Rival Bonus Ban explained with permission from casino rep

[Casinomeister]

I'm glad Jason told me what he did and he was completely upfront about it. Whether we think the policy is unreasonable or not, we are now able to form our own opinion and make our decisions to play at Rival based upon his disclosure. Until now, we have not had that courtesy and I appreciate that he extended it to us.

Quick question: did you only play with bonuses or did you just use these occasionally?

[KasinoKing]

So now you all know the rules. Wager at least 130% of your D+B after meeting WR and you'll live happily ever after in Rival BonusLand.

I can hardly believe what Jason wrote!
You can not possibly be a bonus abuser if you meet the stipulated WR (in accordance with all their terms) & cash out.
All you can be is very lucky in that particular instance.
So what are the casinos saying - get lucky & get lost!

Once again we have a casino policy based on (sorry I have to say this) ignorance of the simplest of mathamatics... the mathematics which gives these bonuses a house edge making them just the same as playing any other casino game without a bonus:-

Okay, assumptions:

1/ 100% cashable slots bonus with 30x WR.

2/ RTP at 95% on average

3/ No min cashout.

Anyway, with the 3 assumptions listed above and the player just meeting the 30x WR who should fare better the casino or the player.

Lets say a $100 deposit + $100 bonus = start with $200
WR (Bx30)= 3,000
3,000 x 95% return = a loss of $150
Therefore on average the player will lose all the bonus and $50 of his deposit.

What will he do then? Cash out?
I very much doubt it - he is far more likely to play on & try to win his $50 back. Odds are he wont succeed & the casino gets to keep the whole deposit.

Of course I agree the casinos have the right to 'bonus ban' anyone they see fit (after paying them of course), but calling it 'bonus abuse' is totally absurd.
Banning people from bonuses like this is also extremely ignorant & blinkered IMO; players who win & cash out are far more likely to come back & deposit again, giving the casino the chance to win their losses back. Ban them & they'll never play again & the casinos will never get their money back!

My 2c.

[s3rp]

Hi there,

me happend the same as 2young.

Paradise was my first Rival OC i ever played and my first OC i ever played.

So i used the welcome bonus and i am playing 3 days and then i met the wagering requirements. My deposit was $100. There was 1x min Cashout and no max. cashout.

Shorty before i have met the wagering req. i got a "Monster" in freespins @Scary Rich. This round ended with approx. $ 1250.

I withrew $ 1800 without any problems. After that i played serveral times without using a bonus and i got banned from any bonusses.

greetz s3rp

[Mousey]

I think most of us 'old timers' have known that the majority of casinos have this same or similar 'secret' rule about playing past your WR....

But the casinos have to see it from the players side, too. If WR are not really 30x B+D (or whatever) then that is a lie -- or at least deceit... And we become bonus abusers for accepting and playing bonuses offered BY the casino and playing by THEIR terms. **sigh**

I can play elsewhere... and I usually lose, bonus or no bonus ...

I just hate it that we're held to T&C that aren't there. (And this applies to any casino with 'secret' WR, not just Rivals.)

[vinylweatherman]

Sadly, the explanation is inconsistent with the situation.

IF the bonuses offered were +EV if wagered to the exact letter of the WR, and such bonuses were "unlimited", then the explanation offered is a valid one.

This is not the case however, the stated "abuse" strategy is an overall winner for the CASINO, so they should be ENCOURAGING this kind of play, offering yet another bonus to get yet another deposit that might well have ended up with a competitor (where it most certainly WILL end up after a player has been bonus banned).

It gets even weirder

Next night, I log on to the casino and begin to play. Hey, wait a minute. I can't choose a .10 coin size! The highest I can choose is a .05. OK, that's weird, but I'll go ahead and play a little. I played a few games and then noticed that my comp points had not increased at all since I logged into the casino. Hey, that's weird too!

This is irrelevant if the "abuse" is merely cashing out on the dot after meeting WR. THIS action is inconsistent with the explanation given by Jason.

As to the 130% rule, why bother have the T & C set at only 70% of what you REALLY expect the player to wager. Raise the WR such that the danger of -EV play for the casino vanishes.

Is the reason they DON'T do this because they are DELIBERATELY setting out to MISLEAD players with terms that are NOT the REAL ones, and because were players aware of the REAL rules, they might play elsewhere.

This is a deception, and should not be tolerated. The casinos must make available the CORRECT rules. The fact that Rival have been clinging on to keeping this SECRET is most damning of Rival indeed.

While the CM stance is that there is no obligation on casinos to offer bonuses, there is however, and obligations on them to TELL THE TRUTH in their terms and conditions, so that players are FULLY AWARE of the rules BEFORE they give their MONEY to the casinos.

WHY THE BLOODY HELL do these Rival casinos STILL ALLOW BONUSES AT EVERY SINGLE CASINO IN THE GROUP. Many casinos have a far more honest approach, and stipulate that bonuses are only available to ONE of the accounts a player has in an entire group - this would get rid of problems where a single player consecutively "abuses" a 250% offer at all the Rival casinos on their desktop.

[zebedy]

where ever i play nowadays (which is rare) i always like to take a bonus as it does extend playing time and so i get more enjoyment, i noticed that at most rivals the bonuses i have recieved are few and far between or come with absurd WR, 50x on a 15-20% bonus ect,

if they want to do that then its fine with me, all it means is that ill deposit and play elsewhere, so there not going to make any money from me,

IMO banning people from bonuses and saying there bonus abusers even after following all the WR and T&Cs tells me im not a valued customer at there casino, so they lose me as a customer,
wheres the business logic in that

[1819]

I'm glad Jason told me what he did and he was completely upfront about it. Whether we think the policy is unreasonable or not, we are now able to form our own opinion and make our decisions to play at Rival based upon his disclosure. Until now, we have not had that courtesy and I appreciate that he extended it to us.

our own opinion should be not to deposit one more dime in any rival casino. i do not use bonus' but will not deposit one more cent until this b.s. is put in writing on the t&c's page. that is classic rogue behavior. their definition of bonus abuse is just an opinion of what they think is fair. that's insane. if what jason said is true then it should be in writing on the casino sites. any and all rival reps, who read this thread, should comment and do what they can to fix this problem. the classic "software is designed that way" is not an acceptable excuse. i am never surprised by casino tactics and i'm sure this is a very common practice but i am surprised it came from this group. shame on you rival and you have lost a customer........

[2young2care]

Sadly, the explanation is inconsistent with the situation.

IF the bonuses offered were +EV if wagered to the exact letter of the WR, and such bonuses were "unlimited", then the explanation offered is a valid one.

This is not the case however, the stated "abuse" strategy is an overall winner for the CASINO, so they should be ENCOURAGING this kind of play, offering yet another bonus to get yet another deposit that might well have ended up with a competitor (where it most certainly WILL end up after a player has been bonus banned).

It gets even weirder



This is irrelevant if the "abuse" is merely cashing out on the dot after meeting WR. THIS action is inconsistent with the explanation given by Jason.

As to the 130% rule, why bother have the T & C set at only 70% of what you REALLY expect the player to wager. Raise the WR such that the danger of -EV play for the casino vanishes.

Is the reason they DON'T do this because they are DELIBERATELY setting out to MISLEAD players with terms that are NOT the REAL ones, and because were players aware of the REAL rules, they might play elsewhere.

This is a deception, and should not be tolerated. The casinos must make available the CORRECT rules. The fact that Rival have been clinging on to keeping this SECRET is most damning of Rival indeed.

While the CM stance is that there is no obligation on casinos to offer bonuses, there is however, and obligations on them to TELL THE TRUTH in their terms and conditions, so that players are FULLY AWARE of the rules BEFORE they give their MONEY to the casinos.

WHY THE BLOODY HELL do these Rival casinos STILL ALLOW BONUSES AT EVERY SINGLE CASINO IN THE GROUP. Many casinos have a far more honest approach, and stipulate that bonuses are only available to ONE of the accounts a player has in an entire group - this would get rid of problems where a single player consecutively "abuses" a 250% offer at all the Rival casinos on their desktop.

VWM, I did ask Jason why my coin size was limited and comp points frozen during my play. If these actions are part of being bonus banned and I was bonus banned because of my previous cashouts, WHY was I offered this 250% bonus and able to claim it in the first place? I had not finished my WR for this bonus, nor had I made any attempt to cash out yet. Jason didn't address that particular inquiry I had made, but he did make it clear that if I choose to play at Paradise 8 in the future that I will not receive comp points and my coin size will be limited. I chalked it up to winning so much from a $25 deposit.

I posted this information so members can make a truly informed decision about whether they want to continue to accept bonuses from Rival since there is more to these bonuses than meets the eye. Nothing more, nothing less.

[chuchu59]

Quick question: did you only play with bonuses or did you just use these occasionally?

Dont know whether 2young2care only played with bonuses or occasionally so but I claimed most bonuses I thought were good deals and also deposited a lot without bonuses. I was told by someone who has some connections with Rival that I could have been flagged for bonus abuse because I just played the bare minimum (ie just meeting WRs) when claiming bonuses. Others might not have been flagged because they played more. Little did I know that this means playing 130% more.

So even if you continue to deposit many times without taking bonuses this doesnt change their stance one bit. From experience, other casinos that I patronised in the past would direct these accusations ie 'bonus abuser' only at those who hit and run with a bonus but not at repeat customers though Rival does seem to think otherwise.

[2young2care]

Quick question: did you only play with bonuses or did you just use these occasionally?

Bryan, I've gone back through my history at Paradise 8 and have a short one. I have cashed out 3 times in the past, so I know these were bonus plays. I have a few other deposits there which probably were made with bonuses. I know I have played at a few other Rivals without bonuses, but I doubt that I have at this particular one. As Mousey said above, the old-timers know these "unspoken" rules. I did not.

I use bonuses.... ALOT. I follow the rules connected with these bonuses and never whine when I lose... ALOT. I am not whining now. Rival is perfectly within their rights to not offer bonuses to me. My only wish is that had I known of these rules beforehand, I would have adhered to them or just not accepted the bonus. So I made this post so that other members who have had the same thing happen to them would now know why. And other members who haven't had it happen to them yet can take steps proactively to avoid being the next person to be bonus banned.