Gaming Club (BelleRock) Summary Ban Unexplained & Uncertain Payout.

[BustedFlush]

Hi, unfortunately my first post is a complaint about BelleRock casinos. I have previously only joined accredited casinos via this site and thus I am surprised to be posting this. I am (was) a member of a few of their MG sites, and am slightly up on 3 and down on another, overall a few hundred up. They have been, prior to now, seemingly good with prompt payouts and friendly CS.
I recently tried to log into my Gaming Club account and was locked out. About 2 weeks before, I opened it, deposited and played for several hours eventually making a w/d which left me 100ish in profit. Received the w/d the following Thursday, and redeposited 20 that Thursday before I went to work in the morning. I played this for half an hour and stopped when I got to (for about the 4th. time) the cashout minimum of £50. I cashed out and went out.
Sunday I tried to log in to see if it had been 'processed' or was still 'work in progress' as MG banking does. I was locked out. I immediately contacted live support and was informed "All my BelleRock a/c's have been closed due to 'negativity being detected'.."
What on earth is that about? Straight away this breaks several terms of the accreditation status listed on here for casinos. Anyway, to save too much typing I enclose a (names removed) transcript of the chat:
R***S:
Hi. Welcome to Casino support. How can i help you today?

ME:
my account is locked!

R**S:
Hi ****

R**S:
Can you please confirm your phone number and email address for me please?

ME:
0***********

ME:
******@*****.com

R**S:
Excellent. I'm just getting your details for you now.

R***S:
which account are you referring to ******?

ME:
this one gaming club

R**S:
thanks

R**S:
One moment for me *****

ME:
hello

R***S:
Thanks for waiting for me *******.

R***S:
Casino management have detected negativity on your account and have therefore closed all of your accounts with us.

ME:
what does that mean?

ME:
helloi

R****S:
It means that casino management have made the decision to close your accounts and will not be re opening them

ME:
yes i know but why?

ME:
what about my w/d of 50 i made thursday AM?

R***S:
you will still get your withdrawal of £50. I dont have any further details on the closure

ME:
has it been processed yet?

R***S:
i'll just check for you now

R***S:
Yes. It was released on the 7th for you

ME:
thats impossible as i didn't w/d it until the 9th!

ME:
9th!

ME:
i don't mean the one of 400 i already got that i mean the one of 50

R***S:
sorry. My mistake. One moment please

R**S:
Sorry again. Your withdrawal of £50.** will be leaving us on Monday, but has not left yet.

ME:
so i will get it then?

R***S:
let me double check on that for you *****

R***S:
*******, the withdrawal has not left us yet. It will be down to casino management if the withdrawal will be released or not.

ME:
and i would like to know why i have been banned i havent won that much

ME:
bellerock are accredited casinos according to casinomeister and i didn't expect this.#

R***S:
As i said earlier *******, i dont have any reasons on your account as to why its closed. It was a casino management decision and thats all i know

ME:
so will they e-mail me to explain?

R***S:
Probably the best thing for you to do *******, is to email us and you will get a response that way.

R****S:
support@playersupportcentre.com

ME:
what's the point, as long as i get my 50 quid back i'm ok.

ME:
i'll have nothing to complain about or pitch-a-bitch about on casinomeister and that's it i'll never play online again as trust is gone now.

R****S:
ok. As i said earlier *******, it will be down to casino management as to whether you will or wont get your withdrawal. I will pass your details on to them but you wont hear from them until Monday at the earliest

The chat has ended.

The chat was abruptly ended. No explanation. Summary closures. No indication of whether I get paid or not. This cannot be right. Yes, I DID mention Casinomeister but only in the context I joined through the CM accredited list and for this fact expected in return some help on CM for my issues.
I state in my chat that I'm not bothered as long as I get paid, but with hindsight that's not strictly true; the summary and accusatory way in which I've been treated deserves some explanation on here. If this is the hassle I get from accredited casinos, God forbid I should join one that isn't.

As of yet I haven't been paid nor received any communication from them. I will, of course, update this should I be paid, in the interests of honesty and integrity.
There cannot be ANY justifiable circumstance under any rules or regs. whereby a casino can retain deposits AND payouts, as this is tantamount to theft. I hope this is not a path Gaming Club take.

[Nifty29]

Your deposit at the very least should be returned. The winnings are another story.

In my experience, casino groups pretty much only summarily close accounts when fraud, usually identity or multiple accounts etc, is detected. The fact that they gave you no opportunity to state your case usually means its a clear cut case.

I'm not accusing you of fraud, I'm merely stating what normally precipitates this kind of action.

You should contact the rep, and/or pitch a bitch here:

http://www.casinomeister.com/problems.php

I'm curious as to why you stated you didn't want to bother with a PAB though.....if I had my accounts closed for no reason I would be raising all kinds of hell....but then its never happened to me in 14 years.

[jetset]

As above - you could also lodge a complaint online with eCOGRA - I think this casino group is accredited by them.

There's also the licensing jurisdiction, which in this case is Gibraltar, if I recall correctly.

Plenty of options if you feel you have a good case.

[chuchu59]

They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Stating that negativity on the ops account was the culprit raises more questions than answers especially when live chat is unable/unwilling to elaborate. The decent thing to do would be for the casino, on locking the account, to send an email to the player informing him of the course of action and a reason for it. In addition, as the w/d was initiated prior to the lock the op should be paid in full unless there was fraudelent activity for the playing session(s) in question.

The OP should also refrain from mentioning casinomeister during the chat sessions as it seems there is exercising of undue influence to get desired results.

[chayton]

Hmmmm....well most online casinos have a term that states they can close your account for any reason (or no reason) at any time. That being said, I probably have 50+ casino accounts and although some of them I don't play much, I've never had a casino close an account on me.

Personally if it was me, I'd want to know what this 'negativity on my account' is about whether I planned to play there any more or not, because it might just affect my play at other casinos.

So my advice is, send a mail to support, and if you don't get a clear response, shoot a message to Cobus, maybe he can clarify.

[BustedFlush]

As of today still no communication nor payment of any amount. A Thursday w/d going on past w/d's would have been in my bank by now so obviously some payment avoidance going on now.

To answer a few points, in order:
Firstly PAB is an extreme last resort action usually, and as the first reply said, a more pertinent action would be to contact the rep, which I shall do hence. I wouldn't think PAB has a point, unless I don't get paid, even then the amounts are small. As for kicking up a storm for summary banning as the first reply states, it's like going to a pub and getting bad or rude service - as long as I got my pint and it was what I paid for, that's the end of the matter and I simply don't go back; there's plenty of other pubs and a letter to the management is not required.
Yes, I do wonder at the extreme ambiguity of the term 'negativity' - it's like being arrested by the Police and then asking why for only to be told 'for something or other'.
I have accounts (had) at a few BelleRock properties, nothing against any rules, and as far as I am aware not a duplicate at any single one. I have played at those accounts for a period of weeks with no hassle. None has asked for the document submission even when winning, so must be satisfied with my credentials. I have ALL the required card scans, ID and bills ready here to send by return of e-mail, I can even send a screenshot of my online banking statement showing my last Gaming CLub deposits and w/d of 400 (the one mentioned in the chat session and confirmed as paid by the chat rep.)
This is what is strange IMO - I could understand if I had already been asked for docs and failed to provide, or the veracity of the docs was questionable but I've had NO communication at all and prior to this nonsense deposited and received winnings with no hassle. I have fulfilled all bonus obligations at the properties. I have quit playing and w/d when ahead on most - maybe that's 'negativity'. We could speculate all day what the hell 'negativity' is supposed to mean. Did their software secretly switch my webcam on while I was playing and they decided I had the wrong colour sweatshirt on? Did they catch me downloading 'A$$ Ladies' in another window while playing? Did I pick my nose during a WildStorm (sorry MildDrizzle) feature?
All I do know is that I have been treated rudely in an accusatory fashion by an 'accredited' casino. I have had deposit taken , winnings not paid. I had a chat with an evasive rep.

As the last reply intimated, a casino's rules and t&c's could be precise'd in one short sentence. 'Once we have your money payout is discretionary.'

[chayton]

FWIW I shot a PM to Cobus and he said he'd be contacting the OP.

[vinylweatherman]

I have not heard this one before, but it sounds like the usual bullshit when they want to get rid of a winner. It can mean anything, and the vagueness is deliberate. They have suspicions, but no proof. Opening accounts so close together can have made them suspicious. Their other trick is to delay their withdrawal for 10 days all of a sudden. They pulled this stunt on me a while back, and that was the last deposit they saw from me. The lack of payment probably means they are pulling the same stunt on you, but pointlessly so, since you cannot be tempted to reverse the money and play it (which is why they try this 10 day trick on some players).

They also lied to Simmo when he asked the rep about this 10 day pending period when it first happened to a German player. When it later happened to me, they got found out and I was able to confirm this was a "secret" policy change, and that they had lied to Simmo by saying there had been no change to 10 day pending periods.

It later turned out that only some players had been affected, and they quickly backed down when this became public knowledge on the forum, and the German player was told he would no longer be on 10 day pending.

I also question their integrity after this experience, which is why I uninstalled Lucky Nugget after this episode. I did get paid on day 11, so it never went to PAB.

If they didn't ask for documents, but paid out initially, it is down to electronic ID checks with UK credit reference agencies. It is possible that the "negativity" is down to a problem with your ID on these credit files which at first they did not spot. Usually, it is about multi accounting, but in such cases casinos will say so, rather than hide behind vague terms like "negativity". In your case, the more likely problem is that your deposit methods do not link properly to your registration details, and they have a suspicion that there might be a problem regarding the money you are using which would only backfire weeks later. This has been known to happen when players deposit quite legitimately from joint accounts held with a partner or spouse. All the casino can detect is that the name and address on the source of the money is not an EXACT match to your ID.

The final explanation is good old "bonus abuse", but again casinos tend to say so, rather than beat around the bush.

If they pay up, you could forget it and look elsewhere, but if you worry that this "negativity" could end up on a shared industry database and prejudice your play elsewhere, you should PAB in order to get the matter cleared up, or at least pinned down more accurately so that you can make an informed choice about what to do about it.

BelleRock no longer have a "true" player rep, Cobus is the affiliate rep, and can only refer the matter through to the casino management.

[Nifty29]

I have not heard this one before, but it sounds like the usual bullshit when they want to get rid of a winner. It can mean anything, and the vagueness is deliberate. They have suspicions, but no proof. Opening accounts so close together can have made them suspicious. Their other trick is to delay their withdrawal for 10 days all of a sudden. They pulled this stunt on me a while back, and that was the last deposit they saw from me. The lack of payment probably means they are pulling the same stunt on you, but pointlessly so, since you cannot be tempted to reverse the money and play it (which is why they try this 10 day trick on some players).

They also lied to Simmo when he asked the rep about this 10 day pending period when it first happened to a German player. When it later happened to me, they got found out and I was able to confirm this was a "secret" policy change, and that they had lied to Simmo by saying there had been no change to 10 day pending periods.

It later turned out that only some players had been affected, and they quickly backed down when this became public knowledge on the forum, and the German player was told he would no longer be on 10 day pending.

I also question their integrity after this experience, which is why I uninstalled Lucky Nugget after this episode. I did get paid on day 11, so it never went to PAB.

If they didn't ask for documents, but paid out initially, it is down to electronic ID checks with UK credit reference agencies. It is possible that the "negativity" is down to a problem with your ID on these credit files which at first they did not spot. Usually, it is about multi accounting, but in such cases casinos will say so, rather than hide behind vague terms like "negativity". In your case, the more likely problem is that your deposit methods do not link properly to your registration details, and they have a suspicion that there might be a problem regarding the money you are using which would only backfire weeks later. This has been known to happen when players deposit quite legitimately from joint accounts held with a partner or spouse. All the casino can detect is that the name and address on the source of the money is not an EXACT match to your ID.

The final explanation is good old "bonus abuse", but again casinos tend to say so, rather than beat around the bush.

If they pay up, you could forget it and look elsewhere, but if you worry that this "negativity" could end up on a shared industry database and prejudice your play elsewhere, you should PAB in order to get the matter cleared up, or at least pinned down more accurately so that you can make an informed choice about what to do about it.

BelleRock no longer have a "true" player rep, Cobus is the affiliate rep, and can only refer the matter through to the casino management.

Ahhh Vinyl.....I see the keyboard is well rested.

It's nice to see your motto (newbs see below) is still close to your heart

("Typus infinitum" loosely translated as "There's nothing that can be said in 25 words that cant be said in 500')

[Jasminebed]

Gaming Club should be paying your current withdrawal. If they don't want your business after that, I don't think you have much recourse.

"Negativity" could just mean that you are not profitable for the casino, and they have decided you are not likely to be. Frequent small deposits and frequent small withdrawals generate a certain amount of processing fees and administrative costs. When you withdrew $400, you had the nerve to only redeposit $20, and then withdraw again when you had the minimum withdrawal amount available. Disciplined gamblers do not have the highest profit margin.

If you took a number of sign-up bonuses with the group in a relatively short period of time, they may consider you to be an "advantage player", a more polite term for bonus abuser.

Sometimes even the affiliate you join from can be a source of problems. If it is one that focuses on beating bonuses, you can be labelled as potentially undesirable from the get-go.

While I wish you success in getting to the root of this "negativity", casinos tend to be close-lipped about such matters.

If you have had credit card charge backs, even for non-gaming related matters, this could be a source of problems in the future as well.