Is "Some" Microgaming Casinos becoming

[GaryWatson]

And as mentioned earlier, why don't casinos put up messages on their homepage saying no more than one bonus with their group of casinos. It would make it to easy for the players to decide to have only one account with their group of casinos and not one with all the casinos in their group, that seems to be offering a nice sign up bonus, until you try to use it!

I would go further and insist that they do the checking on their end before it comes to payout or locking an account.

Many players are just casual users. They google "online casino" and signup from a mind boggling list of sites. I dont think they need to do a massive study on whether or not they have been on the site, if they have been on one of the sister sites. They shouldnt need a degree in contract law to go through terms which commonly affect them.

I agree. It is the sites fault. Sure there are bonus abusers, etc. but in the most part it is just casual players who havent done a six months study on the site who fall foul of their terms


Furthermore:

Please be advised, In compliance with upholding our e-Cogra seal, your gaming account with Grand Privé has been closed and any balances / cash-ins frozen, for the period of the next 6 months. Once this time-frame has passed, your account and any pending funds will be made available to you once again.

This indicates that it is a penalty. There is no reason to hold the funds other than collect interest. They have concluded their findings. I consider that term invalid and certainly not in compliance of the eCogra Seal

eCOGRA’s Players Seal of Approval is awarded to those casinos which have achieved compliance with eCOGRA’s high standards and demonstrated that:

* Games are fair
* The casino operates honestly and behaves responsibly
* Monetary deposits are safe and winning bets are paid in a timely manner.

If anything, it is going against it. I can understand a 6 month holding time but only in the context of an investigation. That has been completed.

[USA2112]

I would go further and insist that they do the checking on their end before it comes to payout or locking an account.

Many players are just casual users. They google "online casino" and signup from a mind boggling list of sites. I dont think they need to do a massive study on whether or not they have been on the site, if they have been on one of the sister sites. They shouldnt need a degree in contract law to go through terms which commonly affect them.

I agree. It is the sites fault. Sure there are bonus abusers, etc. but in the most part it is just casual players who havent done a six months study on the site who fall foul of their terms

Yep, how many times do you hear the words bonus abuse, almost every complaint that has to do with a player and a casino.

The casinos can keep crying wolf all they want when it is legit, but the rediculous terms need to go. In the long run it will come back and bite hard. The longer sites exsist that discuss these type of matters the more educated even the newbies become which means less sign ups for the casinos down the road that use these type of terms.

[mishun]

Dear Mishun,

We have investigated your query with the casino and have made the following findings:

· Your account was also linked to another account through identifiers.

· For security reasons we are not at liberty to disclose the nature of the identifiers.

· You have therefore breached the site’s Terms and Conditions


Bearing the above in mind, I agree with the casino’s decision to lock your account for 6 months. At that time your exclusion will be over and you can choose to withdraw the funds from your account - once they have been able to complete ID verification.

So there you have it. The only account I had with them was in 2006. I owe them NO MONIES and NEVER MADE A WITHDRAWAL. Yet and still they decided to keep my deposit. I don't want anything from them accept my deposit. Tex isn't any good. How can you justify keeping one's deposit? Why lock my money for 6 months and then give it back to me?

SO now should I begin my chargeback process?

[RobWin]

Dear Mishun,

We have investigated your query with the casino and have made the following findings:

· Your account was also linked to another account through identifiers.

· For security reasons we are not at liberty to disclose the nature of the identifiers.

· You have therefore breached the site’s Terms and Conditions


Bearing the above in mind, I agree with the casino’s decision to lock your account for 6 months. At that time your exclusion will be over and you can choose to withdraw the funds from your account - once they have been able to complete ID verification.
So there you have it. The only account I had with them was in 2006. I owe them NO MONIES. Yet and still they decided to keep my deposit. I don't want anything from them accept my deposit. Tex isn't any good. How can you justify keeping one's deposit? Why lock my money for 6 months and then give it back to me?

SO now should I begin my chargeback process?

So apparently it's OK with eCOGRA that this ROGUE Casino..IMO..can keep her money now for 6 MONTHS !! you've got to be shitting me...is eCOGRA for real on this decision ? God help us if they are because they are not doing any justice for the player community in that decision and I am tired of upholding them now...

Lock her account fine eCOGRA but give her damn money back...again you've got to be F*****g Kidding Me !!!

So eCOGRA is also saying that the casino needs 6 MONTHS to be able to complete ID verification...eCOGRA what in the hell are you guys thinking over there ?

Gawd, I think I could chew 16p nails right now after reading that lameass decision there by eCOGRA...

[c_note]

Jetset was the only person to raise a VERY valid point, and no one has picked up on it..

..to a possibly self-exclusion (ie problem gambling) request.

And then included in Michuns message

..At that time your exclusion will be over and you can choose to withdraw the funds from your account

The only place 6 months comes into play with ECOGRA is the 6 month self exclusion request. If you requested to be excluded for 6 months on one of their other brands due to a gambling problem, then they are right to block this account if the 6 month period is still active. But, in my opinion, they should return the balance of your account to you if you request it. But thats just my 1 cents worth..

[RobWin]

Well they can do whatever they want but NO BODY has the right just to hold onto your money for 6 MONTHS !!

[mishun]

Jetset was the only person to raise a VERY valid point, and no one has picked up on it..



And then included in Michuns message



The only place 6 months comes into play with ECOGRA is the 6 month self exclusion request. If you requested to be excluded for 6 months on one of their other brands due to a gambling problem, then they are right to block this account if the 6 month period is still active. But, in my opinion, they should return the balance of your account to you if you request it. But thats just my 1 cents worth..

No I have not asked to be excluded. Remember my account was in 2006. Its now Feb, 2008 any 6 month exclusion would have been over with (twice). Its was risk management decision to withhold my deposit once I told them I would consider a chargeback.

[c_note]

Mishun, Thanks for confirming that. And now we know exactly why they are holding onto your deposit for 6 months.

If you threaten a casino with a chargeback, you can almost take it for granted that they will lock your account and hold onto your money until that 6 month period is up. It's 6 months because that is the average time most banks will allow to pass from the date of a deposit till a chargeback can still be requested. The ONLY way a casino can prevent a chargeback is to refund the original deposits, and Visa/MasterCard impose very strict limits on how much can be refunded (up until very recently, Mastercard deposits could not be refunded at all. Now they can be, but it is a huge process to get to the stage where you can actually perform the refunds).

If they give you the money via another method, there is nothing preventing you from then charging back through your bank. So the casino winds up being nailed for the money they sent you, your original deposit and the chargeback fees at between $20 and $100 per transaction. And if you are a VIP with tons of transactions (or just have lots of $20 deposits), charging back can cost the casino their rights to accept credit & debit cards (and tens of thousands of dollars in additional fines from Visa & MasterCard)

I am not saying what the casino is doing in this case (up until the chargeback threat) was right. I am just telling you that if you cry wolf and threaten chargebacks (even if the reason for the chargeback is valid), the casinos will consider you as a potentially very hostile and expensive business risk, and treat you as such.

[vinylweatherman]

This chargeback risk is undoubtedly the reason for this 6 month hold. There IS, however, a problem with this. A rogue casino could simply stall for 6 months with this, and then CONFISCATE THE DEPOSIT ANYWAY!
Because of the torrent of player screw-overs that have been happening of late, there is now far less trust between player and casino than there was in the past.
The "multiple account" business is bollox, and coming from eCogra I am shocked!!! This player ADMITS that they had an old account from 2006, and was caught out by this "group" rule introduced more recently, there really is no need for this "security reasons" BS being used as a means to wriggle out of trying to sort this out.
This player clearly "wants out" of online gambling altogether, and does not need to be hanging around for 6 months to sort out this issue. This ruling has made it far more likely that a chargeback will be actioned simply to get out of waiting 6 months for what will be, in effect, the exact same result, and without the need to jump through ID and document hoops in 6 months time. Indeed, after 6 more months of UIGEA, will it even be POSSIBLE for Grand Prive to refund the deposit?

Casinos are VERY VERY AFRAID of the "chargeback", this is probably the strongest weapon in the player's arsenal, however, once used, that player will be most likely barred from EVER being able to play online again.

[c_note]

Indeed, after 6 more months of UIGEA, will it even be POSSIBLE for Grand Prive to refund the deposit?

Casinos have been unable to refund deposits for a few years now. UIGEA had nothing to do with casinos being unable to refund. Every now and then, a Casino can find a loophole or willing bank and do it, but it does not last for long. Those using tier 1 banks for processing can do it legit (Its called OFT or CFT), but not to US or Canadian cards thanks to visa/MC Regulations. If Grand Prive could refund the transaction now, then this would have happened. Since they cannot, they are sitting on it till they feel safe.

Casinos are VERY VERY AFRAID of the "chargeback", this is probably the strongest weapon in the player's arsenal, however, once used, that player will be most likely barred from EVER being able to play online again.

It does not need to be used. As with Mishuns case, It just needs to be threatened. Its like carrying a knife in the street. If you pull it out, make sure you need to use it and the person (casino) you will use it on is not carrying a gun (global negative database, black lists and more).

A rogue casino could simply stall for 6 months with this, and then CONFISCATE THE DEPOSIT ANYWAY!

Yep, they will, they wont even need the threat of chargeback to do it. They just close your account, invoke the "Management Says bye bye" rule, and stops responding to your emails. THATS when you should be charging back. Some banks only give you 1 month (or 1 statement period) to chargeback on, some give you 2 years. 6 Months is about average.