inetbet Nightmare

[macster]

As it happens I was using email before you had been potty-trained

Really? We used one of the earliest available, even before the days of Pine and elm. What did you use? Also, you can find my name associated with a number of telecoms and Internet standards.

we're talking about the gaming industry so gaming industry experience is particularly relevant here.

Relevant yes, but does not seem to be enough, huh? Especially when an old and outstanding issue can't be solved. But I have come to expect this now (in the short time).....

Reminds me of a time when I was managing a number of clients in the US. Was told, "You can't add value, you will only tell us what we already know, we have been doing this for a long time", etc. Something along those lines. With a bit of digging, analytics and cost transformation, ended up saving them 500m over 3 years.

Potty-trained? LOL!!! Reveals your character, maxd - or lack thereof.

Jurisdictions And Age Limits: There was a case recently where a player signed up to a casino from not only a country where Internet gambling is illegal, but also as an underage player. She won - quite big too! She knew she was underage, but because the casino let her sign up and play, she thought it was okat to carry on. Obviously this raised moral obligation issues and the casino suffered big-time in PR terms, but the upshot of it was that the player did not receive her money, as per the letter of the law. So be sure that you are old enough to play at the casino...some have 18+ limits, others are 21+. Check first!

Multiple Accounts from The Same Household: Pretty much all casinos say that you can only have one account per household. Some relax this if you ask, but this is generally there to prevent "bonus abuse", a fraudulent activity rife among the idiots who spoil it for all of us. These people are the reason bonuses are so tough on players these days. There was recently a case where a casino, subjected to an angry complaint from one player who claimed they refused to let her cashout the winnings after meeting all the criteria, revealed that there were some 300 accounts set up from the same IP address with similar information! What was more amazing was that the player had needed to try 250 times before she won! Now that's the time to give up gambling!

The above excerpt was taken from Simmo's guide. So I ask again. Why can't ID verification be done at the outset? Why can't this be imposed on new players? Why have this "waiting-game" when it comes to withdrawals? How long ago was this guide written? Why was the player allowed to open "some 300" accounts? Did the online casino happily accept 300* deposits? LOL! Simple question. Are these online casinos obliged to pay out withdrawals? Why are such obvious and outstanding issues not sorted?

Re-read the two paragraphs - one can then get all the answers.

[P.V.]

Chill, good debate turning sour. Be cool!

This has been a dilemma for quite some time concerning doc's. Requesting doc's isn't the real problem here, it's the interaction during sending and receiving of the documents.

I'm sure this group is a fine place to play as many have said but there does appear to be many members concerned about the process of sending and receiving their documents. E mail isn't secure, now further problems with file size and fax is a dinosaur IMO. Honestly can't believe any OC would ask for doc's by fax especially ID pic's.

The only way to correct all of this is the following and I've researched this for quite some time before entering into this area.

1. Gaming site's need a secure system for uploading doc's. What I don't like about this, with each site you're uploading to multiple servers and sites when one secure site, system is sufficient. Less exposure.

2. There needs to be a way for you, the player to know when your doc's were viewed and approved and or denied by the site in real time and also a clear line of communication if you need to send further documentation. This delays withdraws, if not a loss of your money if you should continue to play waiting like the OP.

3. Max has shared that he even has problems with email for PAB's, so clearly email has problems.

The best solution is some guidance concerning doc sending, approval guidelines and this should come
from CM within his accredited requirements.

[maxd]

Really? We used one of the earliest available, even before the days of Pine and elm. What did you use? Also, you can find my name associated with a number of telecoms and Internet standards.

This belongs elsewhere. PM me if you really want answers to these questions.

Back to the topic: as previously mentioned the OP had emailed me comments on the chronology that was posted up-thread (here). I post those here for the sake of the discussion at hand (OP's comments in blue):

1.Sunday September 18 2011: OP to Casino: "I am sending you the verification form."
2.Monday September 19 2011: Casino to OP: request for missing info (incomplete verification form).

I contest this. Documentation was complete. They asked for MORE and FURTHER UNUSUAL things like proof of how I funded my Moneybookers account. I had already sent them my ID, Bill and fax form. Nothing was missing or incomplete. That is not true. I supplied them multiple times with this proof even though it was highly unusual request. That is important as part of the hold up.

3.Monday September 19 2011: OP to Casino: info sent, attachment size exceeds 10 mb.
4.Tuesday September 20 2011: Casino to OP: "attachments too large", request to reformat and resend.

WRONG! I sent the documents that VERY DAY! I sent them in 4 seperate emails titled "RE: Verification forms pt1, pt2, pt 3 and FINAL. " This was on the 20th after they told me my size was too large for one email. I checked the sizes and none of them were even remotely close to 10mb. On my last email I asked that they respond once they have approved all documents then I patiently waited. After hearing nothing I asked about them on the 26th again and again did not get a response.

5.Sunday October 02 2011: OP to Casino: "stuff was sent on 20th September, please confirm".
6.Monday October 03 2011: Casino to OP: "sorry, docs not received, please resend".

THEY FORGOT TO MENTION that on the 3rd AGAIN after they finally responded I sent all 4 emails each with one attachment and none of them even close to being too large AGAIN!!! That very day. After I sent all 4 separate emails I then sent off a 5th email that was a reply to earlier emails that they had sent saying they didn't receive telling them that I sent it again and asking for them to give reciept. AGAIN they ignored.

7.[between Oct 03 and Oct 11 OP accesses account, increases balance]
8.Tuesday 11 October 2011: OP to Casino: "WHY ARE YOU NOT ANSWERING ME?????", includes copies of msgs apparently sent on 03 Oct and 09 Oct.

RIGHT. I emailed them on the 9th and asked them what is taking so long and explaining that I had sent them in many times. AGAIN they ignore.

9.Tuesday 11 October 2011: Casino to OP: "haven't received anything from you since our message of 03 Oct" ... "If the file is too large it will be blocked and not received."

AGAIN THEY FORGET SOME BIG IMPORTANT DETAILS!!! I responded directly to them and said that I sent them yet again and that I sent them in 4 separate emails right after they sent me this message above so that they were surely not too large. They just totally ignored all of the document emails and all of the emails I sent asking about them. Including this one that they did not include in their false chronology.
ALSO! very importantly they forgot to mention that they ignored my PM also and still have not responded.

10.[OP again accesses his account, balance decreases]
11.Thursday 13th October 2011: OP posts "inetbet Nightmare" at Casinomeister

[vinylweatherman]

The 10mb+ email ARRIVED but the attachments were blocked.

The other 4 emails with single attachments that the OP claims to have sent DID NOT ARRIVE AT ALL. How can the casino respond to an email it doesn't receive in the first place. The OP needs to check with his ISP who can tell him what happened.

Either way, after inet asked for the docs to be resent in smaller format, the whole attachment blocking issue became irrelevant because there was nothing to BLOCK because they didn't get the email.

I could imagine its possible for the casino to miss or overlook one email - nobody's perfect - but FOUR? Are you really insinuating that they totally ignored all four emails just to delay his payment? I don't see any other way it could be the casinos fault....and that is a very serious accusation which I hope you have some evidence to back (apart from the op saying "I sent them")

Don't forget, the OP waited nine days to even begin using other means e.g Emily to find out what was happening. If I didn't have an answer in 24-48 hrs I would be PMing the rep here because a reasonable person would KNOW something wasn't right. Of course, if i was winning more in the meantime I might not bother.......

What planet are you on?

The CS at the average ISP would make any online casino CS look stellar in comparison. Ask my ISP, a HUGE company covering the whole country, has CS that wouldn't have the slightest clue how to address such a question. They wouldn't even understand it, let alone know what the problem was.

How do I know, I have contacted their clueless CS dozens of times over issues ranging from missing emails to the TV service. Their stock response is that email problems are ALWAYS down to the "recipient blocking your email, check with them".

No doubt, if this poster contacted his ISP to ask why his 10Mb email made it through, and the 4x 2.5Mb didn't, he would be told in no uncertain terms that the recipient's server had blocked his email, and would probably argue that since the 10Mb one actually got through, it was proof positive that his ISP was not blocking anything. We would then be right back to where we started.

When it comes to the argument about not wanting large files clogging up the system, it is the CASINO themselves that INSISTS that "images" are sent via email, so they should EXPECT that this will entail a great number of Mb of data coming through that particular route, and cater for it. If they don't want large image files going through the email, then provide an upload facilty on the website and/or the casino lobby in order to cut email out of the process. FTP based upload/download has no problems at all coping with files of this size, as it has been designed for this purpose, unlike email which was designed as a form of "digital letter", and was never expected to be used for bulk data transfer, hence all the problems that occur when it gets used for this purpose.

The lack of traceabilty within the email system means we can never know where the blame lies, so it is just as arrogant for the casino to assume that it must be the players' fault when their email fails to arrive as it is for the player to always blame the casino for anything that goes wrong.

These problems keep on cropping up because iNetBet are in denial that it could possibly be a problem at their end, so have not done anything about it. The intermittent nature of the problem means that it often clears itself with a "brute force" approach, such as repeatedly sending the same email until one makes it through.

If emails, and exact point of failure, could be determined exactly, I bet it wouldn't just be the players proved wrong.

[swampwitch]

Did the OP give a thought to faxing the faxback and docs? The fax number is listed on the page you need to go to download the faxback.

[Nate]

I have sent Inetbet verification documents in the past and never received a reply. I had deposited and didn't have a WD but wanted to get verified so I didn't have issues. I had to wait longer after I emailed them again to ask if they received it. They eventually replied and said they did not. The files were small because I DO NOT send large attachments as a general rule.

I never bothered asking again and later closed my account.

Nate

[macster]

This belongs elsewhere....

As are comments like "potty-trained". And more.

[vinylweatherman]

Did the OP give a thought to faxing the faxback and docs? The fax number is listed on the page you need to go to download the faxback.

This is even more archaic than email, and often leads to problems. Apart from this, who the hell has their own FAX machine at home. It would involve trying to find a public fax service, and most of these have shut down because the technology is obsolete. There have been complaints in the past where players have had to make several visits to a public fax service because when they get home and check, they are told to try again and again because of some technical problem or other. Because of this, advice has always been to use the email route, and forget about trying to fax anything. Unfortunately, in this case the email system cannot handle a data file that would normally be sent by a fax machine, nor it's newer JPEG equivalent it would seem.

It's not the players fault that the available systems are not fit for purpose. There are systems that ARE fit for purpose, and would work very well, but they have not been made available. Broadband internet is capable of transmitting a MOVIE between two parties without having a problem, and should cope with transferring a mere 10Mb in a few seconds, faster than email can transmit a one page letter.

Other casinos use email for documents, so why do we hear so much about problems at some, and virtually nothing about problems at others. The players are all going to have a similar range of facilities, it is the operators that will have a much larger variation in configurations, some of which clearly work better than others.

This should be an important consideration for new players when choosing a casino, and one that seems to get overlooked. The best approach is to get verified in advance, and refuse to buy in to the "do it now" atmosphere perpetrated by marketing that tries to get that first deposit out of you as fast as they can. If documents cause problems before deposits are made, the player can simply walk away, rather than struggle with the problem. Marketing like to get that first deposit in quickly because this is what they FEAR will happen. It is also theorised that CS are going to be making more of an effort to resolve a problem if the customer is not tied in. Once tied in, the customer loses the option to just walk away, and even if they decide to leave, they have to sort out the exit of their funds.

[Nifty29]

This is even more archaic than email, and often leads to problems. Apart from this, who the hell has their own FAX machine at home. It would involve trying to find a public fax service, and most of these have shut down because the technology is obsolete. There have been complaints in the past where players have had to make several visits to a public fax service because when they get home and check, they are told to try again and again because of some technical problem or other. Because of this, advice has always been to use the email route, and forget about trying to fax anything. Unfortunately, in this case the email system cannot handle a data file that would normally be sent by a fax machine, nor it's newer JPEG equivalent it would seem.

It's not the players fault that the available systems are not fit for purpose. There are systems that ARE fit for purpose, and would work very well, but they have not been made available. Broadband internet is capable of transmitting a MOVIE between two parties without having a problem, and should cope with transferring a mere 10Mb in a few seconds, faster than email can transmit a one page letter.

Other casinos use email for documents, so why do we hear so much about problems at some, and virtually nothing about problems at others. The players are all going to have a similar range of facilities, it is the operators that will have a much larger variation in configurations, some of which clearly work better than others.

This should be an important consideration for new players when choosing a casino, and one that seems to get overlooked. The best approach is to get verified in advance, and refuse to buy in to the "do it now" atmosphere perpetrated by marketing that tries to get that first deposit out of you as fast as they can. If documents cause problems before deposits are made, the player can simply walk away, rather than struggle with the problem. Marketing like to get that first deposit in quickly because this is what they FEAR will happen. It is also theorised that CS are going to be making more of an effort to resolve a problem if the customer is not tied in. Once tied in, the customer loses the option to just walk away, and even if they decide to leave, they have to sort out the exit of their funds.

You're still missing the point Vinyl.

It's not about what should be able to happen or what could happen if they did this or that......it's about what DID happen i.e. the 4 emails, along with some other assorted emails, were not received by iNetbet. The OP could find out from their ISP what exactly happened to the emails if they wanted to...I've done it before. It is also common sense that one needs to reduce the file size of docs before sending them, especially if there are multiple attachments.

I'm amazed that anyone would think the casino would deliberately ignore someone...unless of course they think that the casino is straight out lying, in which case they should offer evidence of such or apologise. My understanding was that it was unacceptable to make accusations such as this against operators (especially accredited ones) in the forum...?

[swampwitch]

Yes, faxing is a pita for some people. But if I was having as much trouble as the OP claims, I'd have still given it a shot. YMMV.