Liquid casino bonus scam

[CasinoLackey]

Just thought I'd share.

These guys put out a Chistmas bonus of 100 pounds.
They tell you you have to play a certain amount to get the bonus, pretty good terms, nothing about it not being cashible
I got the bonus, but I can't play with it or cash it out.

So I email them to ask what's going on, this is the response:

Thank you for contacting us.
Regarding your bonus question we will like to inform you that the bonus
is not withdrawable but the winnings are you can only use the bonus to
play with.
Unfortunately we are experiencing technicals problems with the Xmas
bonus, so we do not have any time scales as to when you can play with your
bonus.

There's nothing in the terms about this so emailed them back,
Check out their response:

Thank you for contacting us again.
We would like to inform you that it is true ,it is not stated in the
terms and conditions on the website.That is why we of the support team
are available to provide our clients of information that are not on the
website.
We do apologize for this inconvenience and we will appreciate your
understanding on this matter.

Unbelievable. They haven't even told me what the terms of this bonus is, like if I lose it do I lose my money first or if it's no risk.
All I have to say is FRAUD.

[soflat]

You are referring to Liquid Club Casino, right?

That is operated by Elite Club Management / Luminar, which also operates Frontroom Casino. Both use the Chartwell software.

Anyways, they did basically the same thing to me thru Frontroom Casino.

I have been a customer at Frontroom since November, and received a 100GBP Christmas Bonus offer via email (the Frontroom bonus is open to current customers, wheras the Liquid Club bonus seems to be a sign-up offer). The Frontroom Terms and Conditions were exactly the same as its sign-up offer (copy and pasted), which was cashable. The only exception was the wagering requirements (10X versus 25X).

To make a long story short, I deposited for the bonus, played various games, lost a bunch, but figured that was ok because the bonus would make up for some of it.

When I completed the wagering requirement and found out it was a "Playable Bonus" rather than cash, I called customer service and emailed them too.

They told me basically the same thing: not cashable, they are having problems, they cannot veer from the bonus terms (which there are apparently some secret terms).

All bets come from your own funds first. So you have to lose all your own money before getting at the bonus chips. Even then, it is not clear if you can play with the Playable Bonus chips (my chips are "Held", or locked, now).

They have not bothered to change the bonus terms on the website despite being aware of how misleading they are for almost a week now.

[sonicboom]

A friend of mine got a letter from Liquid Club through the post advertising the new player £100 sign up bonus. He doesnt gamble but knows I do so showed it to me. I went to the website and saw the offer on the promos page and it was open to everyone: http://www.liquidclubscasino.com/lqc...erms-bonus.jsp

I deposited £100, wagered over £1k and waited 48hrs for the bonus. Nothing, so I E-mailed. Have been told you need to put in a promo code first! It does not, did not and never has said this ANYWHERE before on the website or original letter, if you check the link it still doesnt now. It is IMPOSSIBLE for anyone to know you had to do this. I fully met all other T&C. Can they do that? Put up one set of T&C then randomly add another and say thats why you dont count and cant have it?

I have asked if they will credit me despite not putting the code in first given that I couldnt have known you needed to put it in, and now they arnt responding to the E-mails (has been over 24hrs).

Any suggestions on what to do?

[jetset]

It looks as if an outfit called Elite Club Management (they also manage Elite Club Casino) in Curacao are the people either operating or re-selling Liquid Club on. The VP Business is a guy called Derek Purvis (dpurvis@eliteclubmanagement.com) who may be a useful channel to get this resolved if the casino is ignoring you.

It's powered by Chartwell, who will be useless as a complaint avenue due to their totally hands-off policies.

See also: http://www.casinovendors.com/VendorPage.cfm/102982.html

[sonicboom]

Just to update this, DO NOT PLAY HERE. They have agreed that the T&C did not include the need to add a bonus code but still wont credit the £100 as they say I had the opportunity to try again and play another 10x if I wanted!

Well I didnt want to because if I had I should imagine:
They then decline bonus because I used Neteller not my card, the T&C dont say this but they meant to, I can try again if I use my card,
So I use my card, they decline bonus because I played BJ, the T&C dont say you cant but they meant to, I can try again and play vid poker if I want,
Etc Etc Etc

There is no point having a T&C page if the casino just makes up other ones randomly and implements them retrospectively. I have PAB but no response yet and I dont expect a positive resolution. I would like to see this outfit put on the rougue gallery though as they are not to be trusted.

[caruso]

Originally Posted by jetset

It's powered by Chartwell, who will be useless as a complaint avenue due to their totally hands-off policies.

Is that right? Chartwell actually refuse any involvement with their licensees beyond collecting the license fee? Is this actually stated somewhere, or just your experience of them?

That is a supremely arrogant attitude to have if it's the case. If Chartwell licensees are screwing their customers Chartwell have a duty to pressurise them into making good or losing their license.

Looks like a potential ICE project, but I'd like confirmation of the above.

[Casinomeister]

Originally Posted by caruso

That is a supremely arrogant attitude to have if it's the case. If Chartwell licensees are screwing their customers Chartwell have a duty to pressurise them into making good or losing their license.

Both Jetset and I have met them in person together. Their attitude is that their licensees are good solid companies and that they don't need to intervene because of this. They have already done their due diligence.

I should just rogue the whole lot of them.

PABs are backlogged through Christmas - I'm nailing them as I can.

[Casinomeister]

This is from the Carib Sunshine case a couple of years ago. From Chartwell:

Unlike many other software suppliers Chartwell Technology is strictly a software development company and only license the use our products for a variety of online applications. We do not participate in any aspect of the daily operations of our customers business, which includes hosting, customer support, database and money management.

[jetset]

On at least four occasions over the past three years I have broached this subject with senior Chartwell people, and the response has always been the same - pretty much summarised in Bryan's post above.

Added to this, in mediations I have attempted through them there is either a flat refusal to get involved, or a wall of silence from this company.

I'd say that was a clear indication of an intention to remain hands off - a policy they have maintained with consistency over the years I have been in the business.

Pretty convincing even for *just* my personal experience, I'd say!

[caruso]

Thanks to both of you.

Their attitude is that their licensees are good solid companies and that they don't need to intervene because of this. They have already done their due diligence.

That's obviously fine while they ARE "good, solid companies". All companies are good & solid until they go down - 40+, Goodfellas etc etc. Additionally, being good & solid doesn't stop them from pulling the occasional fast one or behaving unethically, as has happened with some of the biggest operators out there over the years and as apparently is happening here. That they "don't need to intervene" because of an initial apparent clean bill of health is a total copout and plain WRONG. Since when did businesses not change, develop etc - for better or worse - after their inception? What a crock.

Added to this, in mediations I have attempted through them there is either a flat refusal to get involved, or a wall of silence from this company.

I never even heard of any Chartwell issues; the only licensees I've patronised - Victor Chandler and Coral - are all solid and fast payers even if the software is crap and buggy as hell. I had no idea about, or at least have no recollection of, any Chartwell issues. On this basis alone they should be at the very least officially not recommended, there being no backup in the event an operation going wrong or causing problems in some form or another - as it's now apparent to me has already occured - since Chartwell are clearly open about the fact that they have no interest in the business practices of their customers beyond their ability to stump up the license fee.