Everest and Imperial are trying it on

[BubbleG]

Originally Posted by thenmh

That's what I told you: http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/...tml#post149149

Not Quite you said "I'm almost sure that they have refunded the remaining $150 to your credit card, that's what happened with me."

They didn't refund anything to my credit card...... Infact they didn't even debit my credit card.

In the transaction history it still appears as though they owe me $150 but as they never debited the initial $150 deposit in the first place we are all square

[jerrylee]

Originally Posted by Rusty

As I say, not rogue but proceed with caution.

And what's the opposite of rogue? Accredited! Ha ha Rusty, couldn't resist.

BubbleG, nice to see you got satisfaction. Cool you pasted their response in this thread. That's how everyone benefits. I guess it's not in their FAQ?

[jerrylee]

Originally Posted by Rusty

It is crazy that you can join more than 1 of their Casinos and deposit at different ones without problems.

I think that's a valid argument for someone who's never visited this site before and has no idea that Grand Virtual is a chain of casinos. But Rusty sir, I think you need to be held up to a higher standard, and in IMO could have known better. As they say, the writing's on the wall (Bryan's wall that is)

Originally Posted by Rusty

They agreed that I was a serious and genuine player but were basically unsympathetic to my plight and I still do not know how they could take money from me(deposits) under the same circunstances in which they would not pay.

Funny, how did BubbleG get his $375 cashout within a few days, but you got nothing, initially...until you spent it? Could it have something to do with your creation of multiple accounts?
Let's say for a second you put yourself in the shoes of the casino owner. How would you run your business? Check every single deposit, or take some chances? There's risk involved for them too..not everyone pays up if you know what I mean.
What would you do when a player cashes out? Check them all, no of course not. You check randomly or when something doesn't look right. Like players who created multiple accounts. Players sharing credit cards, and the list goes on and on. What if, as the casino you authorized deposits and cash outs from and to a stolen credit card? Hmmm, wouldn't look too good now would it? Who's going to be hurting now? Everyone.

Originally Posted by Rusty

I content myself with letting others know what happened to me so they can make an informed choice about playing with this group.

Ah Rusty, if you truly wanted to let readers make an informed decision, you would share the response you likely got from their CS. Without it, no one can objectively look at your experience. It's clearly biased.

[Rusty]

Not trying to get off topic but...
Rusty?? I thought you were done gambling online or was that someone else???
I did say something along those lines a few months back and ended up having a 2 Week break!
That said I am not spending as much as I was and still get a lot of pleasure out of online gaming.........until I win
No win, no problems.

Jerrylee I am not the one who is obviously biased here as I am the one stating the facts and you are the one who is disputing them without good reason.
As I have said before Grand Virtual are aware of this thread and are obviously free to post here if they feel I am not stating things the way are.
They have thus far declined to do this and since it is much more in their interest to show that I am "biased" or misrepresenting the facts than it is yours I think most people would come to the conclusion that the facts are as read.
If you (jerrylee) would like to shift more of the blame on to me for being a reasonably experienced player and opening several accounts with the same group(same software does not usualy mean same group) then that it is your right to have that opinion. I simply disagree with it completely and think it(your opinion) comes from a biased and jaundice view of the player who need I remind you actually pays the industries wages.
what is wrong with having more than 1 account with a group anyway? Dodgy you say?
How about the Casino rewards group of MG casinos who actively encourage their players to join more than 1 of their casinos, explain clearly what promotions you can and can not claim and automatically stop any promootions you are not entitled to.
I have played at these Casinos and been payed in good time on any withdrawal so in your view these people are fools?
I will open a seperate thread about this group to highlight the difference between good and bad Casino practice/customer service

[KasinoKing]

Originally Posted by jerrylee

And what's the opposite of rogue? Accredited! Ha ha Rusty, couldn't resist.

Actually I would say there is a very big gap between Rogue and Accredited, with many 100's of casinos in it!
Most of these are probably perfectly fine.

Originally Posted by jerrylee

I think that's a valid argument for someone who's never visited this site before and has no idea that Grand Virtual is a chain of casinos. But Rusty sir, I think you need to be held up to a higher standard, and in IMO could have known better.

So what if Grand Virtual are a chain?
That should not prevent a player signing up to all their casinos, unless this is specifically prohibited in the T&C's. (I haven't checked - do they have this rule?)

However I do agree it is probably unwise to open accounts at all within a very short time frame, as this is bound to cause suspicion of fraud / bonus abuse if noticed.

Rusty; Are you still pursuing your money? If so, good luck!

BTW, as a result of this thread I joined a GV casino myself. Well, their slots are certainly different & weird, but when they hit... Whooo hooo! Despite losing a bucket load of cash on their 'seemed a bit dodgy to me' card games I still did WR with a nice profit. Will probably withdraw tonight / tomorrow & will let you know how it goes!

[BubbleG]

Originally Posted by KasinoKing

Actually I would say there is a very big gap between Rogue and Accredited, with many 100's of casinos in it!
Most of these are probably perfectly fine.



So what if Grand Virtual are a chain?
That should not prevent a player signing up to all their casinos, unless this is specifically prohibited in the T&C's. (I haven't checked - do they have this rule?)

However I do agree it is probably unwise to open accounts at all within a very short time frame, as this is bound to cause suspicion of fraud / bonus abuse if noticed.

Rusty; Are you still pursuing your money? If so, good luck!

BTW, as a result of this thread I joined a GV casino myself. Well, their slots are certainly different & weird, but when they hit... Whooo hooo! Despite losing a bucket load of cash on their 'seemed a bit dodgy to me' card games I still did WR with a nice profit. Will probably withdraw tonight / tomorrow & will let you know how it goes!

Its is quite clear in their "Bonus Policy"

Point 3 states

Limitation. Bonuses (whether one-time, sign-up, special promotion or recurring monthly use) are limited to one per combination of: a person, family, household, geographic address, mailing address, email address, credit card number and shared computer environment (such as a library or workplace). This limitation applies across all casinos operating GrandVirtual technology. If a casino operating GrandVirtual technology is running a promotion that is similar in kind, an individual person cannot receive the same promotion from both casinos. This includes, but is not limited to, new user promotions.

I guess the only answer to this if you wish to play at multiple GV casinos is to refuse the sign up bonus after your initial sign up from whichever casino you take it at.

I dont necessarily agree with this but it is in their terms. Grand Virtual possibly handle cashes for all casinos on their network but they are not the casino operators which is probably why you still get automatic bonuses when signing up to multiple GV casinos. It only shows up as far as GV are concerned when attempting to cash out.

Rusty, I do feel for you. Any situation regarding unpaid long drawn out cash outs sucks but you dont seem to want to post the exact correspondance between you and the casino. I appreciate the term Privare message but this is a public forum and as such everything should be made public especially in the event of a problem. We are only getting the facts as you see them and not as the exact wording in the correspondance. It only takes one different word in a sentence for that sentence to take on a whole different meaning.

[jerrylee]

Originally Posted by Rusty

I am not the one who is obviously biased here as I am the one stating the facts.

Correction. You are not stating facts, you're stating opinion.
Rusty, if you wanted people to believe your case is legit, you would post the following:
~number of GV accounts you opened
~CS response
~your reply to CS
~outcome
~if issue is pending, reason (are you waiting for GV to do something, are they waiting for you)

BubbleG's advice speaks volumes. It says that he has read and may understand their bonus terms.
I still stand by my position that your postings are skewed in your favor and may not realistically present the TRUE facts. By the way, it's common for players like you to do this. Complain loudly on public forums, yet when challenged for the truth, they run away. Why? Because they have something to hide.

[Rusty]

Correction. You are not stating facts, you're stating opinion.
Rusty, if you wanted people to believe your case is legit, you would post the following:
~number of GV accounts you opened
~CS response
~your reply to CS
~outcome
~if issue is pending, reason (are you waiting for GV to do something, are they waiting for you)

BubbleG's advice speaks volumes. It says that he has read and may understand their bonus terms.
I still stand by my position that your postings are skewed in your favor and may not realistically present the TRUE facts. By the way, it's common for players like you to do this. Complain loudly on public forums, yet when challenged for the truth, they run away. Why? Because they have something to hide.

I have already stated number of accounts (7) according to them though I did not play at them all and I am pretty sure one or two were old accounts.I am not certain of the facts here but they quoted 7
I am not sure how much of the original email corrospondence I have but I will check now.
As stated I did not receive a reply to my original emails as to why my cashout had been withheld I just got a jobload of emails stating they wanted proof of ID such as photo/credit card etc even though the deposits and withdrawals were through moneybookers.
My withdrawals were returned to my accounts(3 Days later I think but I am not certain on this) where I played off the balance (around $500)
I am not after my money back as I broke their T&C's about having only 1 account within the Group and have never asked for it.I simply asked that they review my play/deposits/withdrawals to see that I am not bonus abuser and that it was unreasonable that they continued to take my deposits without informing me I was in breach of their T&C's even after 1,2,3 withdrawal requests and emails from me. I asked for a full explanation and advised them that the only way I would play there again is if they were prepared to make a goodwill gesture of some sort.
I will follow this post up with all my PM between me and this group.
Against my principles but it seems some people here are happy to throw around wild allagations and aspertions at me no matter how often I set out the facts.

[Rusty]

First and only corrospondence received from them(repeated once for each account).
When I attempted to verify I was told they wanted a copy front and back of my credit card photo ID and other documents.
I received no replies as to why they wanted credit card ID when my account with them was funded by moneybookers or why a cheque would made out and posted even though I had a monetbookers account in which they could pay.
I received no reply as to why they were continuing to take deposits from me even though they were denying cashouts.
Finally all these emails arrived at the same time only after my 3rd withdrawal request and after I had emailed them asking where my money was.
I do not have copies of the emails I sent to them.
PM messages to follow

Dear ********,

At Everest Casino, your security is important to us. For your protection and to ensure you were indeed the individual requesting a cash-out, all payments to you are on hold until you verify your cash-out request and other account details. (We may return the requested cash-out amount to your account balance so you can continue to play while we verify your account.)

All verification is done with our billing company, Internet Billing Services (IBS). IBS handles all secure transactions for Everest Casino and maintains encrypted records of your payments and payouts. Please be assured that your information is secure with IBS.

For tracking purposes, we have assigned a Verification ID to your account. Your Verification ID is ********.

To proceed with the Account Verification process, please click here

Upon receipt and confirmation of your documents, we will reinstate your cash-out privileges and notify you by email. You may then login to your account and check the status of your cash-out request. When your cash-out is processed, we will mail your cheque via DHL overnight service (please allow 2-3 business days for delivery).

If you have any further questions or concerns, please feel free to contact us via our Player Support Form (Please refer to your Verification ID (VID) in your message)

Kind Regards,
Everest Casino Player Support Team

[Rusty]

Hi,

Thank you for your message. I will look into this right away. I know that we were having a lot of fraud with Moneybookers lately and they had asked us to verify many of their users. I am wondering if you got lumped in with that effort.

I will contact Customer Service and try to figure out what's going on.

Best,
Jennifer Joyce


Hi,

I am confused as to what happened. Did they return just your deposits? Or also your winnings? Is there something I can do to look into this for you?

Best,
Jennifer


Hi,

Can you give me your username or email address so I can look up your account?

As I mentioned Moneybookers has been having some fraud problems and I know we have had to verify the identity of many people. That is probably why you were asked for an id. But I can give your account information to Customer Service and have them explain it.

Best,
Jennifer


Hi,

Ok, I talked to the VP of Customer Service. He said it was an error to ask you for credit card information. Looks like you got an inexperienced customer service person. Sorry about that.

The reason you were asked to verify your identity is that you have 7 casino accounts on the Grand Virtual platform. In our policies, we technically only allow you to have 1. However, lots of people don't realize they are related or they play with us several years ago and then come back so we are often lenient. But in these cases to stop bonus abuse we often ask people to verify their identities. In addition, in our policies, we reserve the right to request identification verification. Sometimes this is triggered from a cashout. Sometimes this is just done randomly to verify the identity of players. We don't share the triggers, because we don't want fraudsters to hae a list of times when we do this. In addition, this is a requirement, actually, of credit card companies and the e-wallets to know our customers.

So, I understand that you do not want to play with us again. That is definitely unfortunate for us as you are, as you say, a serious player. If you did want to play, we would just need a copy of a national identification with picture (preferably a passport) and a screenshot of your moneybookers account to verify it is your account.

We are sorry to lose you as a player, but for the safety of our gaming properties we need to follow these policies.

Best Regards,
Jennifer Joyce
VP of Marketing

Hi,

I am not sure why you state that we would not pay. We were asking for you to verify your identity since some of your behaviours fit the risk profile of previous fraudulent players. It doesn't mean we think you were defrauding us. It just means that we have a risk management group and for our safety and safety and fairness to our other players they wanted to verify you were who said you were and that you were the owner of your Moneybookers account.

You can see our policies for bonuses as well as identity verification at

http://www.imperialcasino.com/en/pol...promotion.html
http://www.imperialcasino.com/en/policies/account.html
http://www.imperialcasino.com/en/policies/cashout.html

I understand that it is frustrating that the cashout did not happen faster, but we do at certain points choose to verify player identity. If we outlined every situation in which we did it, then fraudulent players would know what to do and not to do in order to further defraud us.

We appreciate your business, but understand if you are not inclined to play with us anymore.

Best Regards,
Jennifer Joyce
VP of Marketing


I do not have any record of my questions to which these replies corrospond but the reference Jennifer makes to me stating "they would not pay" is because the payments were withheld and unreasonable and belated requests were made for ID(credit card) without explanation.Not to mention the "we will post a cheque if all verifies"
Hardly surprising I felt I was getting the run arround(which I was)
Anyway this clarified the situation for me in that I knew the multiple accounts were the problem and it was breaking their T&C's.
Jennifer did a pretty decent job but the Casinos customer support is non existent at best and I still feel I have been badly messed about by them.I have no idea why my behaviour could be seen as fraudulent as all my accounts are same name address and moneybookers account.
I do not think there is any information here that I have not already posted but PM stand for PRIVATE message and it is unfortunate that I felt hounded enough here to have to post it.