Altercation at CAP Euro

[Casinomeister]

...But, no matter. Within the next couple of weeks I'm sure Lou will apologize, and Michael will apologize, and CardSpike will turn out to be a misunderstanding, yadda yadda...and CAP and the GPWA will rent out one of the "coffee shops" in Amsterdam at the next conference and all differences will be bonged, I mean banged out...

I think you are trivializing this a bit too much. There are some serious issues that have been addressed, and a few others that still need to be dealt with.

The Cardspike and conflict of interest issues are serious. But that's something CAP needs to work out. If this is something that they want to do - that's their business. If they want to skirt around issues, and explain things with evasive answers - that's their business. It's up to webmasters and affiliate programs to make smart choices on their own and decide what or whom they wish to work with.

The drama that has excited everyone so much is really unnecessary and makes things a lot worse for people whose livelihoods are directly affected with this fiasco.

If the GPWA and CAP are willing to discuss things in an adult businesslike manner - why cut it down?

[lots0]

I don't know Bryan. I think this effects everyone in the business, not just CAP, PAP and GWPA.

The drama that has excited everyone so much is really unnecessary and makes things a lot worse for people whose livelihoods are directly affected with this fiasco.

I guess I don't understand who's income has been hurt, Besides Lou and Warren?

Like you said Bryan, Webmasters and Players will make their choices, but they all NEED unbiased information on which to base their decisions.

Deciding to take things 'undercover' only makes us all look bad.

[Casinomeister]

I guess I don't understand who's income has been hurt, Besides Lou and Warren?

I'm talking about the drama; most of the "drama" we've heard is BS (rumours and speculations). The problem is, that's what too many people seem to focus on - the drama.

BTW, when I mean livelihood, I'm meaning all aspects of one's business - not primarily income. So I include quite a few people into this equation.

[swampwitch]

If the GPWA and CAP are willing to discuss things in an adult businesslike manner - why cut it down?

Maybe because this isn't their first time at the rodeo? There's always drama between the two entities, and then they kiss and make up. Too bad if that's a trivialization on my part...it's the simple truth.

The players, and we affiliates...especially we non-superaffiliates...are better served by having more than one affy organization. For all intents and purposes, until this CardSpike fiasco, CAP and the GPWA were the same freaking organization. Monopolies suck, and believe me when I say I'm not the only small webmaster to have been screwed over by certain members of one organization, then joined a different organization in the hopes of more ethical treatment, only to find that said second organization is totally in bed with the first. There's no healthy competition in a monopolized industry, only kill or sell out.

So you'll excuse me if I'm a bit jaded, and yes, suspicious. I don't particularly want the two entities to get back to being the Amazing Mongo and His Parasitic Twin. History shows that within weeks everything will be back to the way it was.

If, in the long run, I turn out to be wrong, great. Great for the industry, great for the small guy. If I'm right, I'll just bask in my jaded self-righteousness in silence.

[jetset]

I think you are trivializing this a bit too much. There are some serious issues that have been addressed, and a few others that still need to be dealt with.

The Cardspike and conflict of interest issues are serious. But that's something CAP needs to work out. If this is something that they want to do - that's their business. If they want to skirt around issues, and explain things with evasive answers - that's their business. It's up to webmasters and affiliate programs to make smart choices on their own and decide what or whom they wish to work with.

The drama that has excited everyone so much is really unnecessary and makes things a lot worse for people whose livelihoods are directly affected with this fiasco.

If the GPWA and CAP are willing to discuss things in an adult businesslike manner - why cut it down?

I absolutely agree - if there was anything positive at all to come out of these embarrassing and downright shocking events it is the fact that the seriousness of the situation has at last apparently brought about the hopefully mature discussions that should have been taking place way back.

The CAP route forward will hopefully also be receiving more scrutiny from both within and outside the organisation - in this volatile and highly charged atmosphere all it will take to cause some major changes in a business sense would be for a few of the major programs and affiliates to start distancing themselves from the public and not-so-public happenings of recent months.

If CAP management haven't yet taken that on board they should not be in business at all.

What's needed now are calm and wise heads all around, with a focus on the ethical, professional and fair conduct of business.

That doesn't have to equate to a "monopoly" - there can be sensible competition without resorting to some of the shocking stuff that has come out in the wash over the last few months.

[lots0]

Bryan, I think it is unrealistic for some in the business to want to keep this quiet and undercover, after so many people have been screwed over by these guys.

As far as peoples business being hurt... well after all the dirty crap that has been going on for such a very long time, I think maybe their business should be hurt.

If a business is close enough to these guys to be hurt by all this 'Drama', maybe they made a bad choice and now they gotta pay the piper.

again just my 2 cents...

[Webzcas]

With regards this incident. Alex has issued an apology to Steven as has Lou I believe - http://www.gpwa.org/forum/526723-post135.html

This issue is IMO now a private matter and it is not helpful or healthy that we concentrate on it. It is up for the parties concerned to deal with.

What needs to be concentrated on is the CardSpike issue and the allegations made against CAP concerning CardSpike. I am waiting for the management of Affiliate Media to comment on the pretty damning evidence linking CardSpike with Lou and Warren. I guess though sometimes silence can speak a 1000 words.

No doubt, whatever happens we will not see an immediate reaction from the affiliate community - Affiliates and Programs. More likely a measured response will prevail over the coming weeks.

[lots0]

I guess I lump all these issues into one.
Cardspike and the Hotel incident as far as I'm concerned are all just part of the same bigger issue... Unethical and fraudulent behavior by someone that set themselves up as an Advocate.

[RobWin]

No doubt, whatever happens we will not see an immediate reaction from the affiliate community - Affiliates and Programs.

IMO, that's the sad part that most affiliates and programs connected to CAP are not willing to immediately stand up for the greater good of this industry regarding morals and also speak out and demand proper behavior and transparency from this organization. If enough of them would do this, then it could drastically effect the outcome of this mess for the greater good.

[spearmaster]

IMO, that's the sad part that most affiliates and programs connected to CAP are not willing to immediately stand up for the greater good of this industry regarding morals and also speak out and demand proper behavior and transparency from this organization. If enough of them would do this, then it could drastically effect the outcome of this mess for the greater good.

A number of affiliates have already done as you suggested. And a number of them are waiting for more details.

As for programs - many of them have contracts that they need to maintain - they cannot just breach those contracts.