What constitutes a Fair Slot?

[lojo]

Opinions will vary...
Here is my definition

• The RNG feeds the program a number (most programs retrieve this at spin button being 'pushed')
  
  The Program has a mathematical formula based on longterm payout percentage that will, over time, payback 95% if house edge is 5%
  
  
  
• RNG is not concerned with how many lines, how many coins, nor their denominations. It is not interacting at all with the program except to feed a number when called for.
  
  
• A fair program is not concerned either, it will produce the same screen results when I bet one cent one line or $5 per line on all 15 lines.
  
  
• The program only uses my bet size and lines wagered to calculate my payback

I'm planning on staying on this one until there is general agreement on how B&M and Microgaming slots work. Brianzz says he knows that bet size can affect payout percentage and I found allusions to it in Nevada Gaming Commision Regulations (it says the word SLOT, not video poker, and it doesn't matter whether you pick two nickles or one dime it is increasing the bet size)

In the 'cracking the reels' thread there has been preliminary proof shown that when playing one line on weighted reels it will give a different payout percentage than playing all lines.

I'm not too concerned if the features are 'predetermined'. We've been informed that they aren't on some Rival 'pick 'em' games... 50/50 as long as you can pick.

I haven't wanted to disrupt the flow on the crackin thread, but would be very interested in which games by, say, IGT and MG fit my definition of a fair slot.

We know 3Dice software is fair as Enzo has assured these points before.
Now we have some proofs (unless I misunderstood) that some of the older MG slots are not fair in these respects.
It would be nice if RTG, or a casino here could also tell us the minimum they can set the slot returns to and if they can change the variance of a particular slot (dream on).

I may be willing to modify my opinion of fair, but for now it is as stated. Any thoughts?

[Mousey]

One of my favorite B&M slots is Triple Stars -- an old fashioned, boring single line 3 reeler. One of my favorite machines is a mulitdenomination. I can play quarters, fifty cents, $1 by my choice. Slot director would give me no specifics as to payout % (it's top secret you see ) but would only say the following (and this is as close as I can come to a direct quote):

Most of our slots, when we order them, pay out basically the same percentages across all machines per each denomination.

In B&M casinos, the multidenomination reel slots have a different chip per denomination. If the casino likes 90% payout on quarters, that's in there. If the casino likes 93% payout on fifty cents, it's in there, too. If the casino likes 95% on $1 that's also there. It comes the way the casino ordered it. If they wanted that machine to payout 90% across all denoms on the machine, it could be ordered that way. If, however, the casino wishes to change the chip(s) after they are on the casino floor, the Gaming Commission must be present. It's a really big deal in a government regulated casino to change a chip.

I do not know, however, when I'm playing a penny multiline video slot machine (say, Money Storm) whether the payout percentage may be different when I switch from pennies to nickels or whatever.

And Brianzzz will correct me if I have any of that wrong.

[aka23]

RNG is not concerned with how many lines, how many coins, nor their denominations. It is not interacting at all with the program except to feed a number when called for.

In the 'cracking the reels' thread there has been preliminary proof shown that when playing one line on weighted reels it will give a different payout percentage than playing all lines.

I don't think these two quotes contradict one another. Weighted slots producing different payouts for different lines doesn't have anything to do with the RNG. Older MG games have only 1 symbol per reel. Instead of having a true reel in which low paying symbols occur several times on each reel, the reels are weighted such that some of the symbols hit more often than others. If symbol X is weighted such that it often appears on the center line, then the symbol below X should often appear on the bottom line. Given the statements above, it makes sense that different lines of the slot would have different payout percentages.

I suspect that the system above with weighted reels was designed for 3-reel slots with only a single line. Weighted reels works reasonably well for traditional 3-reel slots like this. However, things become more awkward, if the system is extended to 5-reels with many lines.

[BubbleG]

In the 'cracking the reels' thread there has been preliminary proof shown that when playing one line on weighted reels it will give a different payout percentage than playing all lines.

This is because on most 3 reel slots the payoff is usually smaller for 1 coin, as with vp you often get a bonus for betting the max and this is added to the JP payoff so the payoff % is lower if you dont bet the max, nothing sinister going on here even though we know the reels are weighted the bet size most likely has no bearing on the game outcome.

I'd rather play a 9+ line 5 reel slot with truly random reels, where the rng simply picks 5 numbers at press of spin from 1 > number of symbols on reel with each symbol having a fixed number position on its reel. Bet size, number of lines etc should have no bearing on the game out come or %payoff.

[Alexandre]

I don't agree when you state that random = fair.
The fact that the slot is random doesn't mean it's fair and vice versa.
A non random slot could be fair.
The only metric of fairness is the payout percent.
With the same payout percent a non random slot is as fair as a random one.
The truth is that you are playing 2 different games and because slots don't involve skills, the fact that the slot is non random won't affect the payout ratio.
The only thing is that you should be informed of is which kind of game you are playing.
Some people, especially in UK and Spain, where non random slots represent the norm, love them because they find them verry much more attractive (we could talk about gameplay here) than the random one.
Remember this topic ?
Sometimes random is boring...

[Slotster!]

This does:


(Wagerworks "Cleopatra")

I think it just about says it all here - why the hell can't MG be so transparent?

[KasinoKing]

Opinions will vary...
Here is my definition
[LIST][*]The RNG feeds the program a number (most programs retrieve this at spin button being 'pushed')

The Program has a mathematical formula based on longterm payout percentage that will, over time, payback 95% if house edge is 5%

I think it is generally accepted that this is how most physical slot & fruit machines work (in the UK).
(Not too sure about the 'S16' £500 video slots - could be rigged or random...?)

However, I believe that online slots (i.e. Microgaming) work like this:

The RNG feeds the program a random number for each reel's position.
This is then converted into a visual display on your screen.

The longterm payout percentage is entirely governed by the paytable & the probability of each win hitting.

KK

[Zoozie]

A fair 5-reel slot is a non-weighted slot. All reel stop-positions have same probability. There is no deception - is WYSIWUG.

The longterm payout percentage is entirely governed by the paytable & the probability of each win hitting.

KK

Good defintion, but a little more precise:
The longterm payout percentage is entirely governed by the paytable & layout of the reels.

[XXLClubCasino]

Here the type of information we receive per game from playtech.

I can't give you the slotname (Y) as it is a confidential document that can't be disclosed.

Example for slot Y

Payout
92.XX%
Hit frequency (one line)
5.XX%
Hit frequency (X lines)
7X.XX%
Max win (in coins, when betting 10 coins per line)
5 Wilds: 10 x 10,000 = 100,000 coins
Max win (monetary, when betting 10 coins per line)
100,000 x max coin size
Probability of max win
1 in XXX,XXX,726

[hobobiker]

Example for slot Y

Payout
92.XX%
Hit frequency (one line)
5.XX%
Hit frequency (X lines)
7X.XX%
Probability of max win
1 in XXX,XXX,726

mmmm very interesting .......

so at XXL...slot Y .....pays XXXXX if we wager X lines at a wager of XXX coins.

Txxxks

Mr XXXXXker