. I too am worried about this and that is why I, for one, "thanked" him. But you are right, he offered no specific or constructive criticism, so I'll try to put that right.

ISTM that this thread is about the honesty and integrity of Casino Club. So let's address this in the aftermath of "Heffernan":

1) CC would appear to have lied to Casinomeister about the quantity and duration of Heffernan's breaks. CM stated that Heffernan played for 14 hours "with virtually no breaks". Kimss' analysis subsequently showed that H had taken a total of 21 breaks of 2 minutes or more, totalling over 3 hours!

2) CC originally posted only 90% of the logs. It would appear that much of the break time was coincidentally recorded in the missing 10%. In the absence of any clarification from CC we can only draw our own conclusions as to why this 10% was omitted.

3) At the time of the PAB denial CM acted under a misapprehension about the structure of the logs (re. no successive wins). The fact that in the course of their (presumably detailed) discussions Casino Club did not relieve him of this misapprehension would suggest that they
a) lied
b) did not clarify, because they didn't want him to understand what had really happened.
c) they, themselves, don't understand the logs and based their "bot abuser" verdict upon erroneous information.

4) The overwhelming opinion of the experts on this and other forums was that study of the logs show that this player was definitely not using a bot strategy. Jufo put it best:

He takes huge risks and almost loses it all - many times! The bots are used in completely opposite scenario: making very low-risk wagers to complete the wagering requirements.

So how did CC arrive at "bot abuse"? Was it incompetence or "bot excuse"?

Not wishing to be negative, I'll leave you with three positive words.
Three things I would wish for from an online casino:
honesty
integrity
competence

Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to apply these words to Casino Club.
dudlyder, dudlyder, dudlyder, dudud. dud duddud dud dud...

[Ilana]

Dear spearmaster,


Thank you for your message.

You say besides other things that my "reasoning is really not solid enough to go on". Before I go ahead anyway and bring up, as promised, further evidence for my case, let me in this post only check if I got your picture right, just for verification, without complaint, but with thanks in advance: Do you actually suggest that Casino Club's leading operations staff is working in Israel, including their manager and security personal (as documented by themselves) etc., but the casino itself takes maybe place on servers in Malta, while the customer service, of which the operations manager in Israel is in charge of, finds itself located in an unnamed city in Malta, when their mails on the other hand come from an Israeli server as their in- and outcoming calls are forwarded via Israeli landline telephone numbers, as if there wouldn't be any easier solutions?

BTW: What would you make out of these two links if you would have to connect them: link1 & link2


Good luck to all!

[Ilana]

No answer is an answer here - thanks.

BTW: "link1" used to say: "Online Casino. The best online casino belongs to Nearme! It will be a White Label of xxx and Gaming VC." (Screenshot)
On many other Israeli webpages connected to Gaming VC that I discovered and linked the content have been changed or deleted completely, and Casino Club's new (mis)managers continue to take their own profiles off the net. So sad, so funny.
At least two new casino brands will be launched in the second half of the year by Gaming VC, without showing themselves as a part of these projects. The new brands will primarily be targeted at customers outside of Germany - so some of you better all be very careful; because some things are totally illegal in Israel, will always be.

_________________

Gaming VC note for investors, 18 September 2008: "The overall administration costs are expected to increase slightly in the second half of the year with the opening of an in-house customer service centre for Casino Club in July 2008."
Explanation: The customer service, formerly managed by Webdollar (aka Boss Media) in Sweden, is since last July in Gaming VC's own hands in Israel and nowhere else. It went from Europe to the Middle East, from one company to another and has NEVER met with anybody in Malta. However, Gaming VC Israel still lies about that fact to all players (and affiliates) of Casino Club, Poker Kings etc.

When the Casino Club customer service was with Webdollar in Boss Media's hands it was relatively reliable, friendly and fair, giving the brand a good name. This has changed drastically under the new Israeli management and everybody can google a whole list of complaints about Gaming VC in multiple languages since then. Pure facts of a bad story.


Good luck to all!

[SteveCut]

Ilana, I have criticisms of Casino Club too, which i have already posted in this thread. My criticisms are based purely upon my observations, I have no personal grudge against them.

However you seem to be actively seeking out anything to criticise, and you don't seem to be coming up with much! Maybe you should come clean about your real problem with Casino Club?

[RobWin]

Ilana, I have criticisms of Casino Club too, which i have already posted in this thread. My criticisms are based purely upon my observations, I have no personal grudge against them.

However you seem to be actively seeking out anything to criticise, and you don't seem to be coming up with much! Maybe you should come clean about your real problem with Casino Club?

I thought he already had, Location...Location...Location

[BingoBomb]

I was told that one reason that Israeli contact center staff try to avoid mentioning that they are in Israel is that they want to avoid bringing politics into the equation. Many people do have very strong opinions about what is going on in Israel, especially with the current situation in Gaza, and I would understand that having a support call turn into a political or religious discussion - or worse - would be something most of the staff would want to avoid.

[spearmaster]

Sorry, I completely missed this message...

You say besides other things that my "reasoning is really not solid enough to go on". Before I go ahead anyway and bring up, as promised, further evidence for my case, let me in this post only check if I got your picture right, just for verification, without complaint, but with thanks in advance: Do you actually suggest that Casino Club's leading operations staff is working in Israel, including their manager and security personal (as documented by themselves) etc., but the casino itself takes maybe place on servers in Malta, while the customer service, of which the operations manager in Israel is in charge of, finds itself located in an unnamed city in Malta, when their mails on the other hand come from an Israeli server as their in- and outcoming calls are forwarded via Israeli landline telephone numbers, as if there wouldn't be any easier solutions?

I made no suggestion at all. The only requirements for having a Malta gaming license, I believe, are to have the servers located there, and to have a registered office there.

I do not know the physical locations of the staff of Casino Club or Gaming VC as I do not work with them, although I do meet some of their staff at various conventions, and have had email correspondence with Gaming VC's current chairman.

That said - I know of operations which have offices and staff in 3-4 countries, so I do not find such a setup unusual.

BTW: What would you make out of these two links if you would have to connect them: link1 & link2

Unfortunately, I didn't see this until today - but if you click on the first link, you will see not a whole heck of a lot.

The second link tells me nothing. I am not a member of LinkedIn so I cannot view any information beyond this page.

[vinylweatherman]

No answer is an answer here - thanks.

BTW: "link1" used to say: "Online Casino. The best online casino belongs to Nearme! It will be a White Label of xxx and Gaming VC." (Screenshot)
On many other Israeli webpages connected to Gaming VC that I discovered and linked the content have been changed or deleted completely, and Casino Club's new (mis)managers continue to take their own profiles off the net. So sad, so funny.
At least two new casino brands will be launched in the second half of the year by Gaming VC, without showing themselves as a part of these projects. The new brands will primarily be targeted at customers outside of Germany - so some of you better all be very careful; because some things are totally illegal in Israel, will always be.

_________________

Gaming VC note for investors, 18 September 2008: "The overall administration costs are expected to increase slightly in the second half of the year with the opening of an in-house customer service centre for Casino Club in July 2008."
Explanation: The customer service, formerly managed by Webdollar (aka Boss Media) in Sweden, is since last July in Gaming VC's own hands in Israel and nowhere else. It went from Europe to the Middle East, from one company to another and has NEVER met with anybody in Malta. However, Gaming VC Israel still lies about that fact to all players (and affiliates) of Casino Club, Poker Kings etc.

When the Casino Club customer service was with Webdollar in Boss Media's hands it was relatively reliable, friendly and fair, giving the brand a good name. This has changed drastically under the new Israeli management and everybody can google a whole list of complaints about Gaming VC in multiple languages since then. Pure facts of a bad story.


Good luck to all!

Well, this would be a really stupid move on their part. So far, your evidence has been taken with a "pinch of salt", but as they say "there's no smoke without fire", and making mass changes to their web presence could easily be detected by use of web archives of the relevant sites. Show a whole load of their sites replacing "useful information" with a load of bland "spin", or nothing at all, then you have the "smoke", which might indicate there is indeed a "fire" that needs looking for.

If this is a case of "under new management", then it is well worth CM keeping an eye on them. Remember Kiwi and Fastwin casinos, both accredited, but then were sold to new management. They were allowed to drift into mediocre performance while still accredited based on the performance of the previous management. Later though, they were caught out offering promotions on their website, but telling depositing players they were cancelled 6 months prior, and that the website (for THEIR casinos) was nothing to do with them with regard to updating promotions. Not long after, they drifted into full rogue territory with non-payment "bonus abuse" and "F U Clause" issues.

This "turning a CS call into a political debate" is complete bollox, why should any player not have the RIGHT to exercise their displeasure with Israeli politics by having nothing to do with an Israeli business. If any CS call deviates from the subject at hand and sink into a political argument then CS staff can cut the call, and management can tell the player their account will be permanently closed if they continue to bring politics into CS issues.

It should now be clear than Casino Club is an Israeli owned operation, with a gaming licence in Malta, and at least a registered office. CS and management can be anywhere, but I would take a dim view of ANY casino operator that has to hide behind false details, or refuses to be specific about who owns them, and in particular what connections they have with other casinos.
Knowing about group connections is important because many casino Terms and Conditions have paragraphs that restrict benefits to so many times throughout the group, so it is necessary to know what casinos constitute this group. If they are going to be throwing off masses of white label operations, this could easily lead to a mess where players do not know whether they are playing at several different casinos, or one casino with several skins.