Why casinos do what they do??

[anniemac]

I received a $50 free chip this morning from a group of casinos that I have deposited at heavily. Yippee!! However, the playthrough was $1000 and the minimum/maximum cashout was $500. So I could only cashout if I had made $1000 playthrough and had $500. Well, so now I am thinking this was like RTG playmoney.

So I started playing. Max bet at $.75. To make a long story short, the highest balance I ever got was $116.90. The most I ever won on a free spin was $43.50 and one set of 10 spins only got me $1.50.

Now it seems to me that if I were trying to get players to deposit, I wouldn't be quite so blatant about making it impossible for them to win.

I might just chalk it up to bad luck if I had not been playing at this particular group of casinos for well over a year and almost daily at that.

If casinos want players to return and spend money, they need to let them win a little bit not just get screwed every deposit without so much as a kiss. I know that I won't win all the time, that's not their job but it really makes me want to be a return depositor when it's impossible to begin with this the unreasonable playthroughs and maxcashouts and then to have the actually play be so crappy. Come on guys, be a little smarter in your marketing.

[lojo]

I agree... do some of them think all they have to do is show you the pictures and hope you get an almost win, so you'll deposit?

What I would do with that sort of bonus is play five lines on fruit frenzy (did I get this idea from vwm? don't recall) It's a high variance and IF you get the bonus round you would get free spins at all 25 lines. But I would have bet 2.50 or $5 per spin... nothing ventured, nothing gained.

[AudiManinBoro]

I agree... do some of them think all they have to do is show you the pictures and hope you get an almost win, so you'll deposit?

What I would do with that sort of bonus is play five lines on fruit frenzy (did I get this idea from vwm? don't recall) It's a high variance and IF you get the bonus round you would get free spins at all 25 lines. But I would have bet 2.50 or $5 per spin... nothing ventured, nothing gained.

you can choose only 5 lines to play with yet if the bonus is triggered it gives you all 25?? seems alittle esy to manipulate the system if they allow you to do that lol

[vinylweatherman]

you can choose only 5 lines to play with yet if the bonus is triggered it gives you all 25?? seems alittle esy to manipulate the system if they allow you to do that lol

It works because it takes 5 of a kind, and not scatters, to trigger the bonus. The "manipuation" is down to the fact that the bonus round can be retriggered, and with all 25 lines active for a retrigger. A good bonus round, all 25 spins and one or more retriggers, will pay a great deal for a relatively small bet.
A sneakier manipulator comes into play if these slots are NOT true video slots, which is what I suspect given that the operators can alter the payout percentage without tweaking the paytable. This might make the bonus just as likely to be triggered with less lines in play, which would not be the case with true slots. Adde to this, we know there was once a "bug" in the bonus round, one that simply could not happen for a fully random bonus game.

The above is what I tried with the free chip at Virtual's VIP Lounge casino. If anything would give me a fighting chance to beat the chip, it would be this. Sadly, I didn't get a good 25 spin bonus round, but I almost managed to beat the WR

This idea has been posted before, and I tried it after seeing a post about how the bonus always plays on 25 lines, regardless of how many lines were played originally. The other issue is, of course, the RTG cap of 40,000x line bet. If only 5 lines are played, this should make this cap far higher for the bonus round than if all 25 lines were covered - this would be of benefit with a very big line win during the bonus round, which of course would also give a retrigger on top. It is also possible to win more than one retrigger during a spin, as some positions give a 5 of a kind win on more than 1 payline, which could lead to 50 extra spins or more.

In order to assess this properly, it would be necessary to play many thousands of spins with this stratregy, to see if there really is any long term benefit in terms of payout. Clearly, RTG think there is none, or they would have done something about it by now.

A true manipulator does exist for a couple of the RTG "classic" slots, and applies where casinos offer very large percentage bonuses, such as the Virtual group and Crystal Palace. This pair also know about it, and have the appropriate "FU Clause" in place to deal with it (they reserve the right to reset the games if they believe they have been played with manipulation in mind, something they can just "deem to be the case").

[RobWin]

It works because it takes 5 of a kind, and not scatters, to trigger the bonus. The "manipuation" is down to the fact that the bonus round can be retriggered, and with all 25 lines active for a retrigger. A good bonus round, all 25 spins and one or more retriggers, will pay a great deal for a relatively small bet.
A sneakier manipulator comes into play if these slots are NOT true video slots, which is what I suspect given that the operators can alter the payout percentage without tweaking the paytable. This might make the bonus just as likely to be triggered with less lines in play, which would not be the case with true slots. Adde to this, we know there was once a "bug" in the bonus round, one that simply could not happen for a fully random bonus game.

The above is what I tried with the free chip at Virtual's VIP Lounge casino. If anything would give me a fighting chance to beat the chip, it would be this. Sadly, I didn't get a good 25 spin bonus round, but I almost managed to beat the WR

This idea has been posted before, and I tried it after seeing a post about how the bonus always plays on 25 lines, regardless of how many lines were played originally. The other issue is, of course, the RTG cap of 40,000x line bet. If only 5 lines are played, this should make this cap far higher for the bonus round than if all 25 lines were covered - this would be of benefit with a very big line win during the bonus round, which of course would also give a retrigger on top. It is also possible to win more than one retrigger during a spin, as some positions give a 5 of a kind win on more than 1 payline, which could lead to 50 extra spins or more.

In order to assess this properly, it would be necessary to play many thousands of spins with this stratregy, to see if there really is any long term benefit in terms of payout. Clearly, RTG think there is none, or they would have done something about it by now.

A true manipulator does exist for a couple of the RTG "classic" slots, and applies where casinos offer very large percentage bonuses, such as the Virtual group and Crystal Palace. This pair also know about it, and have the appropriate "FU Clause" in place to deal with it (they reserve the right to reset the games if they believe they have been played with manipulation in mind, something they can just "deem to be the case").

You remember when, I believe, I was the first one to post here about this happening to me:

http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/...tml#post125717

[KasinoKing]

you can choose only 5 lines to play with yet if the bonus is triggered it gives you all 25?? seems alittle esy to manipulate the system if they allow you to do that lol

Not really; if you're only playing 5 lines instead of 25 it will take 5 times more spins (on average) to hit the bonus round. i.e. the total amount needed to be wagered to get a bonus round is the same if you're playing 25 lines, 5 lines or 1 line therefore it's right that the bonus round should have the same payout potential regardless of number of lines played.
So actually this is a very fair slot in that respect, but only because the bonus is triggered by line wins & not scatters (if we assume it is a truly random slot).

[lojo]

A former RTG programmer (not zaq... don't recall name) said the way they adjust the payouts on the slots is to simply remove one of the higher paying symbols from one of the reels. As the reels or sooooo long, even the most 'observant' player would be hard pressed to notice.

Though it may take five x more spins to get the bonus round, it may not A 'special' form of variance that is fair to the casino and potentially more than fair to the player, me thinx, especially when considering your increaed chances of retriggers once you're in the 25 line mode.

[lots0]

Why do casinos do what they do??

I have given this a lot of thought.

I believe casinos do these stupid things that drive away players for the same reasons that some websites used to flood visitors with pop-up windows.

They just don't know any better.

I remember having a discussion with a site owner a few years ago, he was telling me how he thought pop-up windows were great and he would stuff as many as he could on his site.

I remember asking him, "Don't pop-ups annoy you?", his answer was, "Ya, I hate em, but I make more sales when I use them." This guy is now out of business and now working in the B&M world for a little more than minim wage.

The same thing goes with these stupid casino tricks... The casino might make a few more dollars on the bank interest in the short term by delaying payments, but in the long run they are losing customers and giving online gaming a bad name.

Hey casino managers.... Reality Check... If you don't have any customers, there is not going to be any money the bank account to earn interest...

[GaryWatson]

Why do casinos do what they do??

Hey casino managers.... Reality Check... If you don't have any customers, there is not going to be any money the bank account to earn interest...

Many managers are judged on short term gain then move onwards and upwards before the shit hits the fan. Some owners have that same short term view.

Absolute Poker/UB took a major dip due to skanking everyone they could get money out of. Now they are on the rollercoaster, paying PR's and shifty affiliates over the odds to dupe more unsuspecting people. I think in the long run they would have done far better playing it straight, but I guess they will use every sneaky trick in the book. You can spot many shifty affiliate sites just by the way they are pushing AP just now

[lots0]

You can spot many shifty affiliate sites just by the way they are pushing AP just now

I noticed that as well...