Platinum Play booby-trap

[MeganSpot]

I am relating my recent experience as a first time player at Platinum Play casino as a dire warning to would be players. Apologies for the length but the subtlety of this bonus booby-trap requires a lengthy expose.

I was lured into opening an account with Platinum Play casino by the sign-up bonus promising to Triple your Money. Specifically the bonus reads as follows on the Platinum Play home page,

As a first-time Real player, you'll get a 200% match bonus of up to $100 free on your first purchase of up to $50. If you purchase more than $50, we'll give you an extra $10 free! $110 Total Bonus.

Terms of the bonus exclude play on the vast majority of casino games leaving slots, keno, cyber poker and a few others on which to play. The initial deposit needs to be wagered once (during which I lost about $8 small change or so on slots) before the 200% bonus is awarded and thereafter the d+b is to be wagered x15 before cash-in allowed. I got lucky on a slot machine and managed to cash-in $140 from an initial $50 deposit.

My wagering totaled (as later advised) precisely $2687.95 which well exceeded the d+b x15 calculations. You can imagine my surprise to find my NeTeller account had subsequently only credited $40 from my $140 cash-in.

From an exchange of emails with Casino support the following breakdown of just what bonuses had been deposited into my casino account and the attending wagering requirements was revealed:

200% sign-up $100 x15 = $2250
extra bonus $10 x20 = $200
NeTeller bonus $5 x110 = $550

Total wagering $3000

My total wagering fell exactly $312.05 short all because of a $5 NeTeller bonus (carrying outrageous x110 conditions) that I neither knew had been credited to my casino account (let alone knowing the T+C), nor which I requested to be credited to my casino account. I asked Platinum Play on three occasions why my cash-in was not refunded to my casino account for completion of wagering. No reply. I asked why the offending $5 NeTeller should not simply be removed and $135 remitted to my NeTeller account (since the $5 never even threatened to enter casino play) and was advised of the following:

The wagering requirement that you needed to meet was $3000, you wagered a total of $2687.95. as per the Terms & Conditions of the casino if wagering requirements are not met on the bonuses the bonuses will be forfeited from the larger amount to the smallest until the wagering requirement is met.

The Platinum Play home page expressly declares in bold and enlarged print that there is a $110 Total Bonus on offer. No mention of the paltry $5 NeTeller penalty (it can not be legitimately called a bonus) with not so paltry x110 wagering conditions.

This NeTeller penalty bonus is a deliberate and deceptive ploy designed to entrap the unwary first time player. Any fair-minded Casino would allow the player to remedy the wagering short-fall or simply deduct the uninvited $5 penalty bonus from the cash-in.

I feel the Platinum Play casino knows exactly what it is doing in advertising, structuring and awarding bonuses in this fashion. In fact my guess is that this casino readily anticipates springing this trap on a regular basis which is why I have gone to the trouble of submitting such a lengthy post.

I condemn Platinum Play without reservation for this sneaky and thoroughly disreputable practice that positively drips with malice aforethought.



MS

 

[Black21Jack]

You have to be really careful with these Neteller bonuses. These casinos are very sneaky and do not add them right away but wait for a short time before adding them without even letting the player know. It is worse if you are a bonus player and claim a bonus on your deposit, which makes it harder sometimes to notice that they added this rediculous Neteller bonus that carries astronomical playthrough requirements for such a small amount. I never claim bonuses so I notice right away that they add these things to my account and I get right on the phone to have them remove it. RTG is famous for doing this hours after I make my deposit. I even had a dispute with one where I did not notice and wagered with the bonus so I called and after threatening to not ever play again, and inform on the boards of what happened they removed it with no penalty. Try explaining to them and let them know that you did not request the bonus. They should be able to see that you did claim the other bonuses and wagered to make the playthrough and that it would be silly for you to try and rip them off for the measley $5.00 Neteller bonus.

 

[Vesuvio]

This NeTeller penalty bonus is a deliberate and deceptive ploy designed to entrap the unwary first time player. Any fair-minded Casino would allow the player to remedy the wagering short-fall or simply deduct the uninvited $5 penalty bonus from the cash-in.

Yes, it's disgraceful they snatch the bonus back & don't let you remedy it (despite their complex conditions & trick Neteller 'bonus') and makes the Fortune Lounge group of casino clear rogues, but all attempts to get something done about it on here fail - Casinomeister & co. will say they're really perfectly decent & you just shouldn't play with bonuses - I'll find you another thread all this was gone through on before. Fortunelounge come on this board to solve a few problems but of course wilfully exploit a huge number of players who don't know about these boards and what to expect.

If they're not rogues all they need to do is change it so that players are informed of the short-fall in wagering & the cash-in is returned to the casino balance so they can put it right.

 

[Vesuvio]

Here's the thread:

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/open-letter-to-fl-prove-youre-not-a-rogue.4196/

Sorry, but it's really infuriating to see players going through the same problems when a little pressure on the casino from this board might well change their policy...

 

[GrandMaster]

Here is something possibly more helpful: e-mail [email protected] with your problem, if this fails, file a complaint with ecogra at

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

.

If Mr Fortune Lounge reads this thread, I would like an explanation why these things keep happening. Why can't they notify the player when a Neteller bonus is added, and why can't accounts and CS staff use some common sense in such situations?

 

[largeeyes]

I had almost the exact same post a few months back. I played in pounds, for which the bonus never should have been applied, so I was able to get the large bonus removal reversed. However, it is a very slimy thing to be doing.

 

[Simmo!]

Very interesting. And a real shame as i like FL as an organisation but this is not good, so a deserved IMHO for highlighting it Meganspot.

 

[rowmare]

This is very interesting.

I did a little research to see just what wagering requirements can be expected for Neteller bonuses.

I came up with these:

1. Roxy Palace: To be eligible to withdraw the bonus amount [Neteller Bonus], participants need to wager the deposit AND bonus amount 5 times.

2. Wild Jack: In the interests of fair casino play, we require that players receiving our 10% deposit bonus wager [Neteller Bonus] at least three times the amount of their deposit plus the bonus amount before making any withdrawl.



And here, in full, are the terms for cashing in when a Neteller Bonus has been in play - From the Platinum Play Website:

Platinum Play
NETELLER PURCHASE BONUS - TERMS & CONDITIONS


10% Bonus offer is only valid on US Dollar ($) accounts. GBP and EUR accounts are not eligible for this promotion.

To receive the 10% NETeller bonus, simply purchase and wager the purchase amount once. The 10% bonus will be calculated on your FIRST NETeller purchase.

You will receive your 10% bonus within 24 hours of the purchase being wagered, up to a maximum bonus of $100.

In the interest of avoiding any confusion related to the bonus offer, please be certain to read the following wagering obligations: [geez, you need to have a law degree AND be a CPA to follow what follows]
Prior to cashing-in your bonus offer, players are required to:

Wager the purchase amount (up to a maximum value equivalent to the bonus amount) at least ten (10) times

Wager the bonus amount at least ten (10) times

Assuming you receive a $100 bonus;

Your wagering requirements would be $11,000 - calculated as ($1,000 Purchase x 10) + ($100 Bonus x 10)
Certain games are excluded from those which players are permitted to play for the purpose of meeting their wagering requirements. This is done to avoid any "bonus abuse." Excluded games are Craps and Roulette.

The wagering obligations for players resident in Denmark are slightly more stringent, as they are required to wager the purchase amount and the bonus amount 20 times before any cash-in will be permitted. In addition to the aforementioned wagering requirements, wagers placed on the following games will not be deemed as fulfilling a promotion's minimum wager requirement: All forms of Blackjack, Craps, Sic Bo, Red Dog, all forms of Baccarat, all forms of Roulette and Progressive Roulette tables, all forms of Power Poker and Video Poker except Deuces Wild.

The wagering requirement (for cash-in purposes) will start being counted from the time the promotion bonus was added to the casino account.

This promotion is only valid until 23:59 September 30, 2004 (EST).

To qualify for the 10% bonus, participants are required to wager the purchased amount at least once. Please note that if your first ever purchase is made via NETeller you will need to wager your purchase once to qualify for NETeller bonus and once for the Signup Match Bonus.

The 10% bonus applies to the FIRST purchase EVER via NETeller on your casino account, up to a maximum purchase of $1,000 i.e. a maximum bonus of $100.

Please note that this purchase bonus may not be taken in conjunction with the sign-up offer at Fortune Room, Vegas Villa or Royal Vegas casinos - i.e. if your first purchase is made via NETeller you will only be eligible for the casino sign-up purchase match offer.


Well, paint me purple and color me stupid, but this just isn't clear to me. Are the Neteller wagering requirements above and beyond the wecome bonus wagering requirements?

Do you have to wager 15X your purchase + Bonus for the 200% bonus WR, and then have to wager an additional 10X your purchase + Neteller bonus amount to meet your Neteller bonus WR?

Either way, it doesn't add up to 110%

 

[fortunelounge]

Meganspot: An automated note pasted on your account indicates that you received our automailer to inform you of your Neteller bonus having been added. The mail was sent to you on 30/8/04.

I have checked the calculation of your wagering requirements and the information you received was absolutely correct.

I cannot, however, understand where you get the 110 times wagering on your Neteller bonus. The wagering requirement is Purchase + Bonus x 10.

Grandmaster: I am not sure what you mean by CS using more common sense ? If wagering requirements have not been met, they have not been met. We cannot start making exceptions.

Vesuvio: Pressure from this board is not going to change our policy in this regard. I don't see the same comments about other casinos who have similar or even worse wagering requirements.

VP Operations
Fortune Lounge

 

[Vesuvio]

Vesuvio: Pressure from this board is not going to change our policy in this regard. I don't see the same comments about other casinos who have similar or even worse wagering requirements.

Fortunelounge, I've got no complaints about your wagering requirements - the neteller bonus is a trap, but you're not alone in that. All I object to is the automatic snatching back of the bonus rather than returning the cash-in to the players' account and letting them remedy the error. This is something even most rogues don't go in for and a very shabby policy.

It's true I don't expect you'll change it as it must give a huge & ill-deserved boost to your profits, but at least some pressure on here would show you up for what you are.

 

[The Dude]

It's true I don't expect you'll change it as it must give a huge & ill-deserved boost to your profits, but at least some pressure on here would show you up for what you are.

Take a chill pill Vesuvio. You are making malicious implications here and I don't like it. I tire of the negativity that in most cases does not need to be expressed.

 

[seanjohn]

I cannot, however, understand where you get the 110 times wagering on your Neteller bonus. The wagering requirement is Purchase + Bonus x 10.

geese, then you must go back to grade school and learn your algebra!!

 

[mucullus]

I cannot, however, understand where you get the 110 times wagering on your Neteller bonus. The wagering requirement is Purchase + Bonus x 10.

This is a simple calculation: If you get a 10% bonus and you have to wager deposit and bonus ten times this is euqal to a 110 times wagering on the bonus itself.

 

[Vesuvio]

Take a chill pill Vesuvio. You are making malicious implications here and I don't like it. I tire of the negativity that in most cases does not need to be expressed.

I don't think it's particularly malicious - why else change the policy so the cash-outs aren't returned to players' accounts except to make some more money? Fair enough, they're a business & want to increase their margins, but I do think this goes beyond what should be acceptable business practice in the industry. I could go further, but ok, I'll leave it for now.

I think this does need to be expressed. The players who fall foul of this don't have any redress - they can't complain on here or appeal to Fortunelounge as of course the policy is there somewhere in the terms and conditions. A little negativity might give an outside chance of Fortune Lounge making a change - if there's none they'll do nothing.

Even if they stick with this policy I don't see why they couldn't make it absolutely clear they'll take back the bonus if any error's made and urge the player to contact CS before making a cash-in. Unless...

 

[The Dude]

Expressing oneself is fine, and it can be done in such a way without needless subjectivity (or negativity). There is no need to make comments such as "ill-deserved boost to your profits" because this is beside the point and does not motivate anyone on the casino side to jump into a conversation. Unlike many message boards, this is not a board exclusively for players - it is a board for the entire industry. We could go on and on how many of us feel that online casinos are on the take, just as we could go on and on that players try to rip off casinos with fraudulant activity.

My main concern here is not to alienate anyone via a caustic atmosphere. The board will lose its credence and power with this sort of poison. I didn't mean to single you out, I was only drawing attention to the fact that comments like this are leaning this way.

 

[Vesuvio]

Ok, that was going a bit far - though 'ill-deserved' was accurate in the sense that the players hadn't actually lost the money to them fairly, they'd just been caught out on a technicality.

I understand it's a difficult balancing act on this forum and you need to try and keep some leverage with the casinos. I guess the players just have to rely on the conscience of the casinos concerned

 

[trick]

I can't understand why more casinos does not make a "withdrawal limit" in their banking section. If you get a bonus at eg. InterCasino or Casino365, you are clearly informed what you can and cannot withdraw. This makes it next to impossible to miss wagering requirement. In this regard, I remember WebDollar banking software also TWICE informing you clearly that bonusses will be removed if you are trying to make a withdrawal when you have not cleared the WR.

With all the other automation in place it is beyond me why it is SO HARD to make accurate information available in the banking section to a player wanting to make a withdrawal . Especially since a lot of complaints are based on misunderstandings and misinterpretations of bonus systems.

 

[Black21Jack]

Meganspot: An automated note pasted on your account indicates that you received our automailer to inform you of your Neteller bonus having been added. The mail was sent to you on 30/8/04.

I have checked the calculation of your wagering requirements and the information you received was absolutely correct.

I cannot, however, understand where you get the 110 times wagering on your Neteller bonus. The wagering requirement is Purchase + Bonus x 10.

Grandmaster: I am not sure what you mean by CS using more common sense ? If wagering requirements have not been met, they have not been met. We cannot start making exceptions.

Vesuvio: Pressure from this board is not going to change our policy in this regard. I don't see the same comments about other casinos who have similar or even worse wagering requirements.

VP Operations
Fortune Lounge

You should not even have these auto bonuses without having the player opt in to receive them. I do not usually make accusations on this board but in my opinion I feel these automatic Neteller bonuses are a kind of a trap. First of all they are not added right away in most casinos (RTG's) I don't know how they work at your casino, second of all sometimes emails are not received by people especially if they get bumped due to some email program spam settings. Therefore it should be opt in only when signing up for the casino account, that way there would be no surprises as the player will know they are getting the bonus even if they do not get the email. Why do you automatically add the bonuses without player permission? Not everyone is a bonus player. It's a pain in the rear to have to call and get it removed, and I know that one time I did not notice and started playing what I thought was my deposit and found out that some tiny Neteller bonus had been added. I got an email notification but I do not sit and check email every second so I played before going in my email. I think that it is rediculous.

 

[Simmo!]

With all the other automation in place it is beyond me why it is SO HARD to make accurate information available in the banking section to a player wanting to make a withdrawal . Especially since a lot of complaints are based on misunderstandings and misinterpretations of bonus systems.

well said. Being up-front will ultimately win you more friends (ie: players) than not being so and pissing them off so they never come back AND tell others about it. As a business, it makes sense to lay your cards on the table - although as a casino business, I feel obliged to point out, if you do this too literally your Blackjack payout stats may take a hammering

 

[jetset]

Quote You should not even have these auto bonuses without having the player opt in to receive them.Unquote

I agree with you Black21Jack.

 

[MeganSpot]

It may have been mentioned before but Fortune Lounge (and Wim) should be applauded for presenting the Casino side of the equation within a public forum such as this. With the pleasantries out of the way Ill get on with giving FL the bake they deserve. Here are the facts:

1.The Platinum Play home page is explicit in declaring the Total bonus on offer is $110. The NeTeller bonus (penalty) conspicuously doesnt rate a mention. A click here button opens another window that reinforces the view that the Total bonus is $110. Again no mention of the offending NeTeller bonus (penalty) despite ample advertising opportunity. This lack of transparency is hardly surprising given the onerous T+C.
2.In this instance the $5 NeTeller bonus (penalty) carries wagering requirements of $550 (x110b) with qualifying games severely restricted. By comparison Intercasino, Omnicasino and the Sands offer monthly $100 bonuses with x25b and very few game restrictions. Chalk and cheese. What right thinking player would knowingly dare contemplate engaging the NeTeller bonus (penalty) under these circumstances? Where is the financial incentive? Certainly not with the player (perhaps FL could spell it out).
3.In my particular case I played without knowledge of the NeTeller bonus (penalty) being applied to my casino account. FL do not deny this but equally I accept a type of automated email advice was at least attempted to be sent by PP to my registered email address.

Lets cut to the chase. As an unanimous block players dont want sneaky, miniscule bonuses with disproportionate wagering requirements added to their casino accounts under the cloak of darkness. Casinos engaging in such a practice will be rightly condemned of attempting to take advantage of players (player abuse) especially when seen to confiscate bonuses from otherwise legitimate cash-ins. The indecent haste with which Casinos perform this confiscation, together with their "no correspondence will entered into" attitude, could in all probability be seen to betray an illicit if not prescribed intent. In other words, it was all planned from the start.

Having now had the advantage of reading previous threads in this and other forums it is quite apparent this issue is hardly a recent phenomenon. Let me finish up with a question to FL.

If players do not want (in their wildest dreams) the subject NeTeller type of bonus, why do FL casinos, in particular Platinum Play, continue to insist upon such a maligned and discredited practice?

 

[Stanford]

Quote You should not even have these auto bonuses without having the player opt in to receive them.Unquote

I agree with you Black21Jack.

I also agree. I think it just a matter of time before they reverse this policy if players continue to press the issue. Having read this thread, the word "trap" (intential or not) is approriate.

 

[GrandMaster]

Grandmaster: I am not sure what you mean by CS using more common sense ? If wagering requirements have not been met, they have not been met. We cannot start making exceptions.

VP Operations
Fortune Lounge

My point is that if she met the requirements for the $100 sign-up bonus, but not the additional WR for the $5 Neteller bonus, then the latter should be removed, not the former.

Furthermore, your terms and conditions say:
"Wagering counts towards bonus requirements in the order that each bonus offer is taken up", not what the CS rep wrote that "as per the Terms & Conditions of the casino if wagering requirements are not met on the bonuses the bonuses will be forfeited from the larger amount to the smallest until the wagering requirement is met. If the sign-up bonus was applied first, then you are wrong to remove it, if the Neteller bonus, then you are clearly entitled to remove the sign-up bonus, and be happy that you stuck to the rules and alienated a player.

 

[MeganSpot]

Firstlty, I want to acknowlegde the contribution of forum members to my original complaint, in particular to Vesuvio and Grandmaster, for the links and information supplied that I otherwse would have been unaware. My previous silence in this regard was not meant to be a sign of ingratitude.

Grandmaster proceeding post is a revelation that for my own purposes I will repeat and expand upon. With reference to the Platinum Play website it reads under:

"GENERAL TERMS AND CONDITIONS FOR ALL PROMOTIONS AND OFFERS

Paragraph 11.

Wagering counts towards bonus requirements in the order that each bonus offer is taken up. i.e. wagering requirements need to be met for each bonus before subsequent bonuses may be withdrawn."

Furthermore, Grandmaster is quite correct to say that the position put to me by Platinum Play CS staff that,

"as per the Terms & Conditions of the casino if wagering requirements are not met on the bonuses the bonuses will be forfeited from the larger amount to the smallest until the wagering requirement is met"

is unsupported by any reference to the published T+C or indeed at any place on the Platinum Play website. For the record the 200% bonus was indeed the original bonus to be applied to my account.

Before proceeding or commenting any further I think it appropriate to allow FL (wim) or Platinum Play to reconsider their position and take whatever remedial action is deemed appropriate.

 

[jpm]

Remember too that you can always opt out of these bonuses at pretty much any casino. That's the first thing I do, email them and tell them you never want these neteller/alternative deposits applied to your account. Then you don't have to watch your account for these negligible bonuses that do nothing but tie up your money unneccessarily.

 

[seanjohn]

I totally agree with Grandmaster and the others

FL set up this trap on purpose.
It is deliberate, with malice aforehead.

And all their VPOP can come up with is these bullshit responses which are totally irrelevant as to why they remove all bonuses instead of just the NETeller 5%.

No brains, no shame.

 

[fortunelounge]

There will be no further responses to this thread in this forum.

Anyone wishing to discuss this issue in a sensible, civilized manner is welcome to mail me at [email protected]

VP Operations
Fortune Lounge

 

[The Dude]

geese, then you must go back to grade school and learn your algebra!!

FL set up this trap on purpose.
It is deliberate, with malice aforehead.

And all their VPOP can come up with is these bullshit responses which are totally irrelevant as to why they remove all bonuses instead of just the NETeller 5%.

No brains, no shame.

Like I mentioned before - and this applies to everyone - expressing oneself is fine, but it should be done without needless subjectivity (or negativity). There is no need to make comments such these, I have been giving everyone fair warning about this.

This is not a board where insulting or flippant remarks are tolerated. seanjohn's account has been suspended for 30 days.

The only bullshit in this thread are comments like Seanjohn's.

And my word to everyone - knock it off, I'm serious as a heart attack.

 

[Vesuvio]

There will be no further responses to this thread in this forum.

Anyone wishing to discuss this issue in a sensible, civilized manner is welcome to mail me at [email protected]

VP Operations
Fortune Lounge

Well, that's a neat way out of a tricky situation. Ban me as well if you like, Casinomeister. Seanjohn might have chosen his words better, but his points are all fair.

It's been a pleasant suprise on this thread that no-one has tried to defend Fortune Lounge. They know what they're doing and if they won't change it they deserve only contempt.

p.s. though the 'no brains' comment was unfair - it's a well-thought out policy

 

[The Dude]

Well, that's a neat way out of a tricky situation. Ban me as well if you like, Casinomeister. Seanjohn might have chosen his words better, but his points are all fair.

It's been a pleasant suprise on this thread that no-one has tried to defend Fortune Lounge. They know what they're doing and if they won't change it they deserve only contempt.

p.s. though the 'no brains' comment was unfair - it's a well-thought out policy

There is no one getting out of a tricky situation - there is plenty going on behind the scenes. What is happening is that some posters feel it is acceptable to throw in a personal insult or two; this is what is not tolerated. You can make posts like this elsewhere - not here. And if posters fail to abide by this, then tsch!

 

[trick]

Looking back at the thread it is clear that it has been on the wrong side regarding language and namecalling. There is no excuse for this but it might be a hint that NETeller bonuses like this are a real annoyance for players in general. I remember a player posting about such a NETeller bonus arriving in his account while it was running in autoplay on some slot. Pretty hard to spot.

So, the not so proper language aside, there is still the question of why the NETeller bonus is designed specifically like it is when it from a players perspective easily can be mistaken for a WR trap designed to keep you from recieving a withdrawal that you thought you were cleared for? I'm not saying that this it what it is - all I'm saying is that this is what it could look like when it is designed the way it is. But maybe there is a good (technical?) explanation why the NETeller bonus is designed in this way?

BTW: It is good to know that "there is plenty going on behind the scenes", so we know the issue is not being ignored.

 

[Vesuvio]

Just wondering how things are going 'behind the scenes' here?

 

[KasinoKing]

Look before you leap!

I have read through all the posts on this thread, and have to mostly agree with the players. I too was 'caught out' by this Neteller bonus once before - but only once!
But I don't blame the casino - it was MY fault. (However I do still agree with above comments that this type of bonus is a kind of a trap - that's why it's always hidden in the small print).
This is a lesson for all new or experienced gamers:
ALWAYS READ THE BONUS TERMS & CONDITIONS FIRST!
If you are not 100% happy that you understand ALL the requirements, contact the casino & get it clarified. (Or don't play there).

And I TOTALLY agree with 'trick' - all Crypto casino's and many others (even Roman - remember them!), make it clear before you click the 'withdraw' button exactly how much they are going to allow you. (The new Will Hill Crypo software even tells you exactly how much more you need to wager to fulfill their bonus contitions!)
No-one can tell me it is beyond Microgaming's capabilities to add this to their banking screen, which begs the question: Why is it not there already?

(Please don't answer that - we already know!)

 

[Freudian]

This is one of the reasons I don't play at FL casinos anymore. Calling it a trap is correct. Hopefully practices like this will end up costing casinos more than they make from it.

 

[Ping]

Well, if you want 10% BONUS with NO WAGERING REQUIREMENT, come visit Link Removed (invalid URL)!!!



Ping

 

[KasinoKing]

Well, if you want 10% BONUS with NO WAGERING REQUIREMENT, come visit Link Removed (invalid URL)!!!

No thanks - regardless of wagering requirements - a 10% bonus is not even worth the effort of turning my PC on!

 

[MeganSpot]

This matter has not progressed since my complaint was registered with both the FL and Casinomeister (pitch a bitch) over two weeks ago.

This is not a complicated matter. Bogus T+Cs were invented in order to confiscate otherwise legitimate winnings.

These facts remain uncontested (I am happy to reproduce the exchange of emails where the bogus T+Cs were reiterated and emphasised by more than one PP customer service rep).

I trust this matter will be resolved shortly.

 

[bbooze]

I read this entire thread, and too completely agree with the players. Also.... if we aren't allowed to state our opionions within a forum like this, in an effort to inform and educate the people we feel a kinship with (the players), then where can we?

The couple posters who were thought too harsh in their wording were merely calling a spade a spade, I think that was agreed upon by all. I'll admit, Casinomeister has more internet gambling know-how in his finger nail than I have in my whole body; but it seems an unfair stance against players who are simply looking out for players.

Did FL stiff this person on a cashout for no reason? No. But they did use a ruse of sorts to insure that end.

 

[Stanford]

There will be no further responses to this thread in this forum.

Anyone wishing to discuss this issue in a sensible, civilized manner is welcome to mail me at [email protected]

VP Operations
Fortune Lounge

This matter is also being discussed at WOL. I thought Megan's point had been conceded and FL was looking into rewriting their TsCs - see that thread. So FL and Megan, what seems to be the hold up? CMeister, is this just taking a bit?

Stanford

 

[OBR]

I hope that players can get Platinum Play to change their policies. Maybe I can help in a small way as I run a couple of online casino portals.

Platinum Play has been one of my top recommended casinos for almost a year. I have played them many times in the past and everything has been great. I have never had a player complaint.

I have just removed Platinum Play from our top casinos lists. Their current bonus criteria and the advertising of bonus criteria do not meet our requirements for fairness.

I sincerely hope that things change for the better.

 

[Stanford]

Platinum Play has been one of my top recommended casinos for almost a year. I have played them many times in the past and everything has been great. I have never had a player complaint.

I have just removed Platinum Play from our top casinos lists. Their current bonus criteria and the advertising of bonus criteria do not meet our requirements for fairness.

I sincerely hope that things change for the better.

I also. I am very surprised this was not resolved by now. I am very appreciative when a portal insist on fairness and backs it up by delisting a casino. My hat is off.

Megan's issue is being discussed also at WOL. I am also surprised that apparantly someono at FL has been posting as a player in that thread - not very savery.

I hope to see resolution soon. FL is a long time favorite of mine.

Stanford

 

[fortunelounge]

This matter has not progressed since my complaint was registered with both the FL and Casinomeister (pitch a bitch) over two weeks ago.

This is not a complicated matter. Bogus T+Cs were invented in order to confiscate otherwise legitimate winnings.

These facts remain uncontested (I am happy to reproduce the exchange of emails where the bogus T+Cs were reiterated and emphasised by more than one PP customer service rep).

I trust this matter will be resolved shortly.

We are currently looking at making our Terms and Conditions more clear and we are investigating ways to make it easier for players to choose whether they wish to receive the Neteller bonus or not.

The calculation of your wagering requirement was absolutely correct and we certainly did not "invent" "bogus" Terms and Conditions to "confiscate" your winnings. I would appreciate it if you could clarify this statement.

The Neteller bonus is not a "trap" as you state as the wagering requirements are listed in the same spot where wagering requirements for all other bonuses are listed and were clear for you to see.

I would appreciate it if you could forward me the e-mails you refer to.

VP Operations
Fortune Lounge

 

[Vesuvio]

The wagering requirements are listed, but it's hard to argue the Neteller bonus isn't intended as a trap for anyone who doesn't read the t&c extremely carefully.

Perhaps just not giving the Neteller bonus along with other bonuses would solve most of these problems.

Or instead, rather than trying to make the terms clearer, you could consider just adding the Neteller bonus onto the standard bonus - so if someone receives a start-up bonus of $50 & a Neteller bonus of $5 then they could wager, say, 15x($55+deposit), rather than having to wager 15x(55+double the deposit). This happens at a number of casinos and would seem the much fairer option - no-one in their right mind (& who understood the terms) would actually choose to take up the Neteller bonus along with another bonus at present.

I still can't see why, if there's no intention to catch people out, you couldn't just return a cash-in to the player's account when they haven't met your complicated conditions. Confiscating the bonus & giving the player no chance of remedying the mistake just makes you look disreputable. Any chance of reconsidering this policy?

 

[GrandMaster]

The calculation of your wagering requirement was absolutely correct and we certainly did not "invent" "bogus" Terms and Conditions to "confiscate" your winnings.

I have to argue with this. The CS rep stated that you remove the bonuses in order of size, starting with the largest. This is not supported by the T&C, which state that WR have to be satisfied for each bonus in the order they were credited. If the WR are not satisfied, then you should remove bonuses in reverse chronological order, starting with the last one.

 

[largeeyes]

Any "bonus" with a WR of over 100x is not a "bonus". Simple as that.

 

[Stanford]

Grandmaster said:

"I have to argue with this. The CS rep stated that you remove the bonuses in order of size, starting with the largest. This is not supported by the T&C, which state that WR have to be satisfied for each bonus in the order they were credited."

I agree.

Vesuvio said:

"Or instead, rather than trying to make the terms clearer, you could consider just adding the Neteller bonus onto the standard bonus - so if someone receives a start-up bonus of $50 & a Neteller bonus of $5 then they could wager, say, 15x($55+deposit), rather than having to wager 15x(55+double the deposit). This happens at a number of casinos and would seem the much fairer option - no-one in their right mind (& who understood the terms) would actually choose to take up the Neteller bonus along with another bonus at present."

I agree with this also. Or as an alternative what was suggested on another board. Just make the bonus sticky with no further wagering requirements. It would still encourage neteller but as a sticky at the "bottom" of the chip stack - it really wouldn't cost much. Especially since it is a one time only bonus.

Wagering calculations are then always straight forward and the neteller bonus is *always* removed and there is no confusion.

Stanford

 

[clj7221]

The Majority of complaints on this board are mostly about FL casinos.What does that tell you?
And most of my posts are complaints against them to.Your best bet is not to play there. Try casino us that is one of the best casinos and if you ever have an issue with them they clear it up in no time.
I do not see Fl as a respectable casino. Unfortunately I have had to many experiences with them to know first hand that they do not respect there players. It took me a year and a half to get them to stop telemarketing me.

This is one of the reasons I don't play at FL casinos anymore. Calling it a trap is correct. Hopefully practices like this will end up costing casinos more than they make from it.

 

[GrandMaster]

Any "bonus" with a WR of over 100x is not a "bonus". Simple as that.

Give me $100,000 with WR 100xB and I will happily play it.

 

[jpm]

The Majority of complaints on this board are mostly about FL casinos.What does that tell you?
And most of my posts are complaints against them to.Your best bet is not to play there. Try casino us that is one of the best casinos and if you ever have an issue with them they clear it up in no time.
I do not see Fl as a respectable casino. Unfortunately I have had to many experiences with them to know first hand that they do not respect there players. It took me a year and a half to get them to stop telemarketing me.

It could be that they have the largest player base of any casino as well. Its a tough call. I do not think they are rogue casino, but they have some CSR issues that need to be resolved, as they've been going on for far too long. But they are one of the most reputable groups out there today imo.

Now as far as the neteller bonus, which I opted out of immediately, why not just do something very simple? MAKE IT AN OPT-IN BONUS. Then there's no 'trapped' players, or tricked players. You have to ask for it to get it, therefore you know what you are getting yourself into. And if you don't want it, you don't have to opt out before you can start playing.

 

[Stanford]

Now as far as the neteller bonus, which I opted out of immediately, why not just do something very simple? MAKE IT AN OPT-IN BONUS. QUOTE]

Good idea.

Stanford