PAB player status

[rouletteguy]

Just regarding my Q/A in ask the meister. If a player files a valid PAB against an accredited casino (green) and it's declined (crossed out) We should know if it was because the player's complaint wasn't valid or because the casino just said no. I'm going to just ASSUME it's because the casino's say no because it's been made pretty clear here that if a player gives a line of B.S. it'll be made public.

That therefore leads me to...... Valid complaint, uncooperative casino, Why isn't the casino criticized publicly for denying valid winnings?

players should know if PAB's aren't effective at accredited casino's.

[maphesto]

You can check old PAB:s here:

http://www.casinomeister.com/pitchabitch/index.php

It's not updated recently.

But when it comes to problems with accredited casinos the issues are often brought up here on the forum.

[maxd]

If a player files a valid PAB against an accredited casino (green) and it's declined (crossed out) We should know if it was because the player's complaint wasn't valid or because the casino just said no.

I realize your question was directed to Bryan, but I think I can chip in a bit here.

When you see a PAB marker with an 'X' all that means is that the PAB was not successful. It doesn't indicate validity of the PAB or fault on anyone's part. I think another way to read the 'X' is "not resolved in the player's favour" which can mean many things: the player was AWOL (disappeared after filing the PAB), the casino didn't respond, the casino is in The Rogue Pit, the case was decided against the player, the case was partially resolved but not to the player's full satisfaction, etc etc.

In theory the markers could be enhanced to indicate any number or things -- I have a few things of my own in mind -- but sometimes it's better to keep things simple. There are already plenty of people baffled by the meaning of the markers, that would only get worse if we tried to make them convey too much information.

And last but not least, if you want to know how a person's PAB turned out, or details thereof, you can always just ask them. That's going to give you a much clearer idea of what happened than the markers can possibly convey.

I'm going to just ASSUME it's because the casino's say no because it's been made pretty clear here that if a player gives a line of B.S. it'll be made public.

I'm not sure what you mean by "the casino says 'No'". Can you clarify?

In general though a casino saying 'No' is not a conclusion to the case, hence not a reason for an 'X' on the marker.

Also, FYI, the resolution of a given PAB case is generally not discussed on the forums. We handle hundreds of cases per year, only a handful are ever talked about on the forums.

In general info on the outcome of a case will only be posted if (a) the player had posted before the PAB was initiated, in which case posting is generally appropriate to show how things ended, or (b) when the player is unhappy with the PAB results and brings the issue to the forum _after_ the PAB process has been closed. In other words your assumption is incorrect, B.S. cases are _not_ automatically made public.

You can check old PAB:s here ... It's not updated recently.

The slip in updates is my fault. I let them get behind and they're a real b*tch to catch up on. That said I am working on getting them done and in to Bryan ASAP. The goal is to get caught up over the next few weeks.

[rouletteguy]

Chalk it up to ignorance on my part Maxd, So here you can set me straight. on where I'm wrong.

I assume a PAB is filed only because a casino won't pay. I personally wouldn't waste anyone's time on anything less.

I assume the PAB is successful if the money is paid.

It's a black and white no gray area line of thinking.

But then I saw people filing PAB's for other stuff, where there is a gray area
(casino T/C) so maybe there should be 2 seperate area's 1 for money and 1 for other issues.

I agree it would be too easy to over complicate the whole thing and create excessive paperwork but it would be nice to know who is filing valid PAB's and who is bitching just to start S*%T. But then you open up the whole privacy issue thing etc.

To hell with it Max If the PAB is over money and an accredited doesn't pay they go on the warning list or the rogue pit right? I guess that's good enough.

[maxd]

Chalk it up to ignorance on my part Maxd ....

Not ignorance at all, the PAB stuff can be complicated business. It's not unusual for Bryan and I to have to put our heads together to decide the best course of action with a given PAB. In my experience it's very much a case-by-case kind of job: as satisfying as it would be to fix hard and fast rules it just isn't realistic when it comes to the actual cases.

I assume a PAB is filed only because a casino won't pay.

As you've guessed it's not that simple, but in the simple cases it is more or less like you say: Player says "casino no pay", casino says "blah blah blah" and then pays, case closed. Player gets a PAB marker and we're done.

But then I saw people filing PAB's for other stuff, where there is a gray area ....

Absolutely! We get everything from "should I be worried?" to "I want to kill so-and-so casino person, what is their home address?" In short, it's all over the map, so assumptions can be very misleading.

If the PAB is over money and an accredited doesn't pay they go on the warning list or the rogue pit right?

Sorry, but that's not necessarily the way it goes. Did the player honestly represent their case against the casino? Were the T&Cs respected? What is the casino's beef against the player? If the casino is saying "bonus abuse" what are the details? Is this a repeat offender situation (casino or player)? Etc, etc.

Like I've said, it's seldom cut-and-dried. I realize that's not what people really want to hear but I've done about 1000 of these now and my experience is that you have to take them as they come and roll with it. It's know it's a cliché but each case is (usually) unique and has to be dealt with individually.

[Westland Bowl]

......The slip in updates is my fault. I let them get behind and they're a real b*tch to catch up on. That said I am working on getting them done and in to Bryan ASAP. The goal is to get caught up over the next few weeks.

I too have noticed the PAB Updates were behind but I know they are a lot of work to update. Perhaps you just need to provide an update for what went on in PAB land from just the past three months and start updating regularly from there. Going all the way back to the last update might be just too much to do just for the sake of updating. But now I just re-read what you wrote and noticed you mainly provide these statistics to Bryan? Well, in that case I guess Bryan will quit b*tchin' once the Pitch-A-B*tch Updates, which are a real b*tch to catch up on, are updated and the forum will quit b*tchin' about the Pitch-A-B*tch not being updated. Now I feel like I need to chew some Orbit gum.

[maxd]

Yeah, the monthlies are complied together to generate the mid-year and end-year summaries which are kind of a big deal for us, so the monthlies pretty much need to be done anyway.

I did a big catch-up earlier in the year, took a while but we got done what we needed done at the time. Hopefully I can pull that off again over the next couple weeks. Wish me luck.